ParanetOnline

The Dresden Files => DF Spoilers => DF Reference Collection => Topic started by: parthagenon on January 12, 2011, 01:57:54 AM

Title: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: parthagenon on January 12, 2011, 01:57:54 AM
Unsolved Mysteries Version 2.0

The new, shiny list of mysteries!  The format is shamelessly ripped from Serack’s WOJ sticky (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,21772.msg947669.html#msg947669), so I won’t go into detail on how to browse.  And if you haven’t already acquainted yourself with said WOJ thread, drop everything, go there immediately, and don’t come back until you’ve read through the entire thing.

Note I: The replies are much more in-depth than the original post, and may be a bit redundant.

Note II: One asterisk next to a question means that either there is enough information for a pretty solid guess towards the answer, or that the question is likely to be addressed in a short story (and is thus probably nonvital to the main plot)

Note III: I'm too tired to go through and catch mistakes at this point, so if a question looks like it should be added/moved/deleted/shifted in or of the major mysteries, let me know!

Navigation

Major Mysteries by Book

Storm Front:
-Who taught Victor Sells the heart-ripping curse?

Fool Moon:
-Who gave the FBI agents the hexenwulfen belts* and why?
-How did Malcolm Dresden die?

Grave Peril:
-What were Cowl and Kumori doing at Bianca's party?
-What is the Athame, and why did Bianca give it to Lea?
-Why is Winter so interested in Molly?

Summer Knight:
-Who compromised the defenses at Archangel?
-What caused Aurora to go mad?

Death Masks:
-Who is going to wield Fidelacchius?*

Blood Rites:
-How is Lord Raith protected from magic, and does it have to do with his red earring?*
-Why was Maggie Sr. with Lord Raith?

Dead Beat:
-Who are Cowl and Kumori?
-Who is summoning Outsiders, and why are they in league with the Red Court?

Proven Guilty:
-Why did Mab bring Molly into Arctis Tor?
-What happened at Arctis Tor?
-What exactly did the Athame do to Lea, and how did Mab cure her?
-Who fixed Little Chicago?
-Who set Molly up at Splattercon!!!?

White Knight:
-Why is Cowl working with the White Court dissenters?
-Is Lash gone for good?
-What are the special circumstances of Harry's birth and their ramifications?
-Who sent the ghouls to Camp Kaboom?
-Who/What is the Circle?

Small Favor:
-Why did Uriel give Harry Soulfire?
-Who has Thorned Namshiel's coin?
-What is the significance of Demonreach?
-Where does Demonreach correspond to in the nevernever?
-Who is going to wield Amoracchius?
-How was Mab wounded?

Turn Coat:
-Who is Peabody's accomplice?
-Who was Madeline's contact?
-Who is on the Black Council?
-Who is on the Grey Council?
-Who hired Shagnasty?
-What is the mantle Ebenezer is considering for Harry?*
-What is causing Harry's headaches?

Changes:
-Who killed Harry/had Harry killed?
-What will be Harry's new relationship with Mab?
-Who hired Stevie D.?
-Why is Odin helping Harry?
-What is the connection between the Red Court bloodline curse and Victor Sells?
-Whose female voice does Harry hear at the end?
-What will happen to the Red Court power vacuum?

Ghost Story: (Beware of Spoilers!)
(click to show/hide)

Short Stories:
-What are the Fomor up to?
-What is Marcone's real name?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: parthagenon on January 12, 2011, 01:58:52 AM
Specific Characters, Places, and Objects

Harry and Lash (I'm treating Lash as a separate entity from Lasciel)
-What to people see when they soulgaze Harry?
-Who calmed Harry down outside Victor’s house?
-Who hit Harry’s car?*
-Who cast the spell that stopped Harry from entering the screening room?
-What are the special circumstances of Harry’s birth and their ramifications?
-Is Lash really dead?
-Why did Uriel give Harry soulfire?
-Why did Harry find Demonreach familiar, and what role will it play in his future?
-What is the mantle Ebenezer is considering for Harry?*
-Who killed Harry/had Harry killed?
-What will be Harry’s new relationship with Mab?
-Why is Odin helping Harry?
-Whose female voice does Harry hear at the end?
-What is causing Harry’s headaches?
-Why did Mouse choose Harry?

Molly
-Why is Winter (Lea) so interested in Molly?
-Why did Mab bring Molly into Arctis Tor?
-Who set Molly up at Splattercon!!!?
-Is Molly going to go warlock?
-What will happen to Molly now that Harry is presumed dead?

Maggie Sr. and Malcolm Dresden
-What relationship did Lea have with Maggie Sr?
-How did Malcolm Dresden die?
-Who/What was Malcolm Dresden?*
-What does Martha Liberty know about Maggie Sr.?
-Why was Maggie Sr. with Lord Raith?
-With what did Ebenezer trust Maggie Sr.?
-Why was Maggie Sr. going to Hell, and how did she escape?*
-How was Maggie Sr. connected to the Outsiders?
-How was Maggie Sr. connected to Nicodemus?

Mab and Winter
-Why is Winter so interested in Molly?
-Why does Mab want Harry as her Knight?
-Why did Mab bring Molly into Arctis Tor?
-What happened in the attack on Arctis Tor?
-How did Mab cure Lea of the Athame’s influence?
-Has the Athame affected Mab?
-How was Mab wounded?
-What was Mab’s goal in interfering?
-What will be Harry’s new relationship with Mab?
-How did Bob get on Mab’s bad side?*

Lea and the Athame
-What relationship did Lea have with Maggie Sr.?
-What is the Athame, and why did Bianca give it to Lea?
-Why did Lea burn Thomas when she kissed him?
-What exactly did the Athame do to Lea?
-What deal with Lea make with Odin?
-How did Odin and Lea manipulate the events of Changes?
-Who held the athame before Bianca?

Demonreach
-Where does Demonreach correspond to in the Nevernever?
-Why did Harry find Demonreach familiar, and what role will it play in his future?
-What was the shack on Demonreach, who built it, and how/why did it repel Shagnasty?
-How was/is the (singular) Warden associated with Demonreach?
-How is the Gatekeeper associated with Demonreach?

Titania and Aurora
-What caused Aurora to go mad?
-What is the relationship between Titania, Lily, and Fix?
-Why did Titania send the Gruffs after Harry?

The Gatekeeper
-Why is the Gatekeeper helping Harry?
-What exactly is the Gatekeeper’s job?
-How does the Gatekeeper’s prescience work, and how powerful is it?
-How is the Gatekeeper associated with Demonreach?

Marcone and Persephone
-What is Marcone’s real name?
-Why is Vadderung helping Marcone?
-What is going to happen to Persephone?
-How much influence does Marcone now have in the supernatural world?

Odin
-Why is Odin helping Marcone?
-Why is Odin helping Hary?
-How did Odin and Lea manipulate the events of Changes?

Ebenezer and the Blackstaff
-What was Kincaid’s previous experience with Ebenezer?
-What is the mantle Ebenezer is considering for Harry?*
-How/from whom did the White Council get the Blackstaff?

Cowl and Kumori
-Who are Cowl and Kumori?
-What were Cowl and Kumori doing at Bianca’s party?
-How did Cowl know about Bob?
-How is Cowl associated with the Red Court?
-Was Cowl the one to summon the Outsiders in Dead Beat?
-How did Cowl survive the failed Darkhallow?
-Why is Cowl working with the White Court dissenters?
-Why does Cowl have command of the super-ghouls?

Others
-Who/What is Mac?
-Why was Ferrovax at Bianca’s party, and what did he receive?
-Who are the Jade Court Vampires, and what are they doing?
-Who is Drakul, and is he involved?
-How is Lord Raith protected from magic, and does it have to do with his red earring?
-Who/What is Kincaid, and what does Harry's Sight vision of him signify?
-How did Mavra get the pictures of Murphy?
-What were the Merlin’s three plans to wipe out the Red court?
-How powerful/what exactly is Mouse, and why did he choose Harry?
-Why did Mavra want The Word of Kemmler?
-Is Corpsetaker still alive?*
-Who was/were Lasciel's previous host(s), and were they significant?
-What is the relationship between the Swords and royal blood?*
-Why did Nicodemus have Lasciel's coin, when Lasciel does not traditionally work with Anduriel?
-Who did Morgan lose in the attack on Archangel?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: parthagenon on January 12, 2011, 02:01:10 AM
Organizations

The White Council
-How fractured is the White Council?

The Black Council
-What is the Black Council?
-Is there a Black Council?
-How powerful is the Black Council, and how much were they involved in recent events?
-Who is on the Black Council?
-What is the goal of the Black Council?

The Circle
-What is the Circle?
-Is the Circle the ‘proper’ name for the Black Council?
-How is Cowl affiliated with the Circle?
-What is the goal of the Circle?
-How is the Circle associated with Outsiders?

The Grey Council
-Who is on the Grey Council?
-Why did the Grey Council help Harry in Changes?
-Is Ebenezer the leader of the Grey Council?
-Is Harry part of the Grey Council?

The Red Court
-How was the Red Court’s bloodline curse related to Victor Sells’ curse?
-Was the Red Court involved in Bianca’s party, and the gifts given?
-Is the Red Court entirely extinct?
-What happened during the blackout after the fall of the Red Court?
-Are the Red Court vampires in the Erlking’s hall dead as well?
-How was the Red Court associated with Outsiders?
-How was the Red Court associated with Cowl, Kumori, and the Circle?
-What will happen with the power vacuum the Red Court left behind?
-What happened to the original Mayan gods, assuming they exist(ed)?

Other
-What are the Fomor up to?
-What are the Jade Court vampires doing?
-With all the chaos in the Winter Court, is Summer suffering from corresponding excitement?
-How powerful were the Black Court, and what are they doing now?
-Who is in charge in Hell?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: parthagenon on January 12, 2011, 02:02:01 AM
Whodunit?
-Who taught Victor Sells the heart-ripping curse?
-Who calmed Harry down outside Victor’s house?
-Who gave the FBI agents the Hexenwulfen belts* and why?
-Who compromised the defenses at Archangel?
-Who is summoning Outsiders, and why are they in league with the Circle/Red Court?
-Who hit Harry’s car?*
-Who sent the Scarecrow after Glau, and why?
-Who set Molly up at Splattercon!!!?
-Who fixed Little Chicago?
-Who cast the spell that stopped Harry from entering the screening room?
-Who sent the ghouls to Camp Kaboom?
-Who has Thorned Namshiel’s coin?
-Who was Peabody’s accomplice?
-Who was Madeline’s contact?
-Who hired Shagnasty?
-Who killed Harry/had Harry killed?
-Who hired Stevie D.?
-Whose female voice does Harry hear at the end?

Miscellaneous
-Who is going to wield Fidelacchius?*
-What happened in Hawaii?*
-What were the Merlin’s three plans to wipe out the Red Court?
-Who is going to wield Amoracchius?
-How do the Laws of Magic work?
-Why didn't Mouse bark and alert the residents during the fire in Changes?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: parthagenon on January 12, 2011, 02:03:13 AM
***Recent Updates***
I'm going to turn this into a permanent log of updates, for bookkeeping purposes.

3/21/11- Added:
-Who is in charge in Hell?

3/11/11- Added:
-Why didn't Mouse bark and alert the residents during the fire in Changes?

3/7/11- Added:
-Who/What is Kincaid, and what does Harry's Sight vision of him signify?
-How did Mavra get the pictures of Murphy?

3/4/11- Added Ghost Story questions, under a spoiler tag.

2/16/11- Added:
-How powerful were the Black Court, and what are they doing now?

2/14/11- Added:
-How was Maggie Sr. connected to Nicodemus?

2/13/11- Added:
-How was Maggie Sr. connected to the Outsiders?
-How do the Laws of Magic work?

1/20/11- Added:
-What happened to the original Mayan gods, assuming they exist(ed)?
-What do people see when they soulgaze Harry?
-Why was Maggie Sr. going to Hell, and how did she escape?*

1/17/11- Added:
-Who did Morgan lose in the attack on Archangel?
-Was Cowl the one who summoned the Outsiders in Dead Beat?
-Why does Cowl have command of the super-ghouls?

1/14/11- Added:
-Who held the athame before Bianca?  (The RPG mentions that it isn't the athame itself that was dangerous, but it's former wielder.
-Who was/were Lasciel's previous host(s), and are they significant?
-Why did Nicodemus have Lasciel's coin, when Lasciel does not traditionally work with Anduriel?
-What is the relationship between the Swords and royal blood?*
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Ms Duck on January 12, 2011, 02:21:52 AM
so how many of those can I throw my famous theory at, before it's duck season?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: parthagenon on January 12, 2011, 02:23:21 AM
so how many of those can I throw my famous theory at, before it's duck season?

All of them? :o  *runs and hides behind couch*
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Landing on January 12, 2011, 02:29:32 AM
Just you watch Ms Duck is going to come up with a all encompassing theory that will cover every single one of the mysteries listed.   ;D
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Skip6235 on January 12, 2011, 02:35:25 AM
How about mentioning more about how we know almost nothing of the Summer court, but a lot has happened in Winter. Stuff like:

Was there a similar attack on Summer as the one on Arctis Tor?
Is (was) there someone who owed favors to Titania like Harry owed favors to Mab?
Why didn't Summer attack Winter after an obviously costly battle for Winter at Arctis Tor?

Also, about Mab:

Is Mab really going crazy?
Is Mab being leaned on by the Black Council/Circle?
Is Mab ON the BC/Circle?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Serack on January 12, 2011, 02:59:49 AM
Parth,
Your comments about the WoJ sticky made me Lol.  I'm so familiar with it that I was surprised that someone might describe it as so... riveting. 

Gratz on your 100th post, and it was done compiling this cool thread!
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Ms Duck on January 12, 2011, 03:05:11 AM
wow, 100 posts ? awesomesauce !

Oo


ooooooooooooooooooooooooooh  ;D
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Cyberchihuahua on January 12, 2011, 03:06:46 AM
so how many of those can I throw my famous theory at, before it's duck season?


Wabbit season!


http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,23577.0.html (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,23577.0.html)
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Serack on January 12, 2011, 03:13:44 AM
Oh my... Now I think I see why you (Parth) made that recommendation at the beginning of the OP...

Also, about Mab:

Is Mab really going crazy?

Quote from: jimbutcher
Quote from: Persephone
But the thought that really hit home, especially considering the intensity of her wrath in the final scene at the church...
Mab's not going crazy... Mab's been wounded.

Woot. :)  I love it when you guys work things out!

Oh, and Mab's not using a mouthpiece because she's incapable of speech.  She could talk all she wanted--as long as she didn't mind killing the people she was trying to communicate with.  Suffice to say that the whole "words can never hurt me" thing just doesn't apply to angry Faerie Queens. :)

Jim

I actually had that WoJ linked under the title:
Mab not Crazy but injured (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,10920.msg455156.html#msg455156)

BTW, Parth, if you do maintain this, I recommend that you make regular update replies outlining what new "mysteries" have been added so that those of us that are revisiting can get a synopsis of what's new.  Maybe even start the update with something like

***New Update***

Edit:  sneaks off to add that heading to his WoJ sticky updates
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: parthagenon on January 12, 2011, 03:44:57 AM
Edit: Oops, accidentally erased the wrong post...

Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Mcpoppin on January 12, 2011, 04:04:50 AM
This looks like a job for Histories mysteries!!! dun dun duun dun dun
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Serack on January 12, 2011, 04:16:55 AM
Your WOJ thread is, on its own, responsible for eating at least 50% of my DF thought processer.  In fact, it probably ate even more while I was compiling this, since I ended up deleting at least a dozen questions from my original (mental) list due to the spontaneous recollection of various WOJs.

I didn't make the material I just compiled it.  One of the main reasons why I did so was to make it easier to theorize, both for me and for anyone else who choses to use it :)  So I'm glad it helped you in this endeavor.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: parthagenon on January 14, 2011, 01:31:34 AM
***New Update***

Finally got around to reading a friend's copy of the DFRPG, and picked up some new questions.

Added:
-Who sent the scarecrow after Glau, and why?
-Is Corpsetaker still alive?*
-Why is the Gatekeeper helping Harry?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Linamar on January 14, 2011, 05:00:18 AM
Here's not so much of a mystery, as an interesting tidbit:

In Dead Beat, Lash is able to recall the text of the Erlking book perfectly.  But Harry never read it before Corpsetaker stole it.  So one of her previous hosts must have read it.  And Harry mentions that Wizard Peabody only published it about a century ago.  That means Lasciel was running around sometime in the last 100 years.  I wonder if we're going to see anything that she had a hand in?

And just to keep this as a mystery post, the question would be, who was Lasciel's last host, and who brought her down?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: parthagenon on January 14, 2011, 06:31:44 AM
Sounds interesting- Added!
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Brackenfur on January 14, 2011, 01:55:42 PM
Didn't Harry quickly page through the book, relying on Lash's ability to read it back to him? Like she did with Thomas's board?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: parthagenon on January 14, 2011, 03:05:47 PM
I don't think so- at that point, he still thought Lasciel's projection was an actual woman named Sheila.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: OZ on January 14, 2011, 03:32:44 PM
Quote
Didn't Harry quickly page through the book, relying on Lash's ability to read it back to him? Like she did with Thomas's board?
 
 
 
I thought this was the case as well. I guess I will have to quit being so lazy and go look it up.....later.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Joefoe on January 14, 2011, 06:06:10 PM
No he had just found out that Sheila was Lash. He knew she had photographic memory and did a quick scan of every page, right after that scene he raises Sue and goes beats down the corpsetaker
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Landing on January 14, 2011, 10:06:42 PM
Lash recalled the Word of Kemmler for Harry with photographic memory not the Erlking book, two different books people.  ;D
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Lash Dresden on January 14, 2011, 10:09:00 PM
Lash recalled the Word of Kemmler for Harry with photographic memory not the Erlking book, two different books people.  ;D
She recalled specific info from Peabody's Erlking book so Harry could summon him and keep him trapped in a circle in Murphy's back yard to keep anyone else from summoning him. 
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Landing on January 14, 2011, 10:14:33 PM
excuse me, i misworded my post I meant to say she recalled the word of kemmler after harry read it with photographic memory not the erlking book which she recalled as Shelia without harry ever reading it. they are two different books and two different times she remembered them. I try to resolve the confusion and only add to it by leaving out key words.  :P
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Shevik Muppet on January 14, 2011, 11:36:59 PM
Thought of a new one:
What's the deal with the famous historical warrior kings and the swords being wielded by their decedents?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: parthagenon on January 15, 2011, 12:10:28 AM
Thought of a new one:
What's the deal with the famous historical warrior kings and the swords being wielded by their decedents?

Added, with an asterisk because Harry already theorized about them being tied to responsibility.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: LogicMouseLives on January 15, 2011, 02:05:50 AM
Here's not so much of a mystery, as an interesting tidbit:

In Dead Beat, Lash is able to recall the text of the Erlking book perfectly.  But Harry never read it before Corpsetaker stole it.  So one of her previous hosts must have read it.  And Harry mentions that Wizard Peabody only published it about a century ago.  That means Lasciel was running around sometime in the last 100 years.  I wonder if we're going to see anything that she had a hand in?

And just to keep this as a mystery post, the question would be, who was Lasciel's last host, and who brought her down?

Not the case, in fact. Harry reads through the Earlking book the night of his first  visit to B.O.B. (Bock Ordered Books), just before he falls asleep and has the dream about his dad. This was after Sheila introduced herself, but before he discovered who she was. In fact, later on (sitting at Murphy's kitchen table, talking about the possibility of summoning the Earlking using something in the book) there's this exchange between Harry and Butters:
Quote from:  Dead Beat PB page 251
"I have to figure out how to call up the Earlking," I said.

"Is that why everyone wanted that book?"

"Apparently."

"But you had it. Heck, you read it."

In fact, that's the same conversation where Butters' comment "It's too bad you don't have a photographic memory," just a few lines further on, leads Harry to realize that Sheila could help.

So no, she didn't necessarily have to have read it before, but to keep the consideration alive, I'll point out that if she hadn't previously read it through someone else's eyes, she was taking something of a risk in claiming to know it before Harry did. What if he hadn't?

LML

By the way, really cool idea, parthagenon!
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Skip6235 on January 15, 2011, 02:27:44 AM
Actually, the part that bothered me the most about Sheila (besides the fact that she turned out to not be real just when I was all ready for shipping!) was that she knew where the Earlking book was on the shelf, and that there were 2 copies but someone had bought one already. How did she know that, without Harry knowing?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: parthagenon on January 15, 2011, 02:29:49 AM
Looks like we all got our text recall wrong.  Thanks for straightening us out, LML!  I'll leave the question as it is for now- "Who was/were Lasciel's previous host(s), and were they significant?" because we still don't know, although it's not a particularly pressing question at the moment.  Actually, I'll add the question "Why did Nicodemus have Lasciel's coin?" to the list as well, since it was mentioned that Lasciel doesn't usually work with Anduriel.

Actually, the part that bothered me the most about Sheila (besides the fact that she turned out to not be real just when I was all ready for shipping!) was that she knew where the Earlking book was on the shelf, and that there were 2 copies but someone had bought one already. How did she know that, without Harry knowing?

She probably used Harry's eyes, and spotted the book.  Harry saw it, he just didn't notice it, the same way Lash was able to recreate Thomas' room in WN despite Harry not actually noting any detail.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Joefoe on January 15, 2011, 03:09:22 AM
and harry has noted that he had been in the cage  a few times recently
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Phaeton Seraph on January 15, 2011, 08:07:27 AM
I had thought it was clear that Molly was taken to Arctic Tor so that Harry would assault it so that Mab could force her own hand back to where she wanted it, despite some outside influence, said outside influence being the reason she was so angry she had her kitty talking for her for so long....



Did you include the question of why Harry smelt Hellfire at Arctic Tor?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: parthagenon on January 15, 2011, 04:59:29 PM
We knew that Mab wanted Molly and Harry at Arctis Tor, but we don't really know why.  As for the Hellfire, I just have a broader question of who attacked Arctis Tor.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: cass on January 15, 2011, 08:30:55 PM
And why they attacked it.
The Denariians have to have been around long enough and clued in enough to know that attacking Mab/Arctis Tor would be a spectacularly bad idea.
(Granted, Harry et al. did it-- but they had the help of Summer. Explicitly. And the implicit support of Maeve.)

Maybe the Denariians thought they would have help from Summer?

Then there's the question about how deep the connection runs between the Courts-- yes, if one Court moves to Chicago, the other must follow, but that's fairly minor and superficial.  But what if one Queen becomes indebted or somehow restricted-- must the other becomes so as well?  If Mab goes nuts, does Titania go nuts as well? Is she obligated to at least act nuts?

Basically, if Mab is cut, does Titania bleed?  I would think not, because Summer has switched queens at least once and Winter has not (and because Maeve was unaffected by the change in Summer Lady).  On the other hand, however, it's a great piece of misdirection if we're all looking for who injured Mab, but the cause of the injury is actually something done to Titania.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Shevik Muppet on January 17, 2011, 01:53:37 AM
One more:
What is it that Mab has against Bob? In GP Harry invivtes a reluctant Bob to return to the "homeland" though he doubts Mab will have forgiven Bob. Bob backs down fast, scared.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: nthnclls on January 17, 2011, 02:30:55 AM
This is just a ridiculously long list of mysteries.  Btw, did we ever find out who gave the belts to the werewolves?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Ms Duck on January 17, 2011, 02:56:24 AM
One more:
What is it that Mab has against Bob? In GP Harry invivtes a reluctant Bob to return to the "homeland" though he doubts Mab will have forgiven Bob. Bob backs down fast, scared.

this one may have been solved, then unsolved.

I remeber a quote from the orignal board, in which somone asked JIm, and he replied ' she found out he was having fun with three mortal sheppardesses'..but I can't find it. It got bandied a round a lot tho, so I think it may be correct.

either way, we may found out in the enxt book, as Bob is on the menu.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: parthagenon on January 17, 2011, 07:44:21 AM
This is just a ridiculously long list of mysteries.  Btw, did we ever find out who gave the belts to the werewolves?

The DV is a mysterious place!  ;D 

So far, the general consensus has been that the Erlking is the most likely culprit for the hexenwulfen belts, but we're not sure.

One more:
What is it that Mab has against Bob? In GP Harry invivtes a reluctant Bob to return to the "homeland" though he doubts Mab will have forgiven Bob. Bob backs down fast, scared.
I remeber a quote from the orignal board, in which somone asked JIm, and he replied ' she found out he was having fun with three mortal sheppardesses'..but I can't find it. It got bandied a round a lot tho, so I think it may be correct.

I think the question is already on the list, but I'll add an asterisk to it for now.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: nthnclls on January 18, 2011, 12:11:31 AM
The DV is a mysterious place!  ;D 

So far, the general consensus has been that the Erlking is the most likely culprit for the hexenwulfen belts, but we're not sure.

ok, thanks.  That one's been bugging me, lol.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: parthagenon on January 18, 2011, 05:06:40 AM
Thought of a new one- Who did Morgan lose in the attack on Archangel?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Thanatos on January 18, 2011, 05:49:06 AM
I recently learned of the doctrine of the "wandering Jew", and came here to see what theories people may have connected to it.  I was surprised to find only two, but perhaps it's just that obscure.  

I'm not a religious person myself, and despite having read the bible, the attempted indoctrination of my childhood was not catholic, so I'd never heard of this odd bit of doctrine that states some random guy wandering by as Jesus spoke "verily I say unto you, there be some standing here which shall not taste of death till they see the son of man coming in his kingdom."(Matthew 16:28, echoed by Mark and Luke) has wandered the world ever since, unable to die.  While it seems plain to me that the line was given to inspire those listening (probably to revolution), the wandering Jew character had to be invented to preserve the idea of taking the bible as literal truth, especially in the case of Jesus-quotes.  

In the Dresdenverse, the "White God" may or may not be truly omnipotent, but the extension of life by supernatural means is possible enough, so it seems that such a figure would literally exist there, as improbable as he is for the real world.  He would be as vanilla as a mortal, apart from the inability to die, no matter how long he is around or what happens to him.  He could be, and likely has been at times, severely incapacitated, but given a world full of magic, even the most crippling injuries could be healed if the patient simply cannot die.  He'd also have a couple thousand years of knowledge.  

Mac, Kincaid, an as-yet unknown?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: parthagenon on January 18, 2011, 05:57:11 AM
Interesting, but I don't think there's enough evidence to link anyone from the DF to the Wandering Jew or the Flying Dutchman or the like.  Partially because there are just so many ways to attain immortality/lengthened lifespan in the DV.  Maybe you should start another thread on the topic?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: parthagenon on January 18, 2011, 06:05:17 AM
Added a couple more questions to Cowl:
-Was Cowl the summoner who used the Outsiders in Dead Beat?
-Why does Cowl have command over the super-ghouls?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Ms Duck on January 18, 2011, 10:31:25 PM
My only thought on the wandering Jew is I thought he'd be taller.

with eight tentacles.

and near godlike power.

 ;D


http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WellWorld (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WellWorld)

( I know some of you prob arent old enough to get that, but a sci fi geek like JIm definatley would, and considering his love affair of throwing in refences to the books of his youth, Mac would be either much drunker or much much scarier.)
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: cass on January 19, 2011, 05:22:33 AM
How did the RC gain the upper hand and usurp the positions of the (original) Mayan pantheon?

Presumably, they've only become more powerful with time and the power they stole, and...they're still somewhat afraid of what the original Mayan deities could/would do to them if they ever came back.  So how in the world did they manage to take over in the first place?!
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Ms Duck on January 19, 2011, 05:25:09 AM
bigger question, if i may..why did the old gods leave???

Not just the mayna, but all of them.

and vis a vis 'last call'..are theyr eturning?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Lash Dresden on January 19, 2011, 05:28:18 AM
How did the RC gain the upper hand and usurp the positions of the (original) Mayan pantheon?

Presumably, they've only become more powerful with time and the power they stole, and...they're still somewhat afraid of what the original Mayan deities could/would do to them if they ever came back.  So how in the world did they manage to take over in the first place?!
Oblivion war, maybe?  Assuming RCVs weren't mortal, their knowledge of those gods wouldn't tie them to reality, and they did a switcheroo so the people believed in and worshiped the Lords of Outer Night, instead of the original old Mayan gods, who were thus consigned to oblivion.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: cass on January 19, 2011, 05:32:17 AM
Hmm, now there's a possibility-- the RC simply stepped in when the post was left vacant, either momentarily or completely abandoned.

I'm not so sure that any of the old gods ever left, though, just went into dormancy/hiding/powersave mode during the (fairly global) rise of the Abrahamic religions.  Why they're coming to Chicago of all places, though....I mean, why would Greek minor deities and/or mythical figures up and travel several thousand miles away from their old seats of power (Greece and environs)?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Ms Duck on January 19, 2011, 05:40:38 AM
the short story says:

"mortlas have forgottoen the gods..they think the white god drove out the many gods. but they are here. I am  here, mortal man."- Last call

"Indeed, we withdrew and gave the world into your keeping, and what has become of it.."

Ifshe is being truthfull, the pagan gods withdrew voluntariliy for reasons of their own, as yet unknown, and are now returning because they are not happy with what mortal man has done.

On a side note, I wonder ig the hidnu gods ever left..of all the ancient religions, it is the one that is being practiced today the most by far..over a billion hindus, alst i checked.

Odin? at his absolute top, he had maybe a few million worshippers.

thats a lot of faith magic to throw around..

Kali Shiva: Name to run away from, evry fast.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Landing on January 19, 2011, 11:14:34 PM
It is never really established if there were original Mayan gods to start with, it could have been the reds the whole time. I am sure someone wants to jump in now and point of that it says in the book that the red king was afraid of the Mayan gods returning but let me point out that that particular quote also mentions that it could be that he is afraid of it being a archangel or spirit of light and most of all let me point out that this is Harry's opinion of what the red king could be thinking. Harry forming his opinion based on a few seconds glance at the red king and extrapolating from that. The red king is a being that is thousands of years old that Harry has never met before in his life. I think its a long shot that Harry is able to guess exactly what he his thinking.

And on top of that even if Harry did guess correctly as to what the King was thinking in that instant that still does not offer proof that there ever were Mayan gods after all even the red king who is like I said before thousands of years old and has presumably lived in that region for most of that time doesn't really believe that there ever where Mayan gods. He would be a pretty good person to know if there were some wouldn't he?

Having said all that I will now contradict what yall are thinking and say that I do believe that the Mayan gods did exist and I myself wonder what happened to them since I don't think the Red Court would have had the power to destroy them or drive them off. Now you are wondering if I do in fact believe in the Mayan gods existing why did I wast all that time writing about how we don't really know if they ever did. Well I guess I just like to be exsact in my understanding of the facts and also like to argue with myself so I might as well make you all privy to what goes on in my head.  ;)


Quote
He knew on­ly that it had hurt him when he had tried to mur­der the child. From his per­spec­tive, it could have been al­most any­thing—an archangel stand­ing guard, or a spir­it of light as ter­ri­ble as the Ick had been foul. I thought back to the voice com­ing from Mur­phy’s mouth, pro­nounc­ing judg­ment up­on the Red Court, and sud­den­ly un­der­stood what was mak­ing the Red King hes­itate, what he was re­al­ly think­ing: that the en­ti­ty over the al­tar might be some­thing he did not think ac­tu­al­ly ex­ist­ed—like maybe the re­al Kukul­can.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: parthagenon on January 20, 2011, 12:13:39 AM
Either way, I'll add this to the list- do we need an asterisk, or not?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: sjsharks on January 20, 2011, 02:05:29 AM
This is great. Sticky requested ;D
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: parthagenon on January 20, 2011, 02:17:27 AM
Oh, crap!  That means I actually have to go and neaten up! :o

<----lazy
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: nthnclls on January 20, 2011, 04:24:27 AM
Hmm, now there's a possibility-- the RC simply stepped in when the post was left vacant, either momentarily or completely abandoned.

That's what I assumed happened, makes the most sense to me.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: ۞†Grey Warden†۞ on January 20, 2011, 05:44:40 AM
-Who sent the ghouls to Camp Kaboom?

I thought it was pretty clear that it was the Reds but maybe not
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Magnus on January 20, 2011, 12:31:36 PM
What do people see when they are in a soulgaze with Harry?
Storm Front: Why are the small folk watching Harry?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: parthagenon on January 20, 2011, 02:58:40 PM
Added the soulgaze, but what do you mean about the small folk?  Harry had to summon Toot in Storm Front.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Magnus on January 20, 2011, 03:05:07 PM
page 74 Storm Front paperback
Quote
"No fun at all," he complained. "No wonder you can't get a date unless someone wants to know something from you."
I blinked at him, and he chortled in glee. "Hah! I love it! We're watching you, Harry Dresden!"
Now that was disconcerting. I had a sudden image of a dozen faery voyeurs lingering around my apartment's windows and peering inside. I'd have to take precautions to make sure they couldn't do that. Not that I was afraid of them, or anything. Just in case.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: sjsharks on January 20, 2011, 11:07:15 PM
Fool Moon?- what happened with Harry's mom that made Hell lose her?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: parthagenon on January 21, 2011, 12:16:32 AM
Fool Moon?- what happened with Harry's mom that made Hell lose her?

Added, with an asterisk because it's implied that Malcolm saved her.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Shevik Muppet on January 21, 2011, 01:59:43 AM
What does Martha Liberty know about Harry? What is he "meant to be" that makes him dangerous? (Summer Knight)
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: parthagenon on January 21, 2011, 02:23:04 AM
What does Martha Liberty know about Harry? What is he "meant to be" that makes him dangerous? (Summer Knight)

Already there (more or less), split under Harry and Maggie Sr.  ;D
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: sjsharks on January 21, 2011, 02:32:02 AM
Added, with an asterisk because it's implied that Malcolm saved her.

But how exactly did Malcom save her? I know that there is some speculation that he may have been a Knight of the Cross
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: ۞†Grey Warden†۞ on January 21, 2011, 02:37:53 AM
-Why is Winter so interested in Molly?

Because Ms. Duck is Mab and wants all of us to think Molly is. I stand by this theory.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on January 21, 2011, 09:43:59 PM
What does Martha Liberty know about Harry? What is he "meant to be" that makes him dangerous? (Summer Knight)

I thought we had it somewhere that that meant "meant by Justin du Morne to be", which is pretty clear.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Serack on January 21, 2011, 10:03:55 PM
I thought we had it somewhere that that meant "meant by Justin du Morne to be", which is pretty clear.

I hadn't heard of that.  Had it from what source?  It certainly sounds probable
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Ms Duck on January 23, 2011, 02:34:46 AM
frankly I allways took as a clue bat to Kemmler, esp in refence to Harry's comment in TC about 'super warlcok half the council is afraid he is'
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Cymbaline on January 26, 2011, 08:09:44 AM
Wait a sec, am I missing something?

Quote
-Who is going to wield Amoracchius?*
What's the answer for that one?  I think Jim said recently that Amoracchius probably won't be seen in action again until the BAT, so who's the new wielder going to be?

Quote
-What is the mantle Ebenezer is considering for Harry?*
I don't recall this ever being answered definitively. 

Quote
-Who/What was Malcolm Dresden?*
You mean, besides what Harry says he is, Harry's father and small-time professional stage magician.  Anything else?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: sjsharks on January 26, 2011, 04:02:13 PM
There are a lot of sword wielder theories.

Many people think the mantle Eb has for Harry is either the title of The Warden or Blackstaff. Personally I think that the mantle has something to do with being an outsiderbane.

There is a lot of discussion that there could be more to Malcolm. He may have been a KotC or something like that.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Serack on January 26, 2011, 04:27:27 PM
Quote
-What is the mantle Ebenezer is considering for Harry?*
I don't recall this ever being answered definitively. 

That's astrisked because of this comment in the origional version of this post.

TC; what is the mantle Eb is talking about. its the mantle he took when he made Demonreach his sanctum.

I responded with:
Ok then, What does the mantle Eb is talking about entail? (semantics)

But the original "mystery" wording was used with an asterisk.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: parthagenon on January 27, 2011, 04:19:51 AM
I should probably un-asterisk the Amoracchius, true.  It's only there because there is a more-or-less general suspicion that Thomas is probably going to end up wielding it, although there's very little concrete evidence.  As for Ebenezer's mantle, that asterisk is because there is quite a bit speculation that it's linked to Demonreach and/or the original (singular) Warden.  Since it isn't completely answered, but pretty much implied, it's up there with an asterisk.

For Malcolm, the question is there because of the numerous theories concerning his being an angel/KoTC/other, and the asterisk is there because so far, there all evidence points towards his being a normal human.

I really need to neaten up...
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on January 27, 2011, 05:28:26 AM
I should probably un-asterisk the Amoracchius, true.  It's only there because there is a more-or-less general suspicion that Thomas is probably going to end up wielding it. 

There is ?

Have I been gone long enough that the "Harry ends up with all three swords and they get destroyed in the BAT and none of them ever get wielders" theory has fallen from favour ?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: parthagenon on January 27, 2011, 05:32:28 AM
There is ?

Have I been gone long enough that the "Harry ends up with all three swords and they get destroyed in the BAT and none of them ever get wielders" theory has fallen from favour ?

We know that somebody will pick them up before the BAT, and that Amoracchius, at least, will survive until the beginning of the BAT.


From Marscon:

Audience member: Um, a buch of us have been chomping at the bit and wondering, um, who’s going to wield Amoracchius and Fidelacchius and [unintelligible]

Jim: Um, yeah, ok, who’s going to get to wield the two new Swords? Um, well really, not the two new swords, but the Swords that are in Dresden’s keeping right now, and are we going to get anything more about that from Ghost Story?  Probably not, nah. (Laughter)

Interviewer: How…how long will they have to wait?

Jim: I…well…oh, uh, let’s see, we’ll probably get the new…we’ll probably get the new, the new wielder of Fidelacchius in Book 14 or 15. Um, Amoracchius is gonna, uh…we’re gonna…(Jim chuckles evilly), that’s…that’s gonna be apocalypse time by the time we get [unintelligible].  Amoracchius is not one of those Swords that really rampages around the world very often, and when if does, you’ve heard about it, so…(Laughter).
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Ms Duck on January 29, 2011, 06:11:19 AM
I have a running bet on Molly actually; or possibly one of the other carpenter kids.

based on the arthurian priciple--

Merlin_ harry
uther_ mIcheal
arthur_harry's apprentice, uther' heir..Molly

so yes, unstar that one.. I put thomas as the least mlikely, frankly.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: parthagenon on January 29, 2011, 06:26:56 AM
Un-asterisked!

But, Uther = Michael?  Other than being the Carpenter kids' father, I don't really see the connection- after all, he wielded Amoracchius in his own right.

But, better not to start discussing here, or this thread will grow into a mutant hydra.  :D

Do you have your entire King Arthur theory up somewhere so I can go have a look?  I keep getting bits and pieces everywhere, and it's making me curious.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Ms Duck on January 29, 2011, 06:29:44 AM
I did years ago, but then Jim torpedoed most of it with a comment about lea; I will have to re write it.

maybe next week..It ussualy takes me a few hours to write one down cause I like having all my backup quotes ready and in line.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on January 29, 2011, 11:22:39 AM
We know that somebody will pick them up before the BAT, and that Amoracchius, at least, will survive until the beginning of the BAT.

Oh, OK, I'd not seen that. Another notion down in splinters; by the Law of Conservation of  Loony Theory, I am due inspiration any minute now.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: LogicMouseLives on January 30, 2011, 06:29:38 PM
Oh, OK, I'd not seen that. Another notion down in splinters; by the Law of Conservation of  Loony Theory, I am due inspiration any minute now.

We wait with baited breath.

LML
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on January 30, 2011, 07:12:44 PM
We wait with baited breath.

You should lay off the raw fish, then.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: LogicMouseLives on January 30, 2011, 08:36:46 PM
You should lay off the raw fish, then.

Yeah, that's what I get for digging into the cat food, huh?

Wondered if you'd catch that.  ;D

LML
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on February 01, 2011, 02:42:31 PM
Wondered if you'd catch that.  ;D

If it relates to sushi in any way, I will most likely catch it.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Mashiara on February 06, 2011, 12:49:57 AM
Quote
Whose voice does Harry hear at the end?

I don't know about the female voice, but wasn't the male, "DIE ALONE" Cassius?  In Dead Beat, he tells Harry, "DIE ALONE!" just before Mouse kills him and Harry was hit with "a flood of power".  I thought it was some kind of a curse.

*edited because now I have my book and had to get the details right.


Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: parthagenon on February 06, 2011, 06:52:40 AM
Yes, the "die alone" was Cassius.  The female voice is the unknown one.  I'll edit the post for clarity, thanks for pointing it out.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: ۞†Grey Warden†۞ on February 06, 2011, 04:38:32 PM
I figured it was his godmother
or mother
or Kim
or Murphy until i read Aftermath
or Susan I hope it's Susan
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: ema nymton on February 06, 2011, 06:56:18 PM
OK here's a silly thought that hit me while I was in the bath.

Why is Harry so tall?

I don't remember either of his parents being described as especially tall, and I have always imagined Ebenezar as being rather short but I can't remember if thats actually in the books or if it's just me. Now of course it is possible to be very tall and have averaged sized parents but hight is a genetic trait so tall people often have at least one tall parent.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Magnus on February 06, 2011, 07:25:04 PM
I don't remember either of his parents being described as especially tall, and I have always imagined Ebenezar as being rather short but I can't remember if thats actually in the books or if it's just me. Now of course it is possible to be very tall and have averaged sized parents but hight is a genetic trait so tall people often have at least one tall parent.
Actually, Malcolm is described as being tall, I can't find the quote right now though.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Ms Duck on February 06, 2011, 07:29:52 PM
OK here's a silly thought that hit me while I was in the bath.

Why is Harry so tall?

I don't remember either of his parents being described as especially tall, and I have always imagined Ebenezar as being rather short but I can't remember if thats actually in the books or if it's just me. Now of course it is possible to be very tall and have averaged sized parents but hight is a genetic trait so tall people often have at least one tall parent.

on a related note, do we have the 'is harry human' from BR listed ?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: cass on February 07, 2011, 02:57:37 AM
Was Tolkien 'inspired' like Stoker and Lovecraft?

How is it that Sanya just happened to be in town in Changes?  Nothing particularly dark or Hellish occurred onscreen...
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: parthagenon on February 07, 2011, 03:11:40 AM
on a related note, do we have the 'is harry human' from BR listed ?

Was this from Kincaid's comment about being a human as Harry?

Was Tolkien 'inspired' like Stoker and Lovecraft?

How is it that Sanya just happened to be in town in Changes?  Nothing particularly dark or Hellish occurred onscreen...

I think Tolkien being important in-universe is unlikely, since the previous Summer Knight's name, Ronald, Reuel, was a shout out to Tolkien.  As for Sanya, I just put that down to vague heavenly interference- was there something unusual about his showing up?

I'm not sure about Harry's height, but it doesn't seem out of the ordinary for wizards- the Gatekeeper is seven feet tall, after all. 
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: cass on February 07, 2011, 04:31:47 AM

....

I think Tolkien being important in-universe is unlikely, since the previous Summer Knight's name, Ronald, Reuel, was a shout out to Tolkien.  As for Sanya, I just put that down to vague heavenly interference- was there something unusual about his showing up?

...


I didn't mean that Tolkien was pointed at a target, but that he was semi-clued and wrote what he knew. Y'know, grumpy wizards using staffs, the existence of something called the White Council.  Nothing of particular significance to DV continuity.

As for Sanya, I find it interesting that he showed up right when Harry was going to need him. And the Knights can't respond to every kidnapping. Or even every kidnapping by the Rampires-- so why did Sanya respond to this one (and respond by going to Chicago, and not to Maggie?  How did he know that this particular kidnapped child had a parent there?)  If it's Heavenly meddling, why are they using Sanya to meddle?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: ۞†Grey Warden†۞ on February 07, 2011, 06:08:20 AM
I thought he was there to help the fire and then agreed to help harry.

another note I do remember malcolm being described as tall
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Serack on February 07, 2011, 04:41:06 PM
Actually, Malcolm is described as being tall, I can't find the quote right now though.

Wasn't the description of Maggie's portrate in Lord Raithe's studdy that she was a tall woman?

Ninja Edit: Found this from his Soul Gaze with Thomas:

Quote from: Blood Rites page 167 (nook)
"She was a tall woman, nearly six feet, and that was in flat sandals."

Ninja edit #2: Here's the passage where Malcom Dresden is called tall.  There is a WoJ somewhere dealing with Harry's characterization of a tall man somewhere that I will try to dig up later.

Quote from: Dead Beat page 113 (nook)
Malcom Dresden was a Tall, Spare man with dark hair and steady blue eyes.

Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: ema nymton on February 07, 2011, 07:04:29 PM
Well that's that one out the window, like I said just a silly thought anyway.  :)
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Serack on February 07, 2011, 07:35:27 PM
And for the sake of throughness:

Quote from: jimbutcher
To clarify.  :)

1) Thomas is barely anything at all under six feet high, when he isn't wearing shoes.

2) He has "natural" blue eyes when he isn't hungry.  They get paler and paler, based on how much he needs/wants to feed.

3) Harry, being freakishly tall, mostly drops people into "much shorter than me" or "a little shorter than me" categories.

4) Avatars!  Nifty!

5-10) Jim is humanly flawed.  :)
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: wardenferry419 on February 08, 2011, 12:33:54 PM
  I think that Cowl and Kumori are faeries. They did ask thrice for the book.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: wardenferry419 on February 08, 2011, 12:35:08 PM
  Could Mac be a dragon?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: wardenferry419 on February 08, 2011, 12:43:45 PM
 I think that Harry's father saved his mother with love. Before him, she was a troubled person. With him, she found love and redemption. Kinda corny, but, it might work.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: wardenferry419 on February 08, 2011, 01:02:26 PM
 The same person that killed Malcolm taught sells that curse. Malcolm was the rough draft and the lovers were the finished work. Sound good? Cowl and Kumori were at the party "sowing seeds of discontent." Harry born on Halloween, that has to have some kinda significance. Maybe Fix shot Harry, he is the Summer Knight and he knows that he can't handle Harry in fair fight. Could Harry's headaches be the remnants of Lash or Lasciel? Mouse chose Harry because he sensed a good soul that needed a hand. No wonder the dog acts and talks like Harry. He sensed a place of personal importance like Mac's bar.  An idea, the Black Council or Circle want to return the Outsiders to the world in order to create a do-over. Harry has power against the Outsiders, so the Circle wants Harry out of the way. Gate-keeper helps Harry because he recognizes Harry's potential.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Serack on February 08, 2011, 01:18:33 PM
  I think that Cowl and Kumori are faeries. They did ask thrice for the book.

In Grave Peril at the graveyard scene, and at the beginning of Summer Knight when Harry met Mab, it was hammered home that Fae can't really work their magic on you unless they already have a handle on you.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: MrWiggles on February 08, 2011, 01:53:21 PM
Where can I read more about the The Warden? From what I know, he was suppose to be the original warden for WH. Is there more info then that?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: parthagenon on February 08, 2011, 03:08:25 PM
There's a WOJ about it that implies that the Warden was once a singular office somehow connected to Demonreach.  I can't find it now, perhaps Serack can get it for you?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Serack on February 08, 2011, 05:16:07 PM
There's a WOJ about it that implies that the Warden was once a singular office somehow connected to Demonreach.  I can't find it now, perhaps Serack can get it for you?

Both bolded words are words I search for rather frequently to see if anyone needs help finding a WoJ  :P

Quote
2009 Independence signing:
Q:  Can the skinwalker access the NeverNever and use the Ways?  If so, why didn’t it?
A:  Yes.  All I'll say now is that it's important to know that ‘wardens’ wasn’t always plural.  (He did add later that there are certain places it can’t cross over, like the island).
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: wardenferry419 on February 08, 2011, 06:01:12 PM
 Okay, they might not be faeries; but, I still think that they are associated with the faeries.  Their power signature was not the greasy, evil feel of others. Perhaps, it felt more natural or familiar to Harry.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Magnus on February 08, 2011, 09:32:59 PM
In Grave Peril at the graveyard scene, and at the beginning of Summer Knight when Harry met Mab, it was hammered home that Fae can't really work their magic on you unless they already have a handle on you.
I thought that was that they couldn't kill you unless they already had a handle on you. They are allowed to mess in other ways though.
Or am I wrong?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: ۞†Grey Warden†۞ on February 09, 2011, 06:33:11 AM
I thought it was just the Queens not all fae
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: wardenferry419 on February 09, 2011, 01:12:40 PM
 At Bianca's party, there were representatives from numerous groups. Where were the Summer faerie reps? Winter was there; but, not Summer.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: ۞†Grey Warden†۞ on February 09, 2011, 09:44:18 PM
that we know of we didn't meet hamlet guy
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Landing on February 10, 2011, 12:01:28 AM
Hamlet guy was Mavra
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: ۞†Grey Warden†۞ on February 10, 2011, 02:14:57 AM
You sure? I don't know i thought she was just under a veil?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Landing on February 10, 2011, 02:17:54 AM
Yeah, I'm sure. I reread it before posting that she was. I always try to double check so I don't say something wrong and get embarrassed and have to eat someone alive to make myself feel better.  ;D
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: ۞†Grey Warden†۞ on February 10, 2011, 02:50:22 AM
smile
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: parthagenon on February 10, 2011, 03:44:08 AM
Please don't eat me alive, Landing.  I'd much prefer to be already dead if I must be eaten.  :D
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: wardenferry419 on February 10, 2011, 01:51:32 PM
Robert Duvall as Eb. McCoy
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: wardenferry419 on February 10, 2011, 01:54:03 PM
oops wrong forum.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: pitchdarkman on February 11, 2011, 04:05:49 PM
Why does Harry ask...uh think at Lash about any relation about the outsiders and the black court in WN? any guesses or ws it just Black council and I got a dud copy.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: sjsharks on February 11, 2011, 04:12:56 PM
Why does Harry ask...uh think at Lash about any relation about the outsiders and the black court in WN? any guesses or ws it just Black council and I got a dud copy.

can you provide a quote or the page number?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: SlimMason on February 11, 2011, 08:53:46 PM
Quote
Blood Rites:
-How is Lord Raith protected from magic

I thought this was explained in the book. Harry's mother was killed by Lord Wraith's magic durring Harry's birth. She knew this and her death curse was a barrier that prevented Lord Wraith from Feeding on sex power. (Which had the unforseen side effect of protecting him from all magic.)
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Sydna on February 11, 2011, 10:59:55 PM
Are you sure, I got the impression Lord Raith made a deal with outsiders.

I thought this was explained in the book. Harry's mother was killed by Lord Wraith's magic durring Harry's birth. She knew this and her death curse was a barrier that prevented Lord Wraith from Feeding on sex power. (Which had the unforseen side effect of protecting him from all magic.)
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Landing on February 11, 2011, 11:13:05 PM
Lord Raith had that protection long before he meet Harry's mother. we do not know yet how he got it.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: parthagenon on February 11, 2011, 11:20:13 PM
I think it was implied that his magic resistance was the reason Maggie Sr. couldn't run away or kill him using normal methods, and therefore resorted to using her death curse on him, thus crippling the Whampires.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Ms Duck on February 12, 2011, 02:48:17 AM
I thought it was semi confirmed that LR made a deal with HHWB, and sinc eoutsider magic is imune to normal human magic..
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: sjsharks on February 12, 2011, 03:26:30 AM
Im fairly certain that HWWB made some deal with Lord Raith because of the fact that LR had a summoning ritual for HWWB and was using it in BR, and it was implied that the same curse was used on Maggie Sr. Also didn't Vitto have similar anti magic protection from the Outsiders (his cuffs I believe) that Ramirez had to use his Warden's sword to cut through?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: parthagenon on February 12, 2011, 03:30:50 AM
Hmm, I don't remember much about Vitto's cuffs.  Can Warden swords cut through Outsider magic resistance?

I'll add an asterisk to the original question, though.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Ms Duck on February 12, 2011, 06:05:33 AM
it wasnt vitto, it was madrigal, and when cut they went boom nicely, so I assume no, they are not outsider work.

some folks have sugested that lara has the protection now ( it being in the red egm she took from her father, and now wears) but if so, why not use it when Eb was threatening her in TC?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: pitchdarkman on February 12, 2011, 08:47:56 AM
Why does Harry ask...uh think at Lash about any relation about the outsiders and the black court in WN? any guesses or ws it just Black council and I got a dud copy.

I actually read it frm a e-book but the quote is..."After which, we were going to have a long talk about my mother and these Outsiders and their relation to the Black Court and exactly what the hell was going on."

see if u can find it and make anything of it
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on February 12, 2011, 06:11:28 PM
Lord Raith had that protection long before he meet Harry's mother. we do not know yet how he got it.

Do you have a citation for that ?  I was under the impression that was not established, and i am rather fond of the notion that maggie helped him get it.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on February 12, 2011, 06:12:33 PM
I think it was implied that his magic resistance was the reason Maggie Sr. couldn't run away or kill him using normal methods, and therefore resorted to using her death curse on him, thus crippling the Whampires.

I can equally well read that as her being smart enough to lay down her death curse in ways that hamper the White Court as a whole, rather than just killing Lord R and having someone else take over unhindered.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on February 12, 2011, 06:13:44 PM
I actually read it frm a e-book but the quote is..."After which, we were going to have a long talk about my mother and these Outsiders and their relation to the Black Court and exactly what the hell was going on."

That was the plan, then he got busy with the climax of the book, and by the time he got around to asking the question again lash was gone or pretending to be gone, so nothing came of it.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: LogicMouseLives on February 12, 2011, 07:15:28 PM
I actually read it frm a e-book but the quote is..."After which, we were going to have a long talk about my mother and these Outsiders and their relation to the Black Court and exactly what the hell was going on."

see if u can find it and make anything of it


White Night HC page 364 (US version). Your quotation is word for word, pitchdarkman.

I've always been 99% certain that that was a typo (because there aren't any of those in modern publishing anymore, of course!) and what was intended was "...these Outsiders and their relation to the Black Council..." which makes worlds more sense. Setting aside this quote, there's hardly a single mention of Black Court Vamps in that whole book, but Cowl and the theorized Black Council/Circle are a major thread.

LML
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: parthagenon on February 13, 2011, 12:31:47 AM
I agree with LML on that one, but has anybody asked JB about it?  Also, how much evidence is there that Maggie Sr. was linked to either the Black Council or the Outsiders?  I'm not sure how to phrase another question about that.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on February 13, 2011, 04:00:33 AM
I agree with LML on that one, but has anybody asked JB about it?  Also, how much evidence is there that Maggie Sr. was linked to either the Black Council or the Outsiders?  I'm not sure how to phrase another question about that.

We have solid evidence linking Maggie to Lord Raith, Eb's word in BR linking her to Justin, and Nicodemus claiming to have known her.  There is, of course, no Black Council, but that's a pretty dark-grey-looking cabal.  Justin and Lord R both have direct Outsider links.  I think that's it for solid textev.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: parthagenon on February 13, 2011, 06:06:30 AM
We have solid evidence linking Maggie to Lord Raith, Eb's word in BR linking her to Justin, and Nicodemus claiming to have known her.  There is, of course, no Black Council, but that's a pretty dark-grey-looking cabal.  Justin and Lord R both have direct Outsider links.  I think that's it for solid textev.

In deference to your nonbelief in the Black Council, I think all references to them can be pretty much replaced with "vague, probably antagonistic group of characters that may or may not be connected to one another". 

Which question should I add, "How was Maggie Sr. connected with Outsiders", or "Was Maggie Sr. connected with Outsiders"?  There's also the implications of Harry's planned birth to consider, which makes it a fairly strong connection in my mind.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: sjsharks on February 13, 2011, 06:28:53 PM
Is there any significance to Thomas being born on Valentine's day? (hey its his birthday tomorrow ;D)
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: wardenferry419 on February 13, 2011, 11:27:09 PM
I'm guess the significance is on a par with Harry being born on Halloween.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: parthagenon on February 14, 2011, 03:10:42 AM
Okay, I've added two questions:

-How was Maggie Sr. connected to the Outsiders?
-How do the Laws of Magic work?

Does anybody have any suggestions on how to make the second question less vague?  It was the best I could come up with, given the amount of discussion in the Laws of Magic thread.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on February 14, 2011, 02:59:51 PM
In deference to your nonbelief in the Black Council, I think all references to them can be pretty much replaced with "vague, probably antagonistic group of characters that may or may not be connected to one another". 

That's fine by me, but that is not what Harry says at the end of PG that he means by the Black Council, and I favour not using the term unless we mean what Harry says he means.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: knnn on February 14, 2011, 06:23:36 PM
Who stole the Loop Garou tapes?
How did the Gatekeeper get a fragment of the Stone Table?

Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: ۞†Grey Warden†۞ on February 14, 2011, 08:50:56 PM
Who stole the Loop Garou tapes?
How did the Gatekeeper get a fragment of the Stone Table?



Tera West for both
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: knnn on February 14, 2011, 09:58:44 PM
Tera West for both

Do have any reason to assume this?  I don't see why she would care or even be aware of the former and the latter makes no sense to me.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: parthagenon on February 15, 2011, 12:10:00 AM
Who stole the Loop Garou tapes?
How did the Gatekeeper get a fragment of the Stone Table?

For the first, it may have been Tera West, but seems unlikely.  Why would a wolfwif even know about security tapes?  For the second, I figured it just came with the Gatekeeper's job description in the NN. 

That's fine by me, but that is not what Harry says at the end of PG that he means by the Black Council, and I favour not using the term unless we mean what Harry says he means.

More accurately, I suppose, I'm using the term to refer to the individuals and events that Harry calls the Black Council.  Whether he's correct of not has no bearing on the terminology; all the strange events that seem to be connected to what Harry suspects is an organized conspiracy are put under "Black Council", whether or not it actually exists.  For simplicity's sake, it seemed the easiest way to organize the various conspiracy theories and vaguely connected mysteries.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Ziggelly on February 15, 2011, 01:37:53 AM
 -- What's Maggie Sr.'s connection to Nicodemus?
Just throwing that out there. I don't think anybody's asked that question, yet. Could be relevent.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: parthagenon on February 15, 2011, 01:55:43 AM
-- What's Maggie Sr.'s connection to Nicodemus?
Just throwing that out there. I don't think anybody's asked that question, yet. Could be relevent.

Added!
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on February 15, 2011, 01:57:10 AM
-- What's Maggie Sr.'s connection to Nicodemus?
Just throwing that out there. I don't think anybody's asked that question, yet. Could be relevent.

Or non-existent.  Fallen lie.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: ۞†Grey Warden†۞ on February 15, 2011, 03:30:51 AM
okay
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: sjsharks on February 16, 2011, 01:39:51 AM
I think Rashid got the piece of the table from Mab, seeing as there is evidence that they at least corrispond.

Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: ۞†Grey Warden†۞ on February 16, 2011, 03:43:59 AM
I think he is wily like a um um um Desert Fox that is a good similie  :D
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Magnus on February 16, 2011, 07:14:39 AM
Or non-existent.  Fallen lie.
Possible, but the representation of Maggie in Harry and Thomas Soulgaze seems suspioucsly similar to a denarian shadow.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: wardenferry419 on February 16, 2011, 08:40:32 AM
Has anybody wondered about Rudolph. How he went from an okay newbie cop to a finalist for the douche of the universe contest. And really, what the heck did Murphy and Harry ever do to him for him to behave as he does.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: ۞†Grey Warden†۞ on February 17, 2011, 02:36:35 AM
FOOL MOON

Has anybody wondered about Rudolph. How he went from an okay newbie cop to a finalist for the douche of the universe contest. And really, what the heck did Murphy and Harry ever do to him for him to behave as he does.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Ms Duck on February 17, 2011, 03:20:49 AM
as to the quote about Maggie, Lor Raith, the outsiders and the black court.

this may be a case of things Harry suspects that the reader does not know yet; we know by WOJ that there was some sort of alliance that took out the black court. We know:

Quote
Q:  When will we learn more about Maggie?
A:  It will be little bits at a time, like we’re learning now.  But eventually we will find out that what we’ve been told so far is only accurate from a certain point of view.  It will all have a different meaning once we’ve learned the whole story.

Quote
Power in the spirit world isn't the same thing as power in the material world.  And a one-on-thirtyish fight (Mab vs the elders of the BC) is WAY different than a one-on-20,000 fight (a BC vampire against a modest mortal city).  Especially when the 20,000 know what your weaknesses are, and how to kill you with them.   And that's assuming that you don't have a saint, or an independent wizard, or a shaman, a Knight of the Cross or some other champion, or other spiritual allies on your side which was not uncommon.  Hell, for that matter, you might well be aided by vampires from the other Courts.  *Everyone* resented how powerful the Blacks had become.



then there is that dinner eb talked about in changes...

so to add to your list: how powerfull was the black court, and what did it take to take them down,?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: parthagenon on February 17, 2011, 04:20:21 AM
Added "How powerful were the Black Court, and what are they doing now?" since we know that Stoker's Dracula pretty much decimated most of the Black Court.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Ms Duck on February 17, 2011, 05:03:06 AM
as you wish..i read that woj tho as :

10,000 humans armed with top of the line modern (for then weapons), backed by knights, red court vampires, white court vampires, the sidhe, saints, and for allw e know dolphins for each elder :)

its important because:

the elders will allmost certainly return (if theya re not doing so allready)

if it took an alliance of everyone last time, it may explain why Mavra is causing wars between everyone now.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: wardenferry419 on February 18, 2011, 01:36:18 PM
I've noticed something in Dead Beat that wa interesting. When Cowl lifts his arms to touch the Darkhollow, his arms are described as "long, weathered arms covered in old scars." NOW, the only person I can recall having this "weathered" descriptions is Injun Joe. Infact, many times that Injun Joe is introduced in the story this word appears. Theory, Injun Joe being a healer finds an injured Elaine, heals her, then recruits her. Joe is very interested in aspects of life and death that could tie into a benevolent form of Necromancy. Does this theory hold water?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: wardenferry419 on February 18, 2011, 01:37:05 PM
Has any other character been described as "weathered"?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: wardenferry419 on February 18, 2011, 01:40:15 PM
THere is the additional fact that Elaine has learned a bit of healing magic. So, I think she learned it from Joe and she is Kumori.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Arkham8 on February 18, 2011, 01:54:57 PM
Quick Question- Drakul tends to come up a lot in speculation posts. Do we, as a community, think he's anything more than just a name drop? To clarify, outside of Kincaid's past, do we think Drakul is going to become relevant to the series?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: BigDPizzle on February 18, 2011, 03:04:12 PM
I think with the number of remaining books it's safe to assume that Harry is going up as against everyone. EVERYONE!
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Ms Duck on February 19, 2011, 02:01:33 AM
there is  a list ( or several mini lists) of things that may not show up until the finaly trilogy:

to sum up, i believe:

Titania
Drakul
Ferrovax
what Lea and Maggie's relationship was
who will wield ammoricus
who the black council realy are

so yep, he's importnat..just enjoy the long wait.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: knnn on February 22, 2011, 04:39:52 PM
there is  a list ( or several mini lists) of things that may not show up until the finaly trilogy:

to sum up, i believe:

Titania
Drakul
Ferrovax
what Lea and Maggie's relationship was
who will wield ammoricus
who the black council realy are

so yep, he's importnat..just enjoy the long wait.

Don't forget Mac
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: wardenferry419 on February 23, 2011, 08:59:40 PM
In Dead Beat, Harry has dream about father giving him a Snickers snack. In Summer Knight, Harry gave Injun Joe's little friend a HALF Snickers. Now Harry's dreams seem to be a way for Harry's unconscious to connect with his conscience mind. I'm using this as a leaping point for Injun Joe being Cowl.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: knnn on February 23, 2011, 09:41:30 PM
In Dead Beat, Harry has dream about father giving him a Snickers snack. In Summer Knight, Harry gave Injun Joe's little friend a HALF Snickers. Now Harry's dreams seem to be a way for Harry's unconscious to connect with his conscience mind. I'm using this as a leaping point for Injun Joe being Cowl.

Proof that Harry will need to fight a Jabberwock in one of the future books.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Ms Duck on February 23, 2011, 10:38:01 PM
proof that the outsiders come from beyond the milky way
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: knnn on February 23, 2011, 10:59:50 PM
You really Dove into that.  Don't Nestle in it too long.   ;D
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Ms Duck on February 23, 2011, 11:03:13 PM
sadly,all this interplanatray puns use power,  my cell modem is about out of mars bars
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: knnn on February 23, 2011, 11:29:26 PM
Ok, I guess that was worth a few Chuckles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuckles).  Still I don't want our side-discussion to Eclipse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eclipse_%28breath_freshener%29) the real topic.  
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Ms Duck on February 23, 2011, 11:38:17 PM
yes, choosing be twix this topic and that will be a tough cookie.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Landing on February 23, 2011, 11:47:24 PM
ah you found something to distract the ducky, your a real life saver.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Ms Duck on February 23, 2011, 11:53:11 PM
which make sus the 3 musketeers?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Landing on February 24, 2011, 12:01:16 AM
well thats better than being airheads.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Ms Duck on February 24, 2011, 12:09:42 AM
you are such a cute kit kat
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Landing on February 24, 2011, 12:24:49 AM
now we are acting like a bunch of goobers.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: knnn on February 24, 2011, 02:36:59 AM
Well, if you guys would simply Rolover, we could get back to the real discussion.  Instead, we're totally knocking this fine thread out of Orbit.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: sjsharks on February 24, 2011, 04:51:37 AM
look at all you smarties coming up with all of this
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: knnn on February 24, 2011, 02:27:13 PM
Looks like you've got a few Extra ideas up your sleeve.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: MacShidhe on February 24, 2011, 02:43:04 PM
I know I'm coming up with Zero (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZERO_bar).
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: knnn on February 24, 2011, 04:44:11 PM
Don't worry, nobody is going to put a Bounty on your head.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: parthagenon on February 24, 2011, 10:35:40 PM
Well, would you look at that.  My thread got hijacked by a bunch of candy Nerds.  ::)
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Cyberchihuahua on February 24, 2011, 10:47:16 PM
Looks like a pun SPREE.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: LogicMouseLives on February 27, 2011, 05:01:49 AM
Gee, I go away for a week or two, and come back to this?

I'm absolutely Gobstopped.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: parthagenon on March 03, 2011, 01:02:13 AM
So, now that the GS chapter 1 preview is out, does anyone object to adding GS-spoilery questions to this thread?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: sjsharks on March 03, 2011, 01:50:46 AM
So, now that the GS chapter 1 preview is out, does anyone object to adding GS-spoilery questions to this thread?

I don't have a problem with it, but you should add Ghost Story spoilers to the title and we should still put spoiler tags on all material in the thread, so that those who don't want to get spoiled can still use the thread.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: wildone654 on March 03, 2011, 05:37:18 AM
I've got  a question thats been bugging me for awhile, why was that Dragon (who from all the WoJ and such I've read could very well be the most powerful entity we have seen to date) at Bianca's party???
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Arkham8 on March 03, 2011, 02:43:36 PM
I've got  a question thats been bugging me for awhile, why was that Dragon (who from all the WoJ and such I've read could very well be the most powerful entity we have seen to date) at Bianca's party???
Open bar.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: MacShidhe on March 03, 2011, 04:00:10 PM
I've got  a question thats been bugging me for awhile, why was that Dragon (who from all the WoJ and such I've read could very well be the most powerful entity we have seen to date) at Bianca's party???

That's a very good question.  I have a feeling we won't find out until the BAT.  Everyone at the party got a gift from the Black Council.  We don't know anything about what his was except that it fit in a box.  With him being so powerful, I'm half wondering if he took the gift for simply staying out of their way rather than being a fully allied.  If not, I think Amoracchius will get another notch in it scabbard  :D
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Thork on March 03, 2011, 09:40:56 PM
That's a very good question.  I have a feeling we won't find out until the BAT.  Everyone at the party got a gift from the Black Council.  We don't know anything about what his was except that it fit in a box.  With him being so powerful, I'm half wondering if he took the gift for simply staying out of their way rather than being a fully allied.  If not, I think Amoracchius will get another notch in it scabbard  :D

There are a few questions re: Ferrovax that we don't have answers for, at least as far as I know. 1) Why does Michael call him "Blood of the Dragon, that old Serpent", 2) what was in the Box ? 3), as you say, why was he there/involved at all?


Another suggestion for a question: I remember that at some point, Malcolm Dresden starts appearing in Harry's dreams, saying he couldn't show up before then because the other side hadn't broken the rules yet, or something like that. What rules? What other side? What broke them and how?


As a suggestion -- this is a great thread, but it would be even more helpful if the theories that had asterisks also had explanations as to what the asterisks were referring to.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: parthagenon on March 03, 2011, 10:37:53 PM
Ferrovax is already in the list, but I can add another question, if you'd like.

-Why was Ferrovax at Bianca’s party, and what did he receive?

@Thork: Thanks for the suggestion, I've been meaning to replace the asterisks with numbered superscripts linked to explanations, but just haven't got around to doing it yet.  Hopefully, this reminder will shame me out of procrastination.  ;)
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: wildone654 on March 04, 2011, 01:37:40 AM
Ah sorry, must have glanced passed him.

Ya I dunno, Ferro bugs me.  Him going to Bianca's "welcome to the court" party is like if Jesus showed up personaly at your Grade School Graduation.  Seems real fishy. 
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Grey Paladin on March 04, 2011, 02:53:22 AM
Here's one that's been bugging me for a while:

When Harry's house caught fire in Changes, why, exactly, didn't Mouse just start with his "Patented ALARM! Bark" to wake Mrs. Spunklecrief and the upstairs people?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: knnn on March 04, 2011, 01:32:33 PM
There are a few questions re: Ferrovax that we don't have answers for, at least as far as I know. 1) Why does Michael call him "Blood of the Dragon, that old Serpent", 2) what was in the Box ? 3), as you say, why was he there/involved at all?

I believe Michael calls Marva "Blood of the Dragon" - leading to our speculation that since Dracula son of Drakul "started the Black Court as teenage rebellion", that Drakul is a half-dragon scion.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Thork on March 04, 2011, 03:34:21 PM
I believe Michael calls Marva "Blood of the Dragon" - leading to our speculation that since Dracula son of Drakul "started the Black Court as teenage rebellion", that Drakul is a half-dragon scion.

Yeah, it was Mavra, my bad. I think the actual quote you're referencing though is that Dracula "went to" the Black Court as a kind of teenage rebellion, though, he didn't "start" it -- the black court predates Dracula by a long while. 
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: MacShidhe on March 04, 2011, 03:39:01 PM
1) Why does Michael call him "Blood of the Dragon, that old Serpent"
I believe Michael calls Marva "Blood of the Dragon" - leading to our speculation that since Dracula son of Drakul "started the Black Court as teenage rebellion", that Drakul is a half-dragon scion.
Yeah, it was Mavra, my bad. I think the actual quote you're referencing though is that Dracula "went to" the Black Court as a kind of teenage rebellion, though, he didn't "start" it -- the black court predates Dracula by a long while. 

I'm pretty sure "Blood of the Dragon, that Old serpent," is a reference to Revelation 20:2 (KJV).

"And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,"

I can see a few possibilities here.  There's also a large possibility of forshadowing on Jim Butcher's part.

1) Michael was speaking metaphoricaly and just calling Marva evil in a really cool way.

2) Michael is implying that Drakul is either a dragon or spawn of a dragon

3) Michael is implying that Drakul is either the Devil or spawn of the Devil

4) Michael is implying that Drakul is the spawn of the Devil and a dragon.  (Run fast, run far, don't look back, and hope you're wearing dark brown pants. :) )
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Thork on March 04, 2011, 03:57:15 PM
I'm pretty sure "Blood of the Dragon, that Old serpent," is a reference to Revelation 20:2 (KJV).

"And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,"

Ok, that's a damn good catch on your part -- whichever the resolution, I think it's a damn good question! I just sparked onto it because I noticed Bianca referencing the "Lords of Outer Night" a few paragraphs later, and obviously we didn't get them identified till Changes, so Michael's reference there seemed worth investigating. (From your post, my guess is #3, but it's a neat question whatever way!)
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Ms Duck on March 05, 2011, 01:55:59 AM
Frakul does mean dragon, but we havee canon that he and the black court are not related.

(being as his son joined them to get away from dad.)
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Arkham8 on March 07, 2011, 01:56:54 PM
Frakul does mean dragon, but we havee canon that he and the black court are not related.

(being as his son joined them to get away from dad.)
How does a Dragon, a force of nature, have a kid? I mean, Shagnasty was neither male or female and his power level isn't anywhere near Ferro's or Mab's. Do these super-powerful beings get pregged in the traditional sense? Or do they just will an offspring into existence?

And as for Drakul's rebellious son who joined the Black Court....if Drakul is a dragon would that make his son, who I presume is Dracula, half-dragon half-blampire? That seems kinda scary.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: MacShidhe on March 07, 2011, 02:16:05 PM
How does a Dragon, a force of nature, have a kid?

However it wants to  :P
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: knnn on March 07, 2011, 02:17:38 PM
How does a Dragon, a force of nature, have a kid? I mean, Shagnasty was neither male or female and his power level isn't anywhere near Ferro's or Mab's. Do these super-powerful beings get pregged in the traditional sense? Or do they just will an offspring into existence?

We've seen Mab do fun stuff with Harry, so maybe yes.  Also, we've seen Ferro look human, so presumably he could do something with a female mortal.  Take a look at Zeus - he supposedly had children with mortal women after appearing to them as a white bull/Satyr/golden rain/swan

And as for Drakul's rebellious son who joined the Black Court....if Drakul is a dragon would that make his son, who I presume is Dracula, half-dragon half-blampire? That seems kinda scary.

I believe that Eb says that Drakul is a scion - i.e half human.   Thus, I think Drakul could be a half-Dragon, making Dracula a quarter-Dragon?

Incidentally, I'm still holding out hope for a theory of mine where Kincaid and Drakul both the same type of scion - maybe even brothers.  The idea is that like changelings, they have the ability to choose to become like their mortal parent or like their supernatural parent.  Drakul chose, and that's why he's so powerful.  Kincaid hasn't chosen yet, and so that's why he is so touchy about fulling his contract obligations  and "I am as human as you" questions.  It's a way of clinging to his human side.

Of course, I hope this means that at some point in the series Kincaid will be forced to make the choice, and suddenly Harry will have a Drakul-level ally fighting alongside of him (or against him if he pisses him off)....

Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Arkham8 on March 07, 2011, 02:23:01 PM
One thing I noticed concerning Kincaid's heritage was Harry's view of him with the Sight. A giant demon with a dead body attached that looked like Kincaid's human form.

Is this indicative of Kincaid's sacrifice of what humanity he has? Probably not, because he still seems very much human and he does care of Murphy, Ivy, and (maybe) Harry, due to Ivy.

Maybe the demon in the Sight is his old employer Drakul, metaphorically holding Kincaid, much like viewing Harry with the Sight shows HWWB.

Maybe the Demon is metaphorical.

And Maybe it's his battle shape-shifting form, a la Dante from DmC  :P. (Because he's quickly becoming an expy of Dante in my mind)
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Landing on March 07, 2011, 11:58:46 PM
One thing I noticed concerning Kincaid's heritage was Harry's view of him with the Sight. A giant demon with a dead body attached that looked like Kincaid's human form.

Is this indicative of Kincaid's sacrifice of what humanity he has? Probably not, because he still seems very much human and he does care of Murphy, Ivy, and (maybe) Harry, due to Ivy.

Maybe the demon in the Sight is his old employer Drakul, metaphorically holding Kincaid, much like viewing Harry with the Sight shows HWWB.

Maybe the Demon is metaphorical.

And Maybe it's his battle shape-shifting form, a la Dante from DmC  :P. (Because he's quickly becoming an expy of Dante in my mind)

Actual its not a dead body that looks like Kincaid attached to the demon form it is:
Quote
For just a second I saw something standing there. Something enormous, malformed, something silent and merciless and deadly. It had to crouch to keep from brushing the ceiling with the horns curling away from its head, and batlike wings spread from its shoulders to fall around it and behind it, to drag along the floor, and I thought I saw some kind of hideous double image lurking behind it like the corpse-specter of Death himself.

And many of us believe that the corpse specter of death is really Mavra veiled and taking pictures that Harry just happened to see with his sight when he say Kincaid.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Arkham8 on March 08, 2011, 03:10:00 AM
Actual its not a dead body that looks like Kincaid attached to the demon form it is:
And many of us believe that the corpse specter of death is really Mavra veiled and taking pictures that Harry just happened to see with his sight when he say Kincaid.
Ahhh thanks for clarifying. BR is one of the few books I don't re-read on a regular basis. That and FM.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: parthagenon on March 08, 2011, 04:03:22 AM
Okay, I need to add that bit about Mavra and the photographs.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: knnn on March 08, 2011, 01:01:44 PM
Actual its not a dead body that looks like Kincaid attached to the demon form it is:
And many of us believe that the corpse specter of death is really Mavra veiled and taking pictures that Harry just happened to see with his sight when he say Kincaid.

It's certainly one those theories I keep a finger on  On the other hand, we've seen soul gazes (not the Sight, but similar) with Rasmussen and Thomas where there is a similar duality -> there is a demon in the background. 

We'll just have to wait and see..
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: knnn on March 08, 2011, 07:34:54 PM
P.S.

In Grave Peril Harry gets a glimpse of Marva using the Sight.  She doesn't appear like anything other than a dead corpse.

 
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Landing on March 08, 2011, 09:39:04 PM
P.S.

In Grave Peril Harry gets a glimpse of Marva using the Sight.  She doesn't appear like anything other than a dead corpse.

 

Harry also "lowered the Sight before it showed me something that I didn’t want to keep with me." when looking at Marva In Grave Peril, so that's not really that good a example to go by.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: wardenferry419 on March 08, 2011, 09:45:35 PM
I would like Harry to use the sight on Hendricks. An apology would probably follow.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: unfilthy on March 09, 2011, 03:18:56 PM
I had thought it was clear that Molly was taken to Arctic Tor so that Harry would assault it so that Mab could force her own hand back to where she wanted it, despite some outside influence, said outside influence being the reason she was so angry she had her kitty talking for her for so long....

That's exactly how I understood it too, but then I haven't been subjected to as many theories as the board regulars have ;)

So far, the general consensus has been that the Erlking is the most likely culprit for the hexenwulfen belts, but we're not sure.

Is it just me, or does this just seem like a really odd thing to happen?

I mean, sure, I get the hunting connection, and there's the whole FBI location paralleling the Erlking's lair in the NN, but I personally got the impression that the Erlking was someone who wouldn't bother with such small scale stuff. I mean, he can lead the great hunt and has a whole lot of minion and he's a freaking Faery King, so lots and lots of power, and he seems to enjoy the sportsmanship of it all, so it seems to me like giving a handful of belts to some random FBI agents would be too small time (even lame) for someone of his caliber, if that makes sense.

Anyway, I have a couple of questions.

1. Was Rudolph being influenced by anyone other than the eebs/before the eebs?
I recently re-read GP in which he's explicitly and vocally supportive & protective of Murphy. While his denial regarding his experiences with the supernatural can explain some of his general irrationality and hostility, and his ambitious nature can explain his weaselly behavior and wish to escape into IAD at the expense of the people in SI, he still seems to have changed rather drastically over the years, into something almost rabid, without the corresponding on screen experiences that would explain it. Or maybe some people just don't need a reason to become hateful and nasty.

2. Have we met any Outsiders (other than HWWB)? Are there any Outsiders hanging out in the real world without our knowledge? Could Outsiders even be in the real world in a non-detectable way?
I have a lot of Outsider questions... which reminds me, there are some notions that Harry is meant for a mantle like the Warden (singular), which we don't know much about, or Blackstaff (for which I personally consider Harry to be supremely unsuited), but what about Harry as Gatekeeper?


Also, hi! I'm new (in an "I've been lurking since finishing Changes" kind of way).

Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Arkham8 on March 09, 2011, 03:57:56 PM
Is it just me, or does this just seem like a really odd thing to happen?
Well, we can assert that he didn't necessarily intend to cause trouble for Dresden in particular. Maybe he was enhancing the hunter aspect of the FBI agents, themselves hunters of criminals. Maybe he was purposely pitting them against Marcone, the man with the soul of the tiger. Maybe he wanted to pit them against the Loup-garou.

Think of it like this. A wholeeeee bunch of werewolves of every flavor all showed up in one city, at one time. Given that wolves embody the spirit of the hunter, I can see the Erkling arranging this for shits and giggles.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: unfilthy on March 09, 2011, 05:10:54 PM
Hmm. I can buy the Wolf Vs Tiger thing as plausible, but thinking about it now, I have to wonder; since when do the Sidhe just give mortals power?

So now I have a revised question:

What was the deal behind providing the FBI with wolf belts (and who/what was involved)?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: knnn on March 09, 2011, 06:25:25 PM
As I understand it, the only real connection between the Erlking and the Belts is that the FBI building in Chicago opens to the NN in the middle of Erl's domain.

IMHO this is really weak because the Erlking doesn't seem to have any interest in Chicago other than generally causing mayham.  On the other hand, the guy who gave the belts to the FBI agents specifically warned them about the White Council, and suggested sabotaging the Loup-Garou to cover their tracks.  To me this sounds like someone/something with a much more specific agenda.

P.S.  Wasn't there some blurb about the agents coming from out of town?  That would make the whole NN connection even less relevant.


New looney theory:

Cowl/Marva gave the belts to the FBI agents to cause upheavals (fallout from them going crazy after using the belts) in the Chicago FBI building --> leading to chaos within Erlking's domain --> leading to easier summoning of Erl for the darkhallow.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: wardenferry419 on March 09, 2011, 09:30:27 PM
I can go with Cowl having to do alot of prep work for the Darkhallow. The magic drugs, the tormented ghosts, and the spalttercon fearfest are good ways to create a spiritually- heightened state in Chicago.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: unfilthy on March 09, 2011, 11:59:40 PM
I like the idea of Cowl doing prep work, like Mavra did with the ghosts, and I find it more plausible than the Erlking explanation. What confuses me is that I gathered that post-Changes we're meant to think Erlking  (hence the *), which seems like a much less plausible explanation for the wolf belts falling into FBI hands.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Renady on March 10, 2011, 12:14:07 AM
I don't know if this has been mentioned yet or not (it wasn't on the list though), but couldn't you say that Harry's skill at Listening is an unsolved mystery?

So far, we know that:

Harry aquirred the skill from time and practice
The Gatekeeper has it as well:

"I understand you know how to Listen, too." (SK, 42)

But other than the times when Harry and the Gatekeeper use the skill, Listening is hardly (if at all) mentioned in the series. Do other wizards have the potential to learn how to Listen, and do they even know about the skill?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Grey Paladin on March 10, 2011, 06:38:19 AM
At the risk of repeating myself:

Here's one that's been bugging me for a while:

When Harry's house caught fire in Changes, why, exactly, didn't Mouse just start with his "Patented ALARM! Bark" to wake Mrs. Spunklecrief and the upstairs people?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: unfilthy on March 10, 2011, 12:53:21 PM
At the risk of repeating myself:

Here's one that's been bugging me for a while:

When Harry's house caught fire in Changes, why, exactly, didn't Mouse just start with his "Patented ALARM! Bark" to wake Mrs. Spunklecrief and the upstairs people?

I second this question.

It's amazing the number of things I ended up forgetting about by the time I reached the end of Changes, but in any other book, this would be a huge WTF for me, personally.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: parthagenon on March 11, 2011, 03:13:39 PM
Oops, missed that one earlier.  Added!
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: wildone654 on March 12, 2011, 11:22:17 PM
At the risk of repeating myself:

Here's one that's been bugging me for a while:

When Harry's house caught fire in Changes, why, exactly, didn't Mouse just start with his "Patented ALARM! Bark" to wake Mrs. Spunklecrief and the upstairs people?

Because then Jim would have had to come up with some other way to break Harry's back...
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: LogicMouseLives on March 14, 2011, 01:35:52 AM
Because then Jim would have had to come up with some other way to break Harry's back...

Shhh!
 ;D ;D
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Thork on March 15, 2011, 10:14:28 PM
Oops, missed that one earlier.  Added!

My guess is that Mouse's earlier fight with the Ick had depleted his spiritual batteries, as it were.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Lee3178 on March 16, 2011, 05:03:39 PM
Quote
When Harry's house caught fire in Changes, why, exactly, didn't Mouse just start with his "Patented ALARM! Bark" to wake Mrs. Spunklecrief and the upstairs people?

Ummm.  I think Molly had taken Mouse for walk or something.  They were not at the apartment when the eebs set it afire.  Just Harry. 
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Lee3178 on March 16, 2011, 05:14:17 PM
Has anyone mentioned Harry's invisible lady friend?  The one who guided his hand to his amulet in Storm Front and who Harry periodically smells--most recently in Changes at the church?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Grey Paladin on March 17, 2011, 10:53:42 PM
Ummm.  I think Molly had taken Mouse for walk or something.  They were not at the apartment when the eebs set it afire.  Just Harry. 

I'm afraid you're wrong on that one:  Molly actually yelled at Harry to look out, and Mouse was there.

Grey
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Lee3178 on March 20, 2011, 07:05:51 PM
Oops! Note to Lee: do not rely on your memory.  It ain't all that.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Grey Paladin on March 21, 2011, 05:03:13 AM
Okay, I'm starting to think that JB needs a CONTINUITY OBSESSED beta reader, because I just caught another plot-hole.

During the meeting with Nicky and the Nickelheads at Shedd Aquarium in Small Favor, after they raised their pentangle or whatever it was (pentagon? pentacle? pentagram?), to cage the Archive and shut her away from help...?

Why, exactly, did Anastasia Luccio, who was present and did have the item in question, fail to simply use her Warden's Sword-- made to cut through ANY enchantment-- to cut through the barrier and charge in to help with Murphy at her side, and Michael and Sanya not far behind?

Ooops.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: wardenferry419 on March 21, 2011, 12:14:26 PM
Can Luccio make a sword that can cut through Lucifer's magic? Possible but doubtful.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Magnus on March 21, 2011, 02:11:38 PM
Why, exactly, did Anastasia Luccio, who was present and did have the item in question, fail to simply use her Warden's Sword-- made to cut through ANY enchantment-- to cut through the barrier and charge in to help with Murphy at her side, and Michael and Sanya not far behind?

Ooops.
WOJ regarding the swords:

Quote
They don't cut through anything.  They are super good for cutting through/disrupting fields of magical energy.  They rip through magic-charged ectoplasm of the nevernever, like the kind demons make when they need a body to inhabit in the real world, like there's no tomorrow.  Otherwise, they are simply swords created by a master of the craft with centuries of experience from the finest alloys available at the time of their creation.

Jim
source: http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,2894.msg65377.html#msg65377
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Arkham8 on March 21, 2011, 04:48:25 PM
This may or may not be a relevant mystery, but I find it interesting.

How exactly could did Satan get the Fallen in the coins? One would assume that he wasn't powerful enough to get all 30 Fallen in the coins, especially given that Anduriel was his top general. Did Satan get God in on it? Or did Satan somehow trick them into the coins.

I realize that the popular consensus was that Satan just kinda did it, but I highly doubt he had the power to mystically confine and limit 30 of his peers just like that.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Landing on March 21, 2011, 06:02:06 PM
well the aren't really his peers, he is a Archangel they are just angels. His power level is a whole level of magnitude greater than theirs is. And he was the strongest if the archangels to begin with.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: knnn on March 21, 2011, 06:52:12 PM
Also remember that Soulfire and Hellfire are supposedly two sides of the same coin.  Soulfire is "the power of creation" == coming directly from the Creator?  It seems to Hellfire can at best comes from Satan, so are they really equal? 
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Grey Paladin on March 21, 2011, 08:08:25 PM
WOJ regarding the swords:
source: http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,2894.msg65377.html#msg65377

And in no way does that change my feelings.  He says they are "super good for cutting through/disrupting fields of magical energy."  The barrier in question was magical energy.  So she should have been able to do it.

And wardenfairy419?  That was simply Hellfire augmented magic, not Lucifer's personal magic.  Harry said the "practice version" done to capture Marcone was powerful and charged with helfire-- he didn't say it was from Lucifer himself, and I'm pretty sure he'd have known (if not that it was Lucifer, that was was from something deifically powerful) and said something.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: knnn on March 21, 2011, 08:23:01 PM
And in no way does that change my feelings.  He says they are "super good for cutting through/disrupting fields of magical energy."  The barrier in question was magical energy.  So she should have been able to do it.

And wardenfairy419?  That was simply Hellfire augmented magic, not Lucifer's personal magic.  Harry said the "practice version" done to capture Marcone was powerful and charged with helfire-- he didn't say it was from Lucifer himself, and I'm pretty sure he'd have known (if not that it was Lucifer, that was was from something deifically powerful) and said something.

Actually, in his rant in the chapel at the end of Small Favor, Harry specifically attributes the uber-circles to the "Prince of F***King Darkness".  When Uriel shows up, he pretty much confirms this by saying "maybe one archangel invested his strength in this situation overtly.  Maybe another did it quietly".

So yeah.  Satan did it.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Grey Paladin on March 22, 2011, 12:32:43 AM
I got the impression that it was more the whole mess that Harry was blaming on the PFD, but I suppose it's open to interpretation.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Ms Duck on March 22, 2011, 01:27:37 AM
Uriel said maybe.

There is, as yet, no proof satan is involved, or even exists in the DV. It ,may have been someone or something else. ( Baal, Tehob, Demogorgon, etc..)

second, there are quite a few thinsg more powerfull than the fallen in the DV; Mab and Titania are still listed by Harry as 'the most awesome thign he has ever seen with his sight.' and the queen mothers are levels above them.

so it would not surprise me to think that on the side of evil there are powers that consider nicodemus and co to be..pocket change.

even in the peom, when stan fell from heaven, the dragon in the darkness ( tehob) was there to meet him.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: sjsharks on March 22, 2011, 02:15:02 AM
WoJ says that the Denarians were kicked out of Hell by Satan himself, so I don't understand why you would question his existence in the DV
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: parthagenon on March 22, 2011, 02:55:33 AM
Lucifer is more or less confirmed to exist in the DV, by both WOJ and in-book text.  All references have been rather oblique and/or vague, though, so Duck's theory may be right, and Lucifer may not be the biggest guy in Hell.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Ms Duck on March 22, 2011, 03:04:33 AM
Becuase Lucifer is not Satan ?

Becuase there have been hundreda if not thousands of different version of 'who rules hell' ?

Becuase many of the older ones had a dark queen, the arch enemy of the white god?

Becuase middle age christian ones had a trinity of evil, as an oppsoite to the father,s on, holy ghost?

eetc, etc..
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Landing on March 22, 2011, 03:08:09 AM
Jim has a habit of going all in when he explores a certain mythology and have examples of all the different types out there. there are a lot of different sources for the devil/Satan/Lucifer/the dragon/prince of darkness/father of lies/etc. it might end up that Jim plays around with us some and makes them all be true so that you have one Satan one devil one Lucifer etc.

...or he could make them all be one being who got around a lot. we will just have to wait and see.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Ms Duck on March 22, 2011, 03:15:37 AM
I personally want to see Tehob.

really, really badly.

a great seven headed dragon rising from the waters like godzilla, speaking the voices of destruction with seven voices?

and Harry on the water beatle, realizeing his magic does not work over open water, and eh has his psitol and snark?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Ms Duck on March 22, 2011, 04:11:25 AM
I looked it up; unless I have the wrong quote, Jim does not say Satan or Lucifer, he says the 'big d'

Quote
Well.  Not quite freely, but MORE freely, certainly.  The Fallen bound in the coins are the freaking elite of Hell--everyone the big D didn't want trying to stab him in the back, basically.  If they were suddenly freed it would do all kinds of horrible things to about a million balances of power, with repercussions that would last for centuries. 

Which assumes that they /can/ be destroyed.  I mean, don't think that in 2,000 years, no one has ever TRIED it.  And there are still thirty of them kicking around.

Which isn't necessarily to say that it's impossible.  But it sure as Hell wouldn't be easy.  And given that, while in the coins, they ARE effectively frozen in carbonite without a human agent to assist them, containment certainly seems to be a prudent course.

Funny you should mention that whole notion about redeeming Lasciel . . . >

Jim
 
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: parthagenon on March 22, 2011, 05:29:41 AM
Yeah, it is open to interpretation, which is why I said oblique/vague.  Then again, for me at least, "big D" implies Devil, which implies Satan/Lucifer.  If it had been somebody else Jim was referring to, I would expect him to use another term, like "big bad" or something.  Anyway, as this is a questions thread, I'll go ahead and add "Who is in charge in Hell?" to the list.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: knnn on March 22, 2011, 01:13:35 PM
I got the impression that it was more the whole mess that Harry was blaming on the PFD, but I suppose it's open to interpretation.

Harry specifically says that Lucifer intervened twice.  If he was blaming the whole mess on him, I don't see why he would specify a number.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: OZ on March 23, 2011, 02:12:58 AM
Quote
even in the peom, when stan fell from heaven, the dragon in the darkness ( tehob) was there to meet him.
 
 
 

I know it was a typo but when I first read this I was wondering, Stan who?

To which poem do you refer? Paradise Lost?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on March 23, 2011, 03:04:52 AM
How exactly could did Satan get the Fallen in the coins? One would assume that he wasn't powerful enough to get all 30 Fallen in the coins, especially given that Anduriel was his top general. Did Satan get God in on it? Or did Satan somehow trick them into the coins.
I realize that the popular consensus was that Satan just kinda did it, but I highly doubt he had the power to mystically confine and limit 30 of his peers just like that.

We don't really have a handle on how much stronger archangels are than angels, it's not beyond plausibility to my mind that the thirty Denarians, strongest of their fallen angel peers though they be, are nonetheless, as a combined force, something DV Lucifer the fallen archangel can hold in the palm of one hand.

Given the timing, I can see it having something to do with the Harrowing of hell, either.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: sjsharks on March 23, 2011, 03:07:17 AM
We don't really have a handle on how much stronger archangels are than angels, it's not beyond plausibility to my mind that the thirty Denarians, strongest of their fallen angel peers though they be, are nonetheless, as a combined force, something DV Lucifer the fallen archangel can hold in the palm of one hand.

Given the timing, I can see it having something to do with the Harrowing of hell, either.

Jim has already said that they were bound into their coins because the Devil (Satan/Lucifer/whoever) was worried that they would try to take over, which means that their combined power of all 30 is at least enough to take him down.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Thork on March 23, 2011, 02:21:52 PM
Jim has already said that they were bound into their coins because the Devil (Satan/Lucifer/whoever) was worried that they would try to take over, which means that their combined power of all 30 is at least enough to take him down.

Maybe not enough to take him down, but at least enough to cause him real trouble.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Ms Duck on March 23, 2011, 07:01:37 PM
I know it was a typo but when I first read this I was wondering, Stan who?

To which poem do you refer? Paradise Lost?

Satan; and yes, paradise lost.

prior to the medieval period Satan was not considered to be the devil; Satan iteslf means 'accuser' ; he was god's district attorney..when your soul died, satan would speak your sins upon judgement day and  the messiah would act as your defense counsel. The whole satan= the devil thing got started as a mistranslation in revelations.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: OZ on March 23, 2011, 11:32:02 PM
Not to split hairs but it's revelation not revelations. The whole Lucifer= Satan=the devil is subject to a lot of debate but there is no definitive historical answer. Most Christians feel one way, the Jews another, if you feel that other traditions are speaking of the same being or beings you can come up with still more ideas. I don't (and won't after this post) want to wander into touchy topics but like most things dealing with religion, there are many ideas. While there may be some that agree with you, the idea that all three names referred to the same being was definitely around before medeval times.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Ms Duck on March 24, 2011, 01:56:38 AM
it's written for non scholars, but a very good history on Satan is at:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Satan (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Satan)

and JIm, being an old school DnD nut ( he has seven vampires, five types of werewolf, etc..)

this is closer to what I think we will meet:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DemonLordsAndArchDevils (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DemonLordsAndArchDevils)
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: OZ on March 24, 2011, 06:36:29 AM
Quote
it's written for non scholars, but a very good history on Satan is at:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Satan


I only skimmed this but I didn't see anything that I disagree with. Different people, different faiths, different times = different views. There has also been some heavy borrowing of course. The horned, hooved version of the devil, for instance, came straight from Pan. ( Of course if we stuck with the hooved, horned version in the Dresdenverse, he might be the oldest of the Gruffs even stronger than the magician that Harry met. )  I would not be surprised if you were right on with your guess as to what we will find in the DV.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on March 26, 2011, 04:11:59 PM
Jim has already said that they were bound into their coins because the Devil (Satan/Lucifer/whoever) was worried that they would try to take over, which means that their combined power of all 30 is at least enough to take him down.

Check the wording on the quote; I think you'll find it doesn't actually say that,  just that they were the strongest among their peers and caused the Morningstar the most trouble; which does not unambiguously separate "potential coup d'etat" from "a persistent set of irritating mosquitoes" as relative power levels go.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: The Fish on March 26, 2011, 11:27:36 PM
Sorry, havn't had time time to read all 17 pages, read most though, so i apologize if someone has already said this.

Will Harry giving Bob a name be significant?
Has Elaine fulfilled ALL of her obligations to Summer?
how long has the black council been around?
Will other vampire court power increase with the demise of the RC, regardless of the rest of the power vacuum?
Will Ivy go crazy? (i think it was mentioned as a possibility near the end of Small Favor)
How old is Bob (we know he's over 600), and are any of his former masters (before kemmler) significant?
Did Kumori survive as well as Cowl?

Also, on the Red vamps taking over from the mayan gods, I think that when the conquistadores first came to the new world, some native peoples thought they looked like their gods and worshipped them, making it easier for the spaniards to take over( at first) don't quote me on that, though.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: The Fish on March 28, 2011, 01:45:19 AM
I found something interesting.
on p. 255 in the Grave Peril paperback, it mentions that Thomas was burned by lea when she gave him a kiss. This implies that Lea is in love with someone, so my question is, Who is Lea in love with and is it significant?

oh, and it was said a few pages before that Lea kissed Harry, but this was proven to be fairy glamour.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Ms Duck on March 28, 2011, 01:49:02 AM
annother possibilty with lea is her lips are just that dang cold

or that she was marking him for soem reason

Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on March 28, 2011, 03:26:42 AM
annother possibilty with lea is her lips are just that dang cold

Yep.  Note that Maeve's mouth freezes lemonade in PG; the kiss in GP could be freezer-burn plain and simple.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: parthagenon on March 28, 2011, 03:33:57 AM
I'll add the Elaine question, and append the Kumori one to "(How) did Cowl survive?".  For Bob, though, the first question was pretty much answered by his responding to his name in DB, and the second is probably unimportant.  The questions about Ivy and especially the power vacuum are too vague, I think- more in the realm of speculation than solid questions.

As for Lea, that's already up there.  Although, that's a good observation about the cold- I haven't reread GP for quite a while, so does anyone have the specific quote, or remember if there was any ambiguity between Thomas being actually burned, or Thomas being frostbitten?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: sjsharks on March 28, 2011, 03:50:35 AM
Oooohhh it was definitely a burn

Quote from: Grave Peril paperback page 254-255
I glanced over at him. There was a mark on his neck, black and angry red, like a brand, in the shape of lovely feminine lips. I would have thought it lipstick, but i sensed a faint odor of burnt meat in the air.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on March 28, 2011, 01:31:13 PM
Oooohhh it was definitely a burn

Plausibly a freezer burn, though.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Shecky on March 28, 2011, 01:46:08 PM
Plausibly a freezer burn, though.

Doesn't smell like burned meat.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: knnn on March 28, 2011, 05:20:18 PM
New mystery:  is it "white for protection" (Grave Peril, page 200), or "blue for defense" (Proven Guilty page 155)?

p.s. right after, it lists "white for purity".

Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Contrarius on March 28, 2011, 07:08:28 PM
New mystery:  is it "white for protection" (Grave Peril, page 200), or "blue for defense" (Proven Guilty page 155)?

p.s. right after, it lists "white for purity".

Well......if you wanted to reconcile the two, you could say that "purity" would "protect" one when calling up an Evil Demon. The "white for protection" consisted of white candles in a summoning circle, after all.....
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: knnn on March 28, 2011, 07:40:53 PM
Well......if you wanted to reconcile the two, you could say that "purity" would "protect" one when calling up an Evil Demon. The "white for protection" consisted of white candles in a summoning circle, after all.....

Nice!
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Torvaun on March 30, 2011, 02:15:46 AM
You have an asterisk next to "Who hit Harry's car?"  I'd like to know what the consensus is on that.

Consequences of Molly being taken to Arctis Tor: Harry went to Arctis Tor, as did Charity, Murphy, and Thomas.
Consequences of Harry going to Arctis Tor: Harry discovered Hellfire was used in an attack.  Harry discovered Slate was still alive.  Harry discovered Lea was encased in ice and being cured of madness through exquisite torment.  Harry ended Scarecrow.  Summer Fire met Winter's wellspring.  A bunch of fetches got killed.  Some snow ogres got killed.
Consequences of Harry discovering Hellfire was used to attack Arctis Tor: Nicodemus learned that Hellfire was used to assault Arctis Tor.
I have the feeling that this is way more important to Mab than Harry sucker-punching a fetch, no matter how badass it is.  Also, I disagree with the theory that Scarecrow had outsider stuff going on.  Harry's fire was stopping after a couple feet of travel, not immediately before hitting Scarecrow.  That's Winter choking it out until Summer countered it.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: sjsharks on March 30, 2011, 02:52:58 AM
You have an asterisk next to "Who hit Harry's car?"  I'd like to know what the consensus is on that.

Consequences of Molly being taken to Arctis Tor: Harry went to Arctis Tor, as did Charity, Murphy, and Thomas.
Consequences of Harry going to Arctis Tor: Harry discovered Hellfire was used in an attack.  Harry discovered Slate was still alive.  Harry discovered Lea was encased in ice and being cured of madness through exquisite torment.  Harry ended Scarecrow.  Summer Fire met Winter's wellspring.  A bunch of fetches got killed.  Some snow ogres got killed.
Consequences of Harry discovering Hellfire was used to attack Arctis Tor: Nicodemus learned that Hellfire was used to assault Arctis Tor.
I have the feeling that this is way more important to Mab than Harry sucker-punching a fetch, no matter how badass it is.  Also, I disagree with the theory that Scarecrow had outsider stuff going on.  Harry's fire was stopping after a couple feet of travel, not immediately before hitting Scarecrow.  That's Winter choking it out until Summer countered it.

The fact that Summer's fire effected the Scarecrow at all means it did not have Outsider stuff, because only Mortal magic effects the Outsiders
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: cass on March 30, 2011, 05:32:21 AM
The fact that Summer's fire effected the Scarecrow at all means it did not have Outsider stuff, because only Mortal magic effects the Outsiders

We know that only mortal magic can summon them into the (mortal) world, anyway.  Could you tell me which book (WN?) I should look in for the passage about mortal magic?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: sjsharks on March 30, 2011, 05:34:56 AM
We know that only mortal magic can summon them into the (mortal) world, anyway.  Could you tell me which book (WN?) I should look in for the passage about mortal magic?

I don't remember what book it was from, I may just be mis-remembering when it says only mortal magic can summon them. Does anyone else remember?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Ms Duck on March 30, 2011, 05:53:33 AM
several; one is Harry and Eb talking at end of PG...when they conclude the black council includes mortal wizards.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on March 30, 2011, 03:50:19 PM
Consequences of Harry discovering Hellfire was used to attack Arctis Tor: Nicodemus learned that Hellfire was used to assault Arctis Tor.

Nicodemus has this apparently shocked reaction at precisely a point where he is working really hard to distract Harry, so relying on it being a real reaction seems a bit dodgy to me.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on March 30, 2011, 03:53:03 PM
The fact that Summer's fire effected the Scarecrow at all means it did not have Outsider stuff, because only Mortal magic effects the Outsiders

I don't think so.

There is a pattern through the books of villains being enhanced with added powers, but still keeping their original nature.  If the Scarecrow is still basically a Winter fetch with an Outsider power-up, Summer fire should still be able to effect its Winter nature, in much the same way as being shot with mortal weapons can injure Lord Raith in BR or Vittorio in WN despite them having Outsider power-ups.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: JinElusion on March 31, 2011, 12:54:48 AM
I don't know if this has already been asked (i missed a few replies in these 18 pages) and its more of an add-on to other related questions.   There has been at least 4 instances where Harry feels a female presence or hears a female voice that he says he should recognize. The one i just ran across happens in Death Masks when he is having nightmares:

"A woman who seemed familiar but whom i did not recognize shook her head and drew her hand from left to right. The dream-scenery faded to black in the wake of her motion. She turned to me, dark eyes intent and said, "You need rest."- Death Masks, pg. 150

The most ready answer i can think of is his mom. Did she somehow create a shadow inside of him the same way denarians do? Nicodemus did say that he used to know and respect her. A possibility maybe. Food for thought.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: sjsharks on March 31, 2011, 04:10:34 AM
I don't know if this has already been asked (i missed a few replies in these 18 pages) and its more of an add-on to other related questions.   There has been at least 4 instances where Harry feels a female presence or hears a female voice that he says he should recognize. The one i just ran across happens in Death Masks when he is having nightmares:

"A woman who seemed familiar but whom i did not recognize shook her head and drew her hand from left to right. The dream-scenery faded to black in the wake of her motion. She turned to me, dark eyes intent and said, "You need rest."- Death Masks, pg. 150

The most ready answer i can think of is his mom. Did she somehow create a shadow inside of him the same way denarians do? Nicodemus did say that he used to know and respect her. A possibility maybe. Food for thought.

We had a big thread on this idea not to long ago, I don't remember what our end ideas where though
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: JinElusion on March 31, 2011, 04:49:34 AM
Sad i missed that thread then, cause it has been bothering me for awhile. Anybody remember the outcome?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Contrarius on March 31, 2011, 04:50:12 AM
I don't remember that thread -- but it sounds like his mom to me.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: sjsharks on March 31, 2011, 06:15:33 AM
Sad i missed that thread then, cause it has been bothering me for awhile. Anybody remember the outcome?

I'm a little sleepy right now, but I will try to find it tomorrow
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Ms Duck on April 02, 2011, 02:36:15 AM
I think the conclusion, and there have been several threads, its a popular question..is that it's mommy.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: JinElusion on April 04, 2011, 06:10:37 PM
I assume so to. However, my real question is how is she doing it? What function is allowing her to do it?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: The Fish on April 04, 2011, 10:52:44 PM
If it his his mother, she'd probably be doing it by using that same imprint thing that allowed her to talk to Harry through Thomas in Blood Rites. if it's Elaine, probably through their mental connection, but amplified. If it's Lash, probably from inside his head. If it's lea (i think this least likely, but hey) well, she probably has some crazy fae magic that lets her do that. I have a feeling that it'll happen again before we figure it out though

Have we heard this voice before, like we did in Changes? I don't remember it before. . .
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: sjsharks on April 05, 2011, 01:52:02 AM
If it his his mother, she'd probably be doing it by using that same imprint thing that allowed her to talk to Harry through Thomas in Blood Rites. if it's Elaine, probably through their mental connection, but amplified. If it's Lash, probably from inside his head. If it's lea (i think this least likely, but hey) well, she probably has some crazy fae magic that lets her do that. I have a feeling that it'll happen again before we figure it out though

Have we heard this voice before, like we did in Changes? I don't remember it before. . .

We have heard the voice 3 times total, all though I can't remember all 3
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Ms Duck on April 05, 2011, 02:30:08 AM
first time was at the end of storm front, so I don't think it's lash... lol.

it's Mommy.

 ;D
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: sjsharks on April 05, 2011, 04:31:24 AM
first time was at the end of storm front, so I don't think it's lash... lol.

it's Mommy.

 ;D

or Lea and/or Mab
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Arkham8 on April 05, 2011, 12:48:29 PM
Or Mommy.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: The Fish on April 06, 2011, 01:18:34 AM
If it's Mommy, i wonder if Thomas gets those sometimes, too
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: contraducktory on April 06, 2011, 04:48:16 PM
From Summer Knight.  Martha Liberty says to Ebenezar "You know what he was meant to be".  I think this needs to be added to the unanswered questions list.  What was Harry meant to be?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Ms Duck on April 06, 2011, 09:55:05 PM
Kemmler?

Isnt that on the list?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: The Fish on April 06, 2011, 10:28:15 PM
Where is this Harry=Kemmler theory coming from that everyone keeeps talking about?????
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: sjsharks on April 06, 2011, 10:29:49 PM
Where is this Harry=Kemmler theory coming from that everyone keeeps talking about?????


Harry was born the day they killed Kemmler the last time I believe
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Landing on April 06, 2011, 10:50:25 PM
I thought it was just the same year
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Ms Duck on April 06, 2011, 10:56:11 PM
It comes from me, and it's a one of my pet theories :)

Kemmler died 1961, probably during an acension attempt

Harry born 1971, oct 31..which is the day you use for such things

then when you throw in various 'what he was meant to be comments'

Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: sjsharks on April 06, 2011, 10:59:51 PM
WARNING: don't read Duck's "pet theories" unless you want your mind asploded... they are almost all completely impossible to prove wrong and make no sense/perfect sense at the same time ;D
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Ms Duck on April 06, 2011, 11:03:33 PM
Thank You !

and read everyone else's when you are there:

http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,24909.0.html (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,24909.0.html)
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: tigerj13 on April 07, 2011, 04:22:20 PM
Sorry, I just saw this thread... which is awesome.  Question I have, what came through from the other side.  Everyone assumed it was the Nightmare, but it was supposed to be this HUGE thing, and the nightmare turned out to just be a very focused ghost (this was in Grave Peril)
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: The Fish on April 07, 2011, 10:53:30 PM
in response to your sig, i know soooo many people who pulll amazing wizeass comments out of their sleeves on the SLIGHTEST provocation, so quickly that no one even knows what happened.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Sydna on April 07, 2011, 11:34:59 PM
Stormfront - When did Marcone learn about magic. Did he know it before Harry and him soulgazed.

Where did he find out about Vadderung.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Ms Duck on April 08, 2011, 01:40:54 AM
I am begining to suspect he allways knew...
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: ImpishMortal on April 08, 2011, 09:56:04 PM
Okay, I'm starting to think that JB needs a CONTINUITY OBSESSED beta reader, because I just caught another plot-hole.

During the meeting with Nicky and the Nickelheads at Shedd Aquarium in Small Favor, after they raised their pentangle or whatever it was (pentagon? pentacle? pentagram?), to cage the Archive and shut her away from help...?

Why, exactly, did Anastasia Luccio, who was present and did have the item in question, fail to simply use her Warden's Sword-- made to cut through ANY enchantment-- to cut through the barrier and charge in to help with Murphy at her side, and Michael and Sanya not far behind?

Ooops.

It stands to reason that Peabody probably was already influencing her at this point. And since we don't know who or what comprises the Black Council at this point, I think it acceptable to postulate that at least one member of the Denarians is on it. Therefore, Luccio's inaction in disrupting the barrier (assuming she could, of course) only served the Black Council's purpose.

Here's a question: Did Lash's last comment before "self-destructing" seem cryptic to anyone else? I don't have White Night nearby, but if I recall correctly, she said that she would explain everything later. For some reason, I always felt like she took a huge chunk of Harry's life force and used it to create a physical/astral form in order to come back later. Remember Bob made a big deal about how much spirit damage Harry had taken. Any thoughts?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Contrarius on April 08, 2011, 10:49:20 PM
I'm not sure that the Warden's swords DO cut through any enchantment. I thought it was only the Swords of the Cross did that? Have I forgotten it somewhere or other?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Landing on April 08, 2011, 11:01:05 PM
nope its the warden's swards.
Quote
The Wardens toted silver swords with them whenever there was a fight at hand. I had seen them unravel complex, powerful magic at the will of their wielders, which is one hell of an advantage when taking on anything using magic as a weapon.
WN
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Contrarius on April 08, 2011, 11:25:53 PM
nope its the warden's swards.WN

Interesting, thanks for posting that. Although it doesn't say "any" enchantment, so that might give us an out for Luccio's failure to act....

For that matter, if they could actually unravel ANY enchantment -- as that unravelling cloth did in Summer Knight -- then they should be able to "cure" things like the half-turned Red Court vamps. And we know they can't do that, or Harry would've gotten somebody to lay them on Susan already (or something similar). So that makes me think that there are limits to the enchantments they can affect...
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: ImpishMortal on April 08, 2011, 11:34:21 PM
Interesting, thanks for posting that. Although it doesn't say "any" enchantment, so that might give us an out for Luccio's failure to act....

For that matter, if they could actually unravel ANY enchantment -- as that unravelling cloth did in Summer Knight -- then they should be able to "cure" things like the half-turned Red Court vamps. And we know they can't do that, or Harry would've gotten somebody to lay them on Susan already (or something similar). So that makes me think that there are limits to the enchantments they can affect...

Maybe it's more along the lines of spells/wards and not necessarily objects/creatures that are magical in nature.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Ms Duck on April 09, 2011, 01:37:35 AM
well for one thing, when they unravela n enchantment, they don't dispell it. it explodes.. look at the whampire's protection bands.

she may have just looked at the pentagram, done some quick math, and thought ' oh heck no'
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: parthagenon on April 09, 2011, 04:11:42 AM
Also, the RC infection may not be so much an enchantment as an alteration in the nature of the being.  And even if it was an enchantment, it's a full-body, internalized one- breaking it with a warden's sword would be like trying to surgically destroy every virus in the body to cure a disease. 

As for the pentagram, Ms Duck has a pretty plausible explanation.  If the enchantment is violently released, slashing blindly through something like that would be somewhat suicidal.  Actually, I don't remember off the top of my head, but I don't think Luccio was even there for the climactic battle of SmF.  It was just Harry and the Knights on Demonreach, with the rest as backup.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Contrarius on April 09, 2011, 04:18:38 AM
Also, the RC infection may not be so much an enchantment as an alteration in the nature of the being.

It's gotta be an enchantment in some sense, because Harry believed he could have cured Susan by using the unravelling cloth.

Quote
And even if it was an enchantment, it's a full-body, internalized one- breaking it with a warden's sword would be like trying to surgically destroy every virus in the body to cure a disease.  

This is the problem I see. Would the sword have to literally slice through Susan in order to "cure" her? Dunno!

Quote
As for the pentagram, Ms Duck has a pretty plausible explanation.  If the enchantment is violently released, slashing blindly through something like that would be somewhat suicidal.

Maybe, maybe not. Harry broke the pentagram (edited -- sorry, "circle") on the island by laying into it with his staff. As he said "It only takes a monkey with a big stick to take it apart." But that, of course, is assuming that you have access to the physical foundations of the spell.

Quote
Actually, I don't remember off the top of my head, but I don't think Luccio was even there for the climactic battle of SmF.  It was just Harry and the Knights on Demonreach, with the rest as backup.

Right. But they were talking about the Shedd Aquarium, where Luccio was stuck outside while the Denarians were fighting Harry, Kincaid, and Ivy inside.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Ms Duck on April 09, 2011, 04:23:41 AM
i think there is a major difference between an incredibly complex and artistic- a work of genius- circle of containment and that gigantic,a tching, insanly destructive piece of magic in the hellfire pentagram.

you can disrupt circles from the oustide, with apparently little of no energy being released.

methinks hellfire go boom.

look at the sobs who landed in it..
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: parthagenon on April 09, 2011, 04:40:47 AM
Right. But they were talking about the Shedd Aquarium, where Luccio was stuck outside while the Denarians were fighting Harry, Kincaid, and Ivy inside.

Ah.  Thanks, I was getting several different battles confused in my mind.

Also, Hellfire is a raw force, unstable but way powerful- not a spell itself.  If the Denarians were using it to augment their pentagram spell, the way Harry uses it to boost his own fire spells, cutting through that enchantment may very well destroy only the framework spell and completely miss the Hellfire itself, releasing all that power at once- not pleasant for Harry and company.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: The Fish on April 09, 2011, 09:48:00 PM
it's possible that the hellfire pentagram also wouldn't have a solid physical base to crack, as it was mentioned that satan himself erected it.

Wait, why was he working with the denarians? i thought they had a falling out? ???
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Ms Duck on April 09, 2011, 09:52:15 PM
Too many unkowns to ponder. I personally think the big d who imprisoned them is tehob, the black goddess arch enemy of the white god. That would make bthe fallen angel satan the OP uriel. This assumption is baed entirely on me thinking jim will not be able to pass up a seven headed dragon as bad guy ;)
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Arkham8 on April 10, 2011, 12:33:39 AM
Too many unkowns to ponder. I personally think the big d who imprisoned them is tehob, the black goddess arch enemy of the white god. That would make bthe fallen angel satan the OP uriel. This assumption is baed entirely on me thinking jim will not be able to pass up a seven headed dragon as bad guy ;)
As cool as that would be, I don't think we have the pages to cover the logistics of several "Lords of Hell", if you will.


However, Hell's Bell's (book one of the final trilogy, correct?) does sound summarily apocalyptic in the sense of Literal Hell. Here's for me hoping you're right about the seven-headed beast, and hopefully the harlot that sits upon the throne...
(click to show/hide)

New thought based off of that:
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Ms Duck on April 10, 2011, 12:48:30 AM
it's the old 'think like Jim' idea.

you are jim, and need a big bad. do you choose:

' a hot androgenous blonde with wings and a golden sword?' ( lucifer)

' a tall dark man with cloven hooves and a pitchfork ' ( evangelist satan)

' a  vast and terrible creature of smoke, bone and flame?' ( Abbaddon)

' a godzilla sized dragon with seven heads whop arises from the sea?' ( Tehob/ Tiamat)

E- all of the above. on crack.

lets see..for werwolves he chose : E. for vampires : E. for elves: E. for necromancers : E.

I sense a patern here..
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Arkham8 on April 10, 2011, 12:52:48 AM
I sense a patern here..
True. However, the logistics of using many different versions of Satan runs the risk of drawing heat from the Christian sect. Lord knows I have a few Aunts who would go ballistic at the thought of someone portraying their Satan wrong.

Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: AlbinoRaven on April 10, 2011, 04:10:15 AM
From Summer Knight.  Martha Liberty says to Ebenezar "You know what he was meant to be".  I think this needs to be added to the unanswered questions list.  What was Harry meant to be?
I was re-reading and it bothers me there's not more discussion on this... its very interesting. She could just be referring to him being Justin's protege/black magic servant, but it certainly doesn't sound like that. It kind of goes with the theory that Harry was meant to be something, maybe someone planned his birth coincidences...

Raven  8)
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Ms Duck on April 10, 2011, 04:27:38 AM
there was a lot of discussion when it first came out:)

quite a few folks think it's a refernce to him being possible the re born kemmler, as is his little monolouge in TC when waiting for the WC on the isle.

there is a WOJ someplace that the WC has all the facts they need to figure everythign about Harry out, they just dont share with each other.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on April 10, 2011, 04:05:42 PM
I was re-reading and it bothers me there's not more discussion on this... its very interesting. She could just be referring to him being Justin's protege/black magic servant, but it certainly doesn't sound like that. It kind of goes with the theory that Harry was meant to be something, maybe someone planned his birth coincidences...

It seems very unlikely to me that Maggie and company did not plan for him to be the Outsiderbane he is.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: AlbinoRaven on April 10, 2011, 08:41:12 PM
It seems very unlikely to me that Maggie and company did not plan for him to be the Outsiderbane he is.
double...negative...hurt...head...

I definently think there was some plan for the outsider bane, but I meant that it could be justified to say she was simply referring to his being under justin as a counter to that argument that Martha was referring to the outsider bane. I guess I should have stated that, and I thought I did, oops. I also did a forum search and I didn't see much in results, maybe my search was incomplete.

The question is is Martha aware of his outsider powers, or was she simply oblivious to the other things Harry was supposed to be? Or is there another added future someone had planned for Harry?

Raven  8)
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on April 10, 2011, 09:59:44 PM
The question is is Martha aware of his outsider powers, or was she simply oblivious to the other things Harry was supposed to be? Or is there another added future someone had planned for Harry?

yeah, the thing about "meant to be" is who was doing the meaning ?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on April 10, 2011, 10:04:35 PM
double...negative...hurt...head...

"You are one of the least benightedly unintelligent people it has been my profound lack of pleasure not to be able to avoid meeting."
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: The Fish on April 11, 2011, 10:43:54 PM
yeah, the thing about "meant to be" is who was doing the meaning ?

I think this is the real question. by his mother? Mab? Justin? Black council? (how long have they been around, anyway?) the White Council? other unknowns? and I almost completely agree with the "all of the above. on crack" theory, with the sole addition of "plus one more"
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: parthagenon on April 12, 2011, 06:00:01 PM
"You are one of the least benightedly unintelligent people it has been my profound lack of pleasure not to be able to avoid meeting."

*throws a heavy object at neuro's head*  Criminal abuse of the English language.  For shame.

I personally thought it was a figure of speech- no one person orchestrated the entire thing, but a bunch of people and circumstances pushed Harry towards an expected or inescapable role.  Others, like Martha Liberty, just noticed the most likely outcome.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: ImpishMortal on April 13, 2011, 04:28:45 PM
Also, the RC infection may not be so much an enchantment as an alteration in the nature of the being.  And even if it was an enchantment, it's a full-body, internalized one- breaking it with a warden's sword would be like trying to surgically destroy every virus in the body to cure a disease. 

As for the pentagram, Ms Duck has a pretty plausible explanation.  If the enchantment is violently released, slashing blindly through something like that would be somewhat suicidal.  Actually, I don't remember off the top of my head, but I don't think Luccio was even there for the climactic battle of SmF.  It was just Harry and the Knights on Demonreach, with the rest as backup.

I don't think that explanation works, according to Harry's musings about Morgan's sword in SF.
 
Quote
The sword wasn't the most dangerous thing about him, not by a long shot, but it was his symbol of authority given to him by the White Council, and if rumors were true, it was enchanted to cut through the spells of anyone resisting him.

It would stand to reason that any magical ward (even one with a Hellfire bonus!) would fall under said category and that a Warden could destroy one without harming themselves (unless it was containing something nasty ;)). Otherwise, the swords are completely useless.

On the topic of Susan's infection, my belief is that she was fundamentally altered into a magical being. The sword would only be useful in wounding/dismembering magical beings, unless said being was a magical construct.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: ImpishMortal on April 13, 2011, 04:43:08 PM
Oh and here's an unsolved mystery to add to the list:

Who is Victor Sells?

We never really find out who he is really, other than his wife stating that he was not speaking to his family (to her knowledge), nor did he really speak about them with her. Perhaps he has an as-yet-to-be-revealed insidious background?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: derrick on April 13, 2011, 08:00:29 PM
Who is Victor Sells?

A former employee of SilverCo.

Here's a train of thought to consider:
Victor worked a well-paying job at SilverCo until he was fired for reasons unknown.
Victor then took a relatively late-life interest in magic.
His next 'business' venture was making Three-Eye potions/drugs by using kinky sex rituals/rites.
Silverlight is the porn studio that was trying to put Arturo Genosio's company out of business in BR.
Silverlight is family owned and operated by the White Court.

Jim heavily uses the word silver to 'tag' or describe the White Court and it's members--from clothing to how their eyes look when they're 'vamping out'.

How much do you believe in coincidence in arcane mystery novels?  8)
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Contrarius on April 13, 2011, 08:08:37 PM
Good catch!
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: ImpishMortal on April 13, 2011, 08:17:28 PM
A former employee of SilverCo.

Here's a train of thought to consider:
Victor worked a well-paying job at SilverCo until he was fired for reasons unknown.
Victor then took a relatively late-life interest in magic.
His next 'business' venture was making Three-Eye potions/drugs by using kinky sex rituals/rites.
Silverlight is the porn studio that was trying to put Arturo Genosio's company out of business in BR.
Silverlight is family owned and operated by the White Court.

Jim heavily uses the word silver to 'tag' or describe the White Court and it's members--from clothing to how their eyes look when they're 'vamping out'.

How much do you believe in coincidence in arcane mystery novels?  8)


Very interesting idea. Perhaps a member of the White Court has a place on the Black Council and thereby extended their influence on Sells in some way? It would only support my theory that the Black Council would have at least one member from each group with any supernatural power/influence.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: uncanny on April 15, 2011, 12:29:12 PM
I don't think that explanation works, according to Harry's musings about Morgan's sword in SF.
 
It would stand to reason that any magical ward (even one with a Hellfire bonus!) would fall under said category and that a Warden could destroy one without harming themselves (unless it was containing something nasty ;)). Otherwise, the swords are completely useless.

On the topic of Susan's infection, my belief is that she was fundamentally altered into a magical being. The sword would only be useful in wounding/dismembering magical beings, unless said being was a magical construct.
A small question still bugs me.  Why didn't the other Wardens use their swords on Harry's crystal ward at the end of TC?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: derrick on April 15, 2011, 06:28:12 PM
A small question still bugs me.  Why didn't the other Wardens use their swords on Harry's crystal ward at the end of TC?

Short answer: Boom.

Quote from: Turn Coat
“Might want to take a few steps back before you do,” I said. “If anything but the proper sequence takes it apart, it explodes. It’ll take out the cottage. And the tower. And the top of the hill. The kid and Morgan should be fine, though.”

I'd be willing to bet that using a Warden's Sword to sunder magic isn't like pointing a sonic handheld tool at something and pressing a button.  I reckon you'd need some understanding of the (possibly volatile) magics involved, or it could end up being a "thus kablowie, thus death" situation, or perhaps a "sorry, I just sundered the fundamental magics that keeping you breathing from your body" situation.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: SAZ on April 15, 2011, 06:34:30 PM
Quote
Oh and here's an unsolved mystery to add to the list:

Who is Victor Sells?


Don’t know who he is, but as a character/plot device I think Victor Sells might be JB’s wink and a nod to Roger Zelazny. In RZ’s 6th book of the Amber series a fellow named Victor Melman was a low level wizard who was used as a puppet to try and kill off the book’s main character Merlin. Merlin was caught somewhat by surprise and ended up killing VM before he could get much useful information from him, thus leaving plot threads hanging and mysteries left unsolved for a while.

I see Victor Sells as a low level wizard who was a puppet, and who got killed by Harry before Harry could get much information from him. Had Harry known more about who trained VS earlier, it could have been helpful to Harry.  
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: phoenixjustice on April 16, 2011, 05:22:48 PM
You think it's possible that Mavra trained Victor Sells? She trained Bianca, so it wouldn't be surprising if she trained others as well.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: AlbinoRaven on April 16, 2011, 08:56:59 PM
Very interesting idea. Perhaps a member of the White Court has a place on the Black Council and thereby extended their influence on Sells in some way? It would only support my theory that the Black Council would have at least one member from each group with any supernatural power/influence.
Madeline? She was an obvious jerk who really understood nothing, but if someone smart enough just told her what to do she would do it... its not like she has to know magic, pass a few books, tell him where to learn, etc. He was a weakish wizard...

         Raven  8)
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: The Fish on April 17, 2011, 08:04:46 PM
A former employee of SilverCo.

Here's a train of thought to consider:
Victor worked a well-paying job at SilverCo until he was fired for reasons unknown.
Victor then took a relatively late-life interest in magic.
His next 'business' venture was making Three-Eye potions/drugs by using kinky sex rituals/rites.
Silverlight is the porn studio that was trying to put Arturo Genosio's company out of business in BR.
Silverlight is family owned and operated by the White Court.

Jim heavily uses the word silver to 'tag' or describe the White Court and it's members--from clothing to how their eyes look when they're 'vamping out'.

How much do you believe in coincidence in arcane mystery novels?  8)

I think you're on to something, there. Could Sells have been working for someone in the White Court, and not necesarily just house raith?


Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Thork on April 18, 2011, 01:37:25 PM

Don’t know who he is, but as a character/plot device I think Victor Sells might be JB’s wink and a nod to Roger Zelazny. In RZ’s 6th book of the Amber series a fellow named Victor Melman was a low level wizard who was used as a puppet to try and kill off the book’s main character Merlin. Merlin was caught somewhat by surprise and ended up killing VM before he could get much useful information from him, thus leaving plot threads hanging and mysteries left unsolved for a while.

I see Victor Sells as a low level wizard who was a puppet, and who got killed by Harry before Harry could get much information from him. Had Harry known more about who trained VS earlier, it could have been helpful to Harry.  


The subltest possible wink/nod to Zelazny I've seen in the books so far is a character named "Sandra Marling" in Proven Guilty; there's a character named "Dra Marling" in Zelazny's Isle of the Dead. Could be coincidence, could be Butcher's subconscious, but mildly interesting either way.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: derrick on April 19, 2011, 08:26:56 AM
I think you're on to something, there. Could Sells have been working for someone in the White Court, and not necesarily just house raith?

Whoever Victor was working for, they knew about the heart-ripping curse used by the Red Court as well.  I doubt that knowledge of powerful blood magic, even as weak as Victor's version was, would be given to a low-level operative to pass along to an even lower-level 'cut-off' sorcerer.  It was likely a more direct passing of information.  Mavra or a(nother) member of the Black Council would be a likely bet.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: derrick on April 19, 2011, 08:43:49 AM
The subltest possible wink/nod to Zelazny I've seen in the books so far is a character named "Sandra Marling" in Proven Guilty; there's a character named "Dra Marling" in Zelazny's Isle of the Dead. Could be coincidence, could be Butcher's subconscious, but mildly interesting either way.

Sandra Marling is interesting in another way.  She was the convention chairwoman who would have hired Madrigal Raith (aka Darby Crane) well in advance to be the guest of honor at SplatterCon(!!!), which provided a convenient decoy while Molly was...inadvertently summoning phobophages.   Sandra also gave Molly the idea to use fear to beat addiction, which Molly promptly used to screw with her friend's heads.

Furthermore, Molly met Sandra while doing community service at a homeless shelter...like the one that Mavra used as a base in Blood Rites.  That one's a little tenuous, though.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: MacShidhe on April 19, 2011, 02:37:02 PM
Furthermore, Molly met Sandra while doing community service at a homeless shelter...like the one that Mavra used as a base in Blood Rites.  That one's a little tenuous, though.

It's a good place for a Skavis WCV, tho
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: JinElusion on April 19, 2011, 05:28:16 PM
I see that the question of who hit Harry's car is starred. Who do we have doing it and what clues led us there? Just wondering because it's been bothering me for a while.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: The Fish on April 19, 2011, 10:33:51 PM
Yes i was wondering the same thing. I didn't think we had any information on that.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: AlbinoRaven on April 20, 2011, 12:25:07 AM
I see that the question of who hit Harry's car is starred. Who do we have doing it and what clues led us there? Just wondering because it's been bothering me for a while.
Problem is we weren't really given any clues... though the car is reminiscent of the car that Quintus Cassius was driving, obviously he's not longer alive...

Raven  8)
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: JinElusion on April 20, 2011, 06:09:57 AM
Problem is we weren't really given any clues... though the car is reminiscent of the car that Quintus Cassius was driving, obviously he's not longer alive...

Raven  8)

Then why is it starred?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: kimluvs2read on April 20, 2011, 12:40:50 PM
This may have already been answered but I didn't have time to read the whole thread, is there a Mysteries Solved page? I am sure at least a few have been solved. Thanks
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Lash Dresden on April 20, 2011, 03:34:49 PM
I see that the question of who hit Harry's car is starred. Who do we have doing it and what clues led us there? Just wondering because it's been bothering me for a while.
I think the speculation is that it was Madrigal Raith (and also Madrigal who planted the bomb in Murphny's car).
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Ms Duck on April 20, 2011, 09:25:27 PM
My specualtion si that the same person did all four attempts

car

car bomb

hired gun

rifle shot

Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: AlbinoRaven on April 20, 2011, 09:45:02 PM
Then why is it starred?
because we don't have an answer and its fun to speculate...

Raven  8)
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: The Fish on April 20, 2011, 10:33:02 PM
I think it was mentioned in white knight though that it was definetly madrigal who planted the car bomb
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: JinElusion on April 21, 2011, 02:06:34 AM
because we don't have an answer and its fun to speculate...

Raven  8)

Nope, the stars meant we had some kind of working theory on it. But anyway, no one seems to have an answer for me. Madrigal doesnt make real sense for me because it happens before Madrigal even comes on to the scene in proven guilty and Thomas mentions it at the end of that book as a loose end. I feel like if it was Madrigal it would have come up somewhere in that book
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Ms Duck on April 21, 2011, 02:41:35 AM
I put down a fairly serious theory a while back that it was mavra, based on the old sherlock holmes 'eliminate the impossible' idea.

it would not have been a wizard who could plant a car bomb, for example. :)

the other point on the idea was 'of the suspects, who could be a major threat in ghost story' and again, Mavra.

this is probably why it is starred.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Lash Dresden on April 21, 2011, 05:51:33 PM
Nope, the stars meant we had some kind of working theory on it. But anyway, no one seems to have an answer for me. Madrigal doesnt make real sense for me because it happens before Madrigal even comes on to the scene in proven guilty and Thomas mentions it at the end of that book as a loose end. I feel like if it was Madrigal it would have come up somewhere in that book
This could mean Thomas knows who did it but is somehow prohibited from telling Harry, so he tries to get Harry thinking about it so he can help him figure it out without breaking his word. He's played that game before.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: The Fish on April 21, 2011, 11:44:01 PM
Good point. he's played that game a few times, i think. he's good at it by now.

Also, mavra has possibly enough magical talent as a minor wizard, so the bomb would have gone off if she set it, as well. 'spose she could have had one of her cronies do it, though
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Landing on April 21, 2011, 11:46:11 PM
Good point. he's played that game a few times, i think. he's good at it by now.

Also, mavra has possibly enough magical talent as a minor wizard, so the bomb would have gone off if she set it, as well. 'spose she could have had one of her cronies do it, though

It is only mortal magic that messes with tech, vamps can do all the like with technology and cast magic all day.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: JinElusion on April 22, 2011, 02:19:00 AM
This could mean Thomas knows who did it but is somehow prohibited from telling Harry, so he tries to get Harry thinking about it so he can help him figure it out without breaking his word. He's played that game before.

You know, i really didnt think about it that way. Ahh paranoia
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: parthagenon on April 22, 2011, 05:10:18 AM
I don't really remember what the working theory on that one was.  Actually, this entire list has gotten really unwieldy- one of the things on my woefully long to-do list is to revamp this thread, which is going to take at least two days of work, if I put in all the cool organizational stuff I've been wanting to add.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Ms Duck on April 22, 2011, 11:36:40 PM
the working theory on the car and car bombs was Mavra

she knows explosives, and can use them- see BR

the car windshield was darkened

according to dracula, she can operate during the day, just without any of her magical powers

(hence the mundane attacks)

this was the general theory before CHanges, it is debated as to wether it's the same assasin or not
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: test on May 08, 2011, 01:28:37 PM
I've been re-reading Dead Beat and got to the scene where Kumori brings one of Marcone's people back to life, when i remembered the Ghost Story spoiler that the other side cheated.. i think resurrecting a killer so he can attempt to kill harry later would be considered cheating not to mention most of those attempts on harrys life where not made until after Dead Beat. The guys name is never mentioned but you never know could be him, his life/soul belonging to Cowl and Kumori now ? or maybe not   :-\
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Ziggelly on May 08, 2011, 10:29:17 PM
Oh, wow. Kumori never even crossed my mind. Good job for your first post, sir and/or ma'am. (http://www.ultimate-fighter.ca/Forum/extensions/pun_karma/icons/thumbs_up.gif)
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Arkham8 on May 09, 2011, 03:01:48 AM
Speaking of Kumori, I, and many others, have noted her absence from the events of White Knight, even though Cowl was present.

However, upon reflection maybe she was there the whole time *cough*
(click to show/hide)
*cough*
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: halfLotus on May 11, 2011, 02:02:14 AM
Hey y'all,

I've spent about two weeks scouring this forum for every lucid theory I could find (re: ignoring Ms. Duck ;-) jk) and I can't seem to find any good evidence for this: "-Why was Maggie Sr. going to Hell, and how did she escape?*"

Now I reread the entire series over the last 4 days so I admit it could just be escaping me, but I can't find any real evidence about this.

Cheers.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Landing on May 11, 2011, 02:25:25 AM
it comes from this quote from Fool moon
Quote
“Indeed,” Chauncy agreed. “Your mother was a most direct and willful woman. Her loss was a great sadness to all of us.”

I blinked, startled, and the pencil fell from my fingers. I stared at the demon for a moment. “You… you knew my mother? You knew Margaret Gwendolyn Dresden?”

Chauncy regarded me without expression or emotion. “Many in the underworld were… familiar with her, Harry Blackstone Dresden, though under a different name. Her coming was awaited with great anticipation, but the Dark Prince lost her, in the end.”
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Ms Duck on May 11, 2011, 04:14:08 AM
Speaking of Kumori, I, and many others, have noted her absence from the events of White Knight, even though Cowl was present.

However, upon reflection maybe she was there the whole time *cough*
(click to show/hide)
*cough*

thing is, cowl acted much differnetly than in his first appearance- to the point wher i wonder if he hates harry now because kumori didnt make it
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Arkham8 on May 11, 2011, 04:28:26 AM
thing is, cowl acted much differnetly than in his first appearance- to the point wher i wonder if he hates harry now because kumori didnt make it
I just figured he was kinda hacked off that his ascension ritual got messed up, plus a hefty bruise on the chin.

Cowl was also noted as "moving stiffly", so it could be that Harry permanently invalidated him.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Orbweaver on May 12, 2011, 02:57:15 AM
I just figured he was kinda hacked off that his ascension ritual got messed up, plus a hefty bruise on the chin.

Cowl was also noted as "moving stiffly", so it could be that Harry permanently invalidated him.

Or maybe Cowl's superiors didn't take well to the fact that Dresden managed to outmaneouver him. Cowl managed to survive several death curses before he attempted the Darkhallow, at least according to himself, so the backlash of energy wasn't outside his ability to handle. (That might depend on the potency of the death curse and the manner in which it was administered, but given that Harry has almost never managed to hurt Cowl in any significant way, it seems very likely that Dresden only indirectly managed to hurt him.)
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Ms Duck on May 12, 2011, 03:49:21 AM
I just see one of the running themes being empotional relationships between master and apprentice;

Justin -> Harry
Eb -> Harry
Annastasia -> Morgan
Eb -> Maggie
Harry -> Molly

so I would not be surprised if there is a Cowl -> Kumori angst there
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: ۞†Grey Warden†۞ on May 12, 2011, 04:22:23 AM
What about







Mab -> Ms. Duck
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Ms Duck on May 12, 2011, 04:26:27 AM
I wish

my love life would be a lot less boring...
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: kazimmoinuddin on May 29, 2011, 11:28:04 PM
THe thing is at the end of changes, he was exceptionally dangerous. HE had no home, no office, no possesions, and forced to give up his daughter. He belonged to the winter queen so forced to stay away from his life, so all he was left with was his power and his enemies he has nothing to loose in attacking.
Powered by:WInter knight mantle, soulfire, and a map of the ways. HE could travel the world quickly and easily, he had the power and might of winter, and the control of soulfire, nothing binding him but the winter Q direct orders, and the winter queen would love for dresden to go on a killing spree.
 MAvra know he has the knowledge of necromancy against the BCV, but he now has the power and control to take her and her kind down hard.
 NIcodemimus while sees harry as a potential assest has fear of him, he knows how to harm him, has defeated a shadow of a denarian while keeping his magic, and he wields soulfire.
 COwl or circle may have had enough of harry interfering.
 MArcone is not likly as so long as the circle and other bad guys was out there, dresden would not remove the man keeping them at bay.
KIncaid specificly told harry that this was the way to kill wizards, and his family have been long time enemies of ebenezor.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Anthony on May 30, 2011, 09:01:41 AM
One question that I have not seen is this: Is harry completely human?

We know Kincaid is not completely human and he said (to Harry) that he was : "just as human as he is".

At that time it was suggested that Kincaid was 100% Human (just as Harry). But if we look at it differently it would mean that they are both part non-human. If Kincaid was not lying, that would mean that Harry is part non-human. And if so, part what? Sidhe seems the best bet...
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: polkaneverdies on May 30, 2011, 01:41:47 PM
I read that as a pretty straightforward comment calling Dresden out for throwing stones from his glass front porch.
 He doesn't need to be a scion of something from the nevernever to be less than human.
A lifespan of a couple centuries and the ability to harness the forces of creation and destruction with your mind makes you pretty darn inhuman.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II Spoiler for changes
Post by: kazimmoinuddin on May 31, 2011, 04:47:18 AM
Did harry inherit anything from granddad, due to his use of the Black Staff? Could that be the non humanness of him, the dark harry. A semi regular coversation of himself is not normal.

I cant remember where, but i heard harry had to go back because three females or women he loved were in danger, in changes. So the top four women in harrys life:elaine, murphy, maggie, molly. why did harry not ask for elaine help.
Elaine is in danger if WC wardens find out who she is and her power.
Molly is in danger due to Doom of damocles and her father is no longer a knight.
Maggie is in trouble because of sheer genetics, dresdens always get the short end of the stick.
Murphy is in trouble due to fighting the supernatural and having no mojo to act as back up. also last to seen harry.

Harry shield should have stopped the bullet, i mean he heard Kincaid say the nest way to kill a wizard is sniper, and due to that mission had to build a better shield, so he would have made sure he was safe from the merc who scared him. For evil to cheat they had to make sure harry died, so did they make hisshield fail.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: polkaneverdies on May 31, 2011, 02:15:34 PM
His shield only works when he is actively using his will and magic to power it. The shield didn't fail, it just wasn't on.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: unfilthy on June 02, 2011, 09:05:04 PM
Why didn't Odin/Monoc Security, as signatories of the accords, step in on behalf of their client Marcone, instead of having Gard recruit the White Council through Harry?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II Spoiler for changes
Post by: Katarn on June 03, 2011, 02:54:11 PM
Did harry inherit anything from granddad, due to his use of the Black Staff? Could that be the non humanness of him, the dark harry. A semi regular coversation of himself is not normal.
I doubt it, but think of HWWB, DuMorne, Elaine's "death"- there are plenty of reasons to have issues for Harry  ;)

Quote
I cant remember where, but i heard harry had to go back because three females or women he loved were in danger, in changes.
Actually the opening chapter to Ghost Story says "three people he loves" (probably the platonic sense), and doesn't specify gender.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: The Fish on June 07, 2011, 11:47:08 PM
Why didn't Odin/Monoc Security, as signatories of the accords, step in on behalf of their client Marcone, instead of having Gard recruit the White Council through Harry?
I got the impression that odin was kinda trying to stay out of things because he was a god, something about a balance of power.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Arjan on June 08, 2011, 12:59:30 PM
It is one of the first laws of fantasy and role playing games:

That insanely powerfull being in the background will not even clean up his own mess let alone someone elses. You have to do that. Only helped by some obscure advise that makes sense after everything is over and maybe if you are very lucky he gives you a magic sword or something like that.

Odin can not help you more because that would be too easy. You can not prove your true heroism that way. On the bright side if you fail with enough drama you can party with him forever until the apocalypse/Ragnarok. You see it is a win win situation.

Oh there wil always be some talk about Balance, Fate, Free will and so on and that he already has given you all you needed (more help will lead to the too easy argument) but the real reason? probably he is busy. Preparing for the BAT.

Not so nice for all those heros who were just recently recruited. Only a few years to party before the real work starts.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Powderkegger on June 10, 2011, 01:16:31 AM
I'm surprised there's nothing about Thomas. For one thing, what is his involvement in The Oblivion War not to mention what exactly does the OW entail and how far does it reach? Personally, I wonder if his birthday might have a similar significance to Harry's. Maggie Sr sure knew how to hit a target.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: various on June 14, 2011, 06:41:55 PM
I have a couple of questions because I am not sure if they have been addressed,

1. I have two candidates to wield Amoracchius. The first would be Thomas if harry finds a way to control the demon inside of thomas like lea can, also the second and this may not be for several more years but little harry carpenter. 

2. Also I am curious if in grave peril anything that kravos did to little harry will have any lasting effect on him such as mental manipulation when he gets older or something else
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Lash Dresden on June 14, 2011, 07:41:46 PM
I have a couple of questions because I am not sure if they have been addressed,

1. I have two candidates to wield Amoracchius. The first would be Thomas if harry finds a way to control the demon inside of thomas like lea can, also the second and this may not be for several more years but little harry carpenter. 

2. Also I am curious if in grave peril anything that kravos did to little harry will have any lasting effect on him such as mental manipulation when he gets older or something else

We have WoJ that nobody is going to wield Amoracchius until the BAT.  I don't have an answer on 2, but I'm going guess not.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: various on June 14, 2011, 07:52:41 PM
So it is still possible for little harry to wield it because he is roughly I think 11  now and he would be considered a adult by the time for BAT, Sorry I just have a weird feeling that there is more to this kid since he was named after harry and that out of all of the carpenter children none have yet to show interest in taking up the good fight
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Lash Dresden on June 14, 2011, 08:08:43 PM
So it is still possible for little harry to wield it because he is roughly I think 11  now and he would be considered a adult by the time for BAT, Sorry I just have a weird feeling that there is more to this kid since he was named after harry and that out of all of the carpenter children none have yet to show interest in taking up the good fight
Define "the good fight."  The argument that Molly used to convince Charity that going with Harry to meet with the White Council was the right thing was, "you know there are bad things out there, and I can help fight them. I want to help."  To which Charity's response was something along the lines of, "of course you do, you're your father's daughter."  At which point she gave her blessing (not that she would have been able to stop the council from putting Molly on trial, but it made it better for Molly with the Council - as well as for their future mother/daughter relationship - that Charity allowed her to go voluntarily).
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: various on June 14, 2011, 09:34:45 PM
by good fight I meant basically taking on evil and helping people. My reason for suggesting harry is because he is a minor character who has been involved in a couple big events but other then those events we hear nothing from him and he is the only character to truly grow up during the course of the books (I don't count hope because she was born prior to storm front).  So I feel little harry will play a large roll in the future of the series
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Lash Dresden on June 14, 2011, 09:53:36 PM
by good fight I meant basically taking on evil and helping people. My reason for suggesting harry is because he is a minor character who has been involved in a couple big events but other then those events we hear nothing from him and he is the only character to truly grow up during the course of the books (I don't count hope because she was born prior to storm front).  So I feel little harry will play a large roll in the future of the series
Harry and Molly do that on a regular basis.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: various on June 14, 2011, 10:19:15 PM
Harry and Molly do that on a regular basis.

yes, but I am talking about little harry carpenter (molly's youngest brother) around the time of BAT I could see him taking up the mantle of a knight of the cross in his fathers place. If not I still see him having a big role later in the series.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Powderkegger on June 14, 2011, 10:31:42 PM
I think Harry C will still be a little young but Daniel is, what, sixteen? He'll be in his mid to late twenties by the BAT. He's definitely my pick for Amor. He tried to stand an fight the Fetches so his family could take shelter, takes care of all the younger kids, probably never misses Sunday mass, and his parents are Micheal and Charity Carpenter. Sounds like a future Fist of God to me.

I do think little Harry will have some relevance, however minor, somewhere in the series. Well, he already has. He was the bait for Nic's Lash-trap.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: The Fish on June 15, 2011, 06:26:26 PM
I find it interesting that little harry has aid maybe 3 words the entire time we've known him, and those were usually his name. All the other carpenter children have been a bit more social. We don't actually know much about harry yet. I think i agree that he has Things To Do. I dunno about amoracchius though
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Lubi on August 01, 2011, 01:10:28 AM
Hi, I'm new to this forum and maybe this question has come up before. (But I don't think so, I searched). Or maybe I'm just too dumb to see the obvious answer.
Anyway, at the end of Small Favor, chapter 46, there's this scene where Harry's in the hospital chapel and Mab comes up to speak with him. I think it is heavily indicated that Mab performs some more "brain surgery" (as with removing the memories of his fire magic earlier in the book) on Harry. I'm talking about the passage
Quote
I scowled at her. “You will not. I do not belong to y—”
The next thing I knew I was on my knees in the center aisle, and Mab was walking away from me, toward the door.
Clearly, here's a gap of at least some moments, because he was sitting in a seat before. Also, when Mab is gone, he reports to be bleeding from nose and ears, exactly like when Mab erased the memories of his blasting rod.
Quote
I realized a minute later that I had a nosebleed. A minute after that, I realized that there was a trickle of blood coming out of my ears, too.
So, the actual (unresolved) question is: What was the missing part of the conversation with Mab about, and why did she erase Harry's memories of it?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: The Fish on August 01, 2011, 06:40:23 PM
ooooooh, i completely missed that one.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: LogicMouseLives on August 03, 2011, 06:44:28 AM
Hi, I'm new to this forum and maybe this question has come up before. (But I don't think so, I searched). Or maybe I'm just too dumb to see the obvious answer.
Anyway, at the end of Small Favor, chapter 46, there's this scene where Harry's in the hospital chapel and Mab comes up to speak with him. I think it is heavily indicated that Mab performs some more "brain surgery" (as with removing the memories of his fire magic earlier in the book) on Harry. I'm talking about the passageClearly, here's a gap of at least some moments, because he was sitting in a seat before. Also, when Mab is gone, he reports to be bleeding from nose and ears, exactly like when Mab erased the memories of his blasting rod.So, the actual (unresolved) question is: What was the missing part of the conversation with Mab about, and why did she erase Harry's memories of it?

There was a good deal of speculation some time ago about the headaches Harry was having between the action of Small Favor and Turn Coat, and the fact that Little Chicago is not seen in Turn Coat (the one scene where the basement lab is described in detail only mentions "a long central table covered in a heavy tarp", which is similar to the description Harry uses for his blasting rod memories as he is in the process of regaining them in Small Favor.

Quite a few folks are of the opinion that Mab made Harry forget about Little Chicago so that he wouldn't be able to use it to find Thomas and would be forced to use Demonreach as he did. It's something of a stretch, but does kind of hang together.
Ghost Story Spoiler:
(click to show/hide)

And welcome to the boards, Lubi!

LML
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Lubi on August 03, 2011, 11:20:17 PM
Thanks, that actually makes a lot of sense. Although I can't quite figure out Mab's motives. But then I guess no one really can. We'll see.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: KurtinStGeorge on August 17, 2011, 10:24:02 PM
FOOL MOON

There is more going on than Rudolph being ashamed of Harry seeing Rudolph's cowardice in Fool Moon.  In GP Rudolph threatened to kill Harry if Harry couldn't help Murphy after she had been attacked by the Nightmare.  So it appears Rudolph cared about Murphy; he was still one of the good guys then, albeit an unbelieving, ineffective and cowardly good guy.  In Changes FBI agent Tilly calls Rudolph a dirty cop.  The Red Court Eebs send the Ick to kill Rudolph. 

I believe Rudolph is more than a dirty cop holding a grudge against Harry and Murphy because he is ashamed they have witnessed his cowardice, though that is part of his motivation.  He has been influenced by some dark powers; the RC obviously but possibly someone else as well, somewhere between GP and Changes.  It may not be a major plot point in DF universe, but I think Rudolph's story is a little larger and darker than many people suspect.   
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Ona on September 04, 2011, 10:32:35 PM
Believe it or not, I just read all 26 pages of this thread.  You guys are amazing!

I also looked for a version III because all kinds of issues from GS were not addressed, but couldn't find one.  So if there is one, someone please redirect me...

I noted a few things down as I went through the thread:

Quote
Maybe the demon in the Sight is his old employer Drakul, metaphorically holding Kincaid, much like viewing Harry with the Sight shows HWWB.

Do we know this - that viewing Harry with the sight reveals HWWB?  I'm doing a another re-read, so perhaps I'm missing something from the later books, but it seems to me Harry has always been really clear about not knowing, and not asking, what people see in him during a soul gaze.

Quote
So far, the general consensus has been that the Erlking is the most likely culprit for the hexenwulfen belts, but we're not sure.
Quote
Is it just me, or does this just seem like a really odd thing to happen?

It seems to me also that this doesn't ring true.  I just can't see the Erlking taking that kind of interest in FBI nobodies.  And I don't see anything in the text to support the theory - especially as the books go on.  At the end of Proven Guilty, Eb & Harry agree that something is behind all these things...  the hexenbelts being one of 'these things'.  I just can't see the Erlking fitting into the rest of it, and if he doesn't, he can't be the one to supply the hexenbelts. 

Quote
Was Rudolph being influenced by anyone other than the eebs/before the eebs?
I recently re-read GP in which he's explicitly and vocally supportive & protective of Murphy.

I also just re-read GP, and Rudolph, scared as he was, was clearly protective of Murphy.  He even, through his terror, threatened Dresden if anything happened to her.  He seems to have gone through a major character shift, and I can't see embarrassment being the entire cause of it.

So I agree with you here, totally.  It's an unexplained character shift.

Quote
which reminds me, there are some notions that Harry is meant for a mantle like the Warden (singular), which we don't know much about, or Blackstaff (for which I personally consider Harry to be supremely unsuited), but what about Harry as Gatekeeper?

When I first read that entry in McCoy's journals, that was exactly what I thought.  Later on in the series, there were a whole lot of other choices - but first impressions are important.  And that was definitely my first thought, the Gatekeeper's mantle.

As to why Mouse didn't bark at the fire...  I have to say I had the same idea as

Quote
Because then Jim would have had to come up with some other way to break Harry's back...
  ;D  I mean an author is just an author, he has to get things in their places one way or the other.  (Sorry, sorry, flees flying tomatoes).

Quote
It's gotta be an enchantment in some sense, because Harry believed he could have cured Susan by using the unravelling cloth.

This is what Harry thinks.  What he hopes to do with it.  It's entirely clear that Mother had other plans.  So I don't think Harry's fantasy solution here bears much weight.  We, the readers, knew, from the moment Mother gave that to him, that he would have to use it in the current situation.  And so he did.

Quote
Whoever Victor was working for, they knew about the heart-ripping curse used by the Red Court as well.

This is one that keeps coming up and keeps bothering me.  Yes, I know it's been mentioned that someone tells Harry the Red Vampires blood curse tears the heart out, but I don't remember seeing that happen at CI.  And Victor Sells was using simple thaurmatogy - super powered by the storm and the sex ritual - but there was a live rabbit with Harry's hair and a sharpened spoon.  Presumably, had he had time, he would have dug the rabbit's heart out with the spoon, and just like the Snoopy and the Loup-garou, it would have worked on Harry.  It just seems totally different than the blood line curse.  (To me, naturally, no offense meant).

Re the person who hit Harry's car from behind. 

Quote
Thomas mentions it at the end of that book as a loose end.

If you're talking about the end of Proven Guilty, it was Eb who mentioned it as a loose end.

As far as Kincaid saying Harry was as human as he was...  Personally, I'm fascinated by Kincaid.  And I'm quite sure that comment had meaning - and not just that being a Wizard is enough to differentiate himself from a vanilla human. 

Quote
I read that as a pretty straightforward comment calling Dresden out for throwing stones from his glass front porch.
 He doesn't need to be a scion of something from the nevernever to be less than human.
A lifespan of a couple centuries and the ability to harness the forces of creation and destruction with your mind makes you pretty darn inhuman.

Mortal practitioners.  Kincaid is a scion.  We know that now.  And that he made his choice a long time ago.  I really can't see him throwing out a comment like that in reference to something they both knew - that Dresden was a Wizard. 

Not to say I know what it means.  But I'm pretty sure it's important.

Anyway, after more than an hour reading this thread...  that enough from me. 

Again, you guys are just amazing!

Ona

Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Magnus on September 05, 2011, 04:16:20 AM
Believe it or not, I just read all 26 pages of this thread.  You guys are amazing!

I also looked for a version III because all kinds of issues from GS were not addressed, but couldn't find one.  So if there is one, someone please redirect me...

I noted a few things down as I went through the thread:

Do we know this - that viewing Harry with the sight reveals HWWB?  I'm doing a another re-read, so perhaps I'm missing something from the later books, but it seems to me Harry has always been really clear about not knowing, and not asking, what people see in him during a soul gaze.

He talks about HWWB having left a mark on him, after that junkie in Storm Front sees him on the policestation and mentions HWWB.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: polkaneverdies on September 05, 2011, 01:38:15 PM
The someone who tells harry about the nature of the curse is Odin. You don't remember seeing it at CI because harry blacks out for a couple of minutes immediately after killing susan. Its hard to remember what harry can't describe seeing since he himself forgets.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: professorpoole on September 06, 2011, 02:03:57 AM
Maybe someone else has mentioned this -- it's hard for me to believe otherwise -- but to me, the biggest and most critical mystery of all is: who was Ebenezer's wife? Ebenezer was Maggie (Sr)'s father ... so who was her mother?

Remember, Sir Jim is a very close-mouthed soul, so I've no doubt that this is going to be a rather interesting revelation. It seems like it'd be very important, especially considering that it is well-established that magical abilities more often follow the *female* bloodline, rather than the male.

(Mab?)

(Leah?)

(Someone else entirely?)

(heh.)
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: King_Luffy_91 on September 06, 2011, 12:10:02 PM
Maybe someone else has mentioned this -- it's hard for me to believe otherwise -- but to me, the biggest and most critical mystery of all is: who was Ebenezer's wife? Ebenezer was Maggie (Sr)'s father ... so who was her mother?

Remember, Sir Jim is a very close-mouthed soul, so I've no doubt that this is going to be a rather interesting revelation. It seems like it'd be very important, especially considering that it is well-established that magical abilities more often follow the *female* bloodline, rather than the male.

(Mab?)

(Leah?)

(Someone else entirely?)

(heh.)

Going with the end of Changes, I'd rule out Leah going with Eb's statement of it being a family meeting/discussion... pointedly meaning that Lea isn't in any way related to Harry except as Godmother...
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Sydna on September 06, 2011, 02:35:07 PM
Maybe someone else has mentioned this -- it's hard for me to believe otherwise -- but to me, the biggest and most critical mystery of all is: who was Ebenezer's wife? Ebenezer was Maggie (Sr)'s father ... so who was her mother?

Remember, Sir Jim is a very close-mouthed soul, so I've no doubt that this is going to be a rather interesting revelation. It seems like it'd be very important, especially considering that it is well-established that magical abilities more often follow the *female* bloodline, rather than the male.

(Mab?)

(Leah?)

(Someone else entirely?)

(heh.)

There is a WOJ which said she was mortal. So probably not interesting.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: OpticChaos on September 06, 2011, 03:06:59 PM
-Who cast the spell that stopped Harry from entering the screening room?

When/What is this question referring to?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: uncanny on September 10, 2011, 04:56:12 PM
As to why Mouse didn't bark at the fire...  I have to say I had the same idea as
I don't recall Mouse being there?  I thought he'd sent him with Molly.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Metekoranes on September 12, 2011, 07:36:40 PM
(ex-lurker here)

Been re-reading grave peril. How does Thomas learn that Harry is his brother? I know there is a WOJ ( http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,21772.msg947675.html#msg947675 (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,21772.msg947675.html#msg947675)) on this. But that doesn't seem to answer the question.

Unsolved mystery ?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Kacher on September 20, 2011, 12:45:09 PM
Hello, new to this community , Huge fan of the books.

We know that one of Mother winter powers is the unraveling

what is Mother summer powers ?

I assume in the line of creation ???

If i take a quote from Summer Knight
"An unmaking, boy. I am the unmaker, the destroyer. It is what I am. Bound within
those threads is the power to undo any enchantment done. Touch the cloth to that which
must be undone. Unravel the threads. It will be so."

Isn't it a description of the forces of hell ? their goal to destroy and bring chaos ?
or i misunderstand the purpose of hell? (in DV/F)

hmm, now that Harry is a Winter Knight and Mab take him to the court we will get lots of insight on the courts specially winter court in Cold Days, how the powers and balances is work there, what the mothers can do, and their sphere of control.

Plus i wonder what is Summer Capital and if they have something like the well Winter has but Summer thing.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Arkham8 on September 20, 2011, 03:41:48 PM
Welcome, Kacher. I'd say your first stop should be the WoJ compilation, by Serack. We don't know the exact capabilities of the Mothers, but we do have an idea of their power level relative to other entities.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: dantesparadise on September 21, 2011, 01:23:18 AM
Hello, new to this community , Huge fan of the books.

We know that one of Mother winter powers is the unraveling

what is Mother summer powers ?

I assume in the line of creation ???

If i take a quote from Summer Knight
"An unmaking, boy. I am the unmaker, the destroyer. It is what I am. Bound within
those threads is the power to undo any enchantment done. Touch the cloth to that which
must be undone. Unravel the threads. It will be so."

Isn't it a description of the forces of hell ? their goal to destroy and bring chaos ?
or i misunderstand the purpose of hell? (in DV/F)

hmm, now that Harry is a Winter Knight and Mab take him to the court we will get lots of insight on the courts specially winter court in Cold Days, how the powers and balances is work there, what the mothers can do, and their sphere of control.

Plus i wonder what is Summer Capital and if they have something like the well Winter has but Summer thing.

I think Mother Winter is just a  force of nature. Not passionate. Not calculating.  She just is.  She's Entropy.  Hell and its minions on the other hand do have a purpose, to be the antithesis of God.  They use chaos to unmake creation.  Mother Winter is chaos.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Kacher on September 21, 2011, 07:48:17 AM
I think Mother Winter is just a  force of nature. Not passionate. Not calculating.  She just is.  She's Entropy.  Hell and its minions on the other hand do have a purpose, to be the antithesis of God.  They use chaos to unmake creation.  Mother Winter is chaos.

Then why attempting to avoid the mess Aurora planned to do. 
Another thought, if Power is all that count for the Fea, why winter tried to stop Aurora plans, if she succeeded they would have got massive amounts of energy/power.

Aren't they all power hungry ?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Kacher on September 21, 2011, 08:20:31 AM
we saw in the series currently, 5 events that either were HUGE or had the potential to HUGE.

The first event i pick is in Death Mask the attempt to restart a world wide plague.
On this event we have a prophecy attached too.

The other 4 events are also massive.

1) Small Favor, direct involvement of the Prince of Darkness or Hell it self to turn Archive into Denarian.
Should there plan succeed a chance in the power balance, Lucio said that Ivy is equal in power to one of courts ladies, Dresden think she is underestimate it.
2) Dead Beat, an attempt to create a new demi god (Dark Hollow).
3) Changes, the death of all the Red Court, this is massive chance in world power and balance and it did come to pass not like the 2 others i mention.
4) the biggest potential of damage that could have happen in my opinion is in Summer Knight, Aurora trying to freaking totally unbalance the courts, first by giving Winter Summer Knight Energy and later trying to give them Summer Lady power.

why there weren't any Prophecies on the subject huge potential for destruction, specially the last one almost threw the world another and possibly forever Ice Age.

so to what extent Prophesies are tools in the DV ?

Something else.
when thinking further on Summer Knight events, it is clear something is still weird there, i will place try to place my thoughts in readable fashion then post.

P.S.
If this isn't the right thread, please move it,
Sorry for any English violation, English isn't my first language.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Cryslafax on September 21, 2011, 04:13:05 PM
Quote
Then why attempting to avoid the mess Aurora planned to do.
Another thought, if Power is all that count for the Fea, why winter tried to stop Aurora plans, if she succeeded they would have got massive amounts of energy/power.

Aren't they all power hungry ?

Mother Winter is a Fae.  Fae in Butcher's mythos seem to operate as elements of creation (by that I mean reality) itself.  They have a place in it.  Mother Winter doesn't want to destroy things.  At least, not before their ordained time to be destroyed.  Hell's forces seem to want to destroy things early.  They want to wreck God's plan, as it were.  Mother Winter is simply acting according to her plan (God's plan I suppose, since God created everything, but I digress).



Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: The Fish on September 23, 2011, 12:08:08 AM
Welcome, Kacher!
from the way i understand it, the Mothers are able to see the bigger picture and live in harmony. By giving Harry the unraveling, she made sure that balance was maintained in the mortal world and Fae.
As for your 4 events, none of them actually came through, except the Red Court falling, and while existed in potentia did not result in a large, evil power being made.
And there was a prophecy for Nicodemus' plague, but the KotC only heard half of it.
from what we've seen so far, it seems that prophecies are about much bigger things, as Lash hinted in white Knight.
but I, too, digress
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Kacher on September 23, 2011, 11:07:17 AM
Aurora almost brought Winter and Summer to the brink of war somethign that didn't happen in the last 1k years (Bob is 1k year old and he doesn't aware of it) we can assume base on info in Summer Knight that it might have happened when last ice age start or end, couple of millions of years.

Not to mention Aurora first tried to give Winter the power of Summer Knight and then Summer Lady attempting to ruin the balance totally (something that didn't happen before) and throw the world into for ever Ice age, extinguishing all life probably on Earth , might even end the Summer court and ruin the entire powers balance in DV.
One of the things that keep Titania or Mab in check is each other, no Mab or no Titania mean they will roam freely causing......

A coming of never ending Ice age seems to me pretty heavy :) then some plague heavy as it is
Remember plague can roam as long it is has prey when it eaten all its prey it die , so if it is hitting hard it will vanish even faster after everybody died :) and there will be always survivors at least not human.
read the theories of why Dinosaurs no longer roam the earth, it wasn't the meteor that killed them all or the blast from the impact it was the fact 1k years of total winter is what brought their end (assuming it was a meteor and not a result of Winter winning the war :) )

If DM prophecy didn't exists what would have happen  ?
The knights would still gather in Chicago they follow evil regardless if there is prophecy or not.
Dresden would have help them fully from the start, instead been kept out cause of half prophecy and then hunt the full one to find he is totally needed.

So something is off it appear in my opinion.

Another Question maybe we will get a new WoJ, did a war among the Fea courts brought the end to the Dinosaurs (due to 1k years of nuclear winter, dust cover the atmosphere causing no light and warmth reach the surface ? )

Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: co99p on September 24, 2011, 12:58:30 AM
"An unmaking, boy. I am the unmaker, the destroyer. It is what I am. Bound within
those threads is the power to undo any enchantment done. Touch the cloth to that which
must be undone. Unravel the threads. It will be so."

Destruction is not evil in itself - If winter didn't unmake the growth of summer there would be no room for new growth.   If your body can't "unmake" broccoli it can't then turn it into teeth and bones.     Or Chocolate - if your body couldn't destroy the chocolate you ate, then you wouldn't ever have room for more.  Only eating chocolate once?  Now That's evil


Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: TheCuriousFan on October 02, 2011, 10:45:04 AM
How old is the gatekeeper? to have killed the author of The Necronomicon he would have to be at least 1300 years old.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: uncanny on October 04, 2011, 09:06:58 AM
How old is the gatekeeper? to have killed the author of The Necronomicon he would have to be at least 1300 years old.
Or have the permission/access to jump time...
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Reventon on October 12, 2011, 12:41:02 AM
Just a couple of theories on the mantle Eb may have had in mind for Harry. Sorry if I hash up any old ground, there's still a lot of threads I haven't been able to read here and I only read about 1/2 - 2/3 of this one.:

The main one I've seen people bring up before is the Gatekeeper. This one makes a lot of sense. Something about the timing and circumstances of Harry's birth seems to make him ideal at whupping outsiders, and while we've never had any explanation of the Gatekeeper's title, one can assume that it's something along the lines of "Keeping the Outer Gates intact." Or perhaps even permitting them to open on occasion, given that the Council has a Blackstaff. I would assume that this is why the Desert Fox has cultivated relations within the faerie courts at least, if not having much further and expansive knowledge of the Nevernever, because he needs to know when big entities are stirring or when someone might decide to play fast and loose with the fabric of reality.

The other one is a replacement Blackstaff. Given that Eb has tremendous personal respect for Harry and also knows that Harry understands perfectly well how to deal with personal temptation and overcome it, this one makes some sense. On the one hand, Ebenezar would feel pained and guilty to have to give Harry such a burden... on the other, who else could he actually trust with that kind of power?

Third one that comes to mind is Captain of the Wardens. This one isn't as absurd as it might seem on the face. For a young Wizard, Harry has whomped and stomped more big nasty supernatural threats than basically everyone except the senior council members. The younger generation of wizards, who now compose the core of the warden's fighting force following the events of Dead Beat, all respect and admire him. The supernatural world fears him. He killed a faerie queen in the middle of a pitched battle, offed a vampire noble in her own house, summoned the Erlking and contained him on his own, whupped all of Kemmler's disciples, raided Arctis Tor with a mere handful of people, became the Winter Knight and he is now the big, bad mofo who murdered the whole damn Red Court. Also, given that few people truly know Eb was responsible for Casaverde, there must be at least a couple who suspect Harry. All that on top of the fact that he's a brilliant investigator, so as the head of the "magic police" as well as the White Council's army, he's uniquely suited to handling basically every responsibility the role entails.

In any case just being able to threaten an enemy that you're going to sic that Harry Dresden guy and his army on them would have most Old World baddies wetting their pants with fear (basically anything short of Ferrovax would get nervous IMO). A truly inspired council would make that move... and therein lies the rub.

The last one...please don't laugh. Well, try and restrict it, anyway. It struck me that maybe Ebenezar saw Harry as somebody capable of changing the Council entirely, of being the Merlin.

Chances of it happening? Very low, right now. Short of, you know, big bad scary apocalyptic events that change everyone's priorities. Such as might occur in a BAT. Amoracchius was entrusted to the original Merlin, Harry has functioned as custodian for two such swords. As mentioned, he's taken on all manner of threats in his young life, has a legendary reputation, a hefty level of power and magic arsenal...and don't forget that he's something of a direct successor to the original Merlin's teachings. The journal Ebenezar keeps that we see in Turn Coat is a long continuance of thoughts and knowledge going from master to student from the big M himself.

Besides which, on a political level, who actually has as many alliances as Harry? The White Court respect him, the Faerie Courts are all over him, The Church are best buds with him and unlike most wizards, he has a good number of mortal contacts - SI might not be as potent anymore, but they're still a whole department of the CPD, and I get the feeling Tilly's going to be pretty significant. Not to mention Marcone. That, and he's actually managed to politically outmaneuever Langtry (if only by the skin of his teeth) more than once now.  Oh yeah, and Uriel likes him too.

It's a longshot...but given events up until now, it seems way more likely than it did a few books back. Plus, really it's only what Ebenezar might want for him, not what will necessarily happen.

Have I gone crazy from sleep and caffeine deprivation or does this make some kind of sense?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: The Fish on October 13, 2011, 01:05:44 AM
Actually, I see him becoming this last more than the others, except maybe captain of the Wardens. (This does not say i don't see him becoming the others). It has been stated in WoJ's (Mighty Serack, correct me if i'm wrong) that the merlin is elected in a vote of the entire WC as the wizards most other wizards are willing to follow, not necesarily the most magically powerful wizard. I see this happening particularly if Harry has become the captain of the wardens (which would imply something happening to Luccio, just as i was really starting to like her) or something has happened to either kill off most of the anti-harry wizards or for him to gain their trust and respect.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: co99p on October 13, 2011, 03:36:24 AM
I don't see the White Council electing the new (Changes/GS spoiler)
(click to show/hide)
as Captian of the Wardens,
(click to show/hide)
?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Reventon on October 13, 2011, 09:16:35 PM
Awesome point. For something along those lines either Harry would have to be somehow relieved of his current duties (difficult to see how, without him getting ganked, though I suppose it's theoretically possible) or some seriously messed up events would need to occur in the Dresdenverse. Harry would probably the first person to call a world where he was Captain of the Wardens or anything more senior totally messed up.

That does still leave Gatekeeper somewhat open, seeing as, well... No one really knows much about that except that it's a title and it's mysterious and stuff.

It was also implied that whatever mantle Ebenezar had in mind for Harry, claiming Deamonreach as santum kind of nixed the idea pretty thoroughly. I'm very curious to learn the full significance of that.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: co99p on October 14, 2011, 04:15:15 AM
I may be misremembering the order of events, but I thought Harry read Eb's journal with the passage about him being a got fit for 'that mantle' After he invoked the sanctum with demonreach.  I have to go reread.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Reventon on October 17, 2011, 10:25:34 AM
Me too. Hey, any excuse to reread is a good one  :D
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Cyberchihuahua on October 20, 2011, 04:03:34 AM
Its kinda on the old side, but I don't remember it coming up before.

In PG Luccio's boot camp was attacked as a distraction for the RC. It was stated by Eb that only the Merlin, Listens to Winds, Ancient Mai and Morgan knew where the camp was. But this may have been during the time Peabody was warping Luccio's mind, so he could have gotten it from her.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: polkaneverdies on October 20, 2011, 02:49:34 PM
The other guess about the "mantle" was that he might become the "Warden". This is a reference to a woj that I will edit in when I track it down.

Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: biffstella on October 23, 2011, 03:23:16 AM
First time poster here
I keep wondering about the Fairy Kings.  If there are 2 queens, 2 ladies, 2 Mothers are there 2 kings, 2 lords and 2 Fathers?  And if the Queens have Summer and Winter Knights, do the Kings has female versions of these Knights?  Could Harry's father actually be the Winter King?  Would explain why Mab and Lea are so interested in him and how Maggie Sr. knew so much about the fairy world and it paths. Was Malcolm Dresden really a fairy king, hiding out or on some master plan for Harry's future destiny?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: OZ on October 23, 2011, 05:28:46 AM
I would have to look for the Word of Jim on this but IIRC he has said somewhere that Santa Claus is the Winter King and the Erlking is the Summer King. As far as I know he hasn't mentioned any other male fae positions. Even though they are mortal, perhaps the knights serve to balance the ladies and I don't think there is anyone that balances the Mothers. After all Summer and Winter are a part of nature and no one talks of Father Nature only Father Time.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Lothy on October 26, 2011, 05:01:55 PM
Summer Knight:
-Who compromised the defenses at Archangel?

I thought it was pretty much settled that that was Peabody?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: TruffleShufflen on October 29, 2011, 10:10:44 PM
Let's be honest here, Lash should come back in the next book to help Harry be the Winter Knight.

My question is, will Harry still slowly change into a Winter monster even though he laid the law down stating that he was going to do stuff his way?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: TruffleShufflen on October 29, 2011, 10:12:12 PM
Also, does him being the Winter Knight make him unable to be a Warden?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Elbryan629 on November 02, 2011, 03:22:02 AM
Let's be honest here, Lash should come back in the next book to help Harry be the Winter Knight.

My question is, will Harry still slowly change into a Winter monster even though he laid the law down stating that he was going to do stuff his way?

And a voice—a very calm, very gentle, very rational voice
whispered in my ear, “Lies. Mab cannot change who you
are.”
I struggled and twitched my fingers. “Five,” I muttered,
“Six. Seven. Heh.” I couldn’t help it. I laughed again. It hurt
like hell and it felt wonderful. “Heh. Heh.”
Mab had gone very still. She stared at me with wide
eyes, her alien face void of expression.
“No,” I said then, weakly. “No. Maybe I’m your knight. But
I’m not yours.”
Emerald fire flickered in her eyes, cold and angry.
“What?”
“You can’t make me your monster,” I slurred. “Doesn’t
work. And you know it.”
Mab’s eyes grew colder, more distant. “Oh?”
“You can make me do things,” I said. “You can mess with
my head. But all that makes me is a thug.” The effort of so
many words cost me. I had to take a moment to rest before
I continued. “You wanted a thug; you get that from
anywhere. Lloyd Slate was a thug. Plenty where he came
from.”
Demonreach’s burning eyes flickered, and a sense of
something like cold satisfaction came from the cloaked
giant.

-Ghost Story
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: TheCuriousFan on November 02, 2011, 03:49:24 AM
And a voice—a very calm, very gentle, very rational voice
whispered in my ear, “Lies. Mab cannot change who you
are.”
I struggled and twitched my fingers. “Five,” I muttered,
“Six. Seven. Heh.” I couldn’t help it. I laughed again. It hurt
like hell and it felt wonderful. “Heh. Heh.”
Mab had gone very still. She stared at me with wide
eyes, her alien face void of expression.
“No,” I said then, weakly. “No. Maybe I’m your knight. But
I’m not yours.”
Emerald fire flickered in her eyes, cold and angry.
“What?”
“You can’t make me your monster,” I slurred. “Doesn’t
work. And you know it.”
Mab’s eyes grew colder, more distant. “Oh?”
“You can make me do things,” I said. “You can mess with
my head. But all that makes me is a thug.” The effort of so
many words cost me. I had to take a moment to rest before
I continued. “You wanted a thug; you get that from
anywhere. Lloyd Slate was a thug. Plenty where he came
from.”
Demonreach’s burning eyes flickered, and a sense of
something like cold satisfaction came from the cloaked
giant.

-Ghost Story

I thought that was Uriel not Lash?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: ۞†Grey Warden†۞ on November 02, 2011, 07:53:17 PM
I thought that was Uriel not Lash?

It was........ Although maybe it was Uriel using Lash as a cats paw
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: TheCuriousFan on November 02, 2011, 08:16:08 PM
It was........ Although maybe it was Uriel using Lash as a cats paw

Why use Lash as a cats-paw when doing the whispering yourself gets the same result?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: ۞†Grey Warden†۞ on November 02, 2011, 10:08:59 PM
Why do anything...............................................Beca use it's more fitting that way.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: The Fish on November 03, 2011, 10:52:13 PM
so harry will recognize lash's voice, at least subconciously, and start to once again utilize a great asset?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: SmartAlec on November 03, 2011, 11:37:54 PM
Why use Lash as a cats-paw when doing the whispering yourself gets the same result?

Balancing things out as much as possible, perhaps. If the shadow that drove Harry to becoming Winter Knight was Lasciel, being used as an agent of Hell, then Lash being used as Uriel's makes a nice symmetry.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: KurtinStGeorge on November 04, 2011, 06:05:08 AM
This may not be a big mystery.  In Grave Peril when Harry meets Mavra at Bianca's masquerade ball, she tells Harry, "We should talk, I suspect we have much in common."  Harry says something like , "I doubt that."  Then he picks up on her aura and recognizes her as the being behind the nightmare.

So its likely that Mavra was just referring to the sorcerer Kravos; they both had him in common.  Its also possible that Mavra meant something else entirely.  Also, in Dead Beat Mavra was rather talkative with Harry; in almost a friendly way for soulless creature of darkness, until Harry told her to get to the point. 

I get the feeling there are some things about Mavra we haven't found out yet.  Others have suggested she (or it) is a BC member and that may be true.  I won't be surprised if we find out she had some connection to Margaret LeFey or Justin. 
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: TruffleShufflen on November 06, 2011, 03:57:00 AM
Balancing things out as much as possible, perhaps. If the shadow that drove Harry to becoming Winter Knight was Lasciel, being used as an agent of Hell, then Lash being used as Uriel's makes a nice symmetry.

Very good point. Lasciel was a true fallen angel. But Lash was different. Maybe Uriel had a helping hand in making Lash.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: TheCuriousFan on November 06, 2011, 05:22:58 AM
Very good point. Lasciel was a true fallen angel. But Lash was different. Maybe Uriel had a helping hand in making Lash.

Lash was the shadow of Lasciel that became it's own individual due to Harry's influence, how would Uriel have a hand in that? And isn't Uriel bound not to interfere unless Hell does?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Reventon on November 07, 2011, 08:46:36 PM
I would also assume that Uriel wouldn't be allowed to interfere because of his commitment to free will. Regardless of the circumstances, Harry chose to take up the coin and chose to fight it's influence on his own. He could have reached out to Forthill or done something else earlier on, so Lash's manifestation I'm his mind is basically his responsibility.

As far as using Lash as a cat's paw... Similarly I don't see what it actually achieves. Uriel had free reign to whisper the seven words, so why bother with a proxy?

You'd also have to wonder how happy he could be with the shadow of a Denarian in Harry's head. Even subverted to fight for Harry's better interests, it's still composed of a big chunk of one of the Fallen. I really don't see Uriel becoming chummy with such an entity barring absolute necessity. 
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: TruffleShufflen on November 08, 2011, 12:44:59 AM
Well, the thing that is shown is that anyone who takes up a coin, with enough will, can contort it into something good. Something that has feeling. Something that would give its "life" for you.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: KurtinStGeorge on November 09, 2011, 10:50:49 PM
Well, the thing that is shown is that anyone who takes up a coin, with enough will, can contort it into something good. Something that has feeling. Something that would give its "life" for you.

It might depend on which coin was picked up.  Remember Lasciel is the called the seducer and web weaver, among other things.  Harry speculated she was a "rebel angel among rebel angels."  She is being which uses subtlety and manipulation to ensnare her hosts.  Her shadow is like the original except she was as mutable as Harry.  In other words she could be subtly influenced (manipulated) by her host.

Now take a being like Ursiel.  He's all about brute strength and inflicting damage.  He's the kind of Denarian who would rather overpower his host than co-opt the poor bastard.  So while in theory it might be possible for someone with enough will to control the shadow of Ursiel, that person would not only have to be incredibly strong willed, they would probably have to know in advance of picking up the coin that they would face a devastating psychic attack at the moment they touched the coin. 

I think there would be other problems when that individual got into dangerously violent situations.  In these types of situations, Lash tried to get Harry to see that calling forth Lasciel was the reasonable thing to do.  Ursiel's shadow would use its hosts fear, rage and adrenaline to help it push the host into calling for the true Ursiel. 

Lasciel's shadow was the right being to tempt and manipulate Harry, but Harry was the right host to change Lasciel's shadow into Lash, to contemplate her own identity and make her own decisions.  It would probably take a whole new bag of tricks to handle a different member of the fallen.     
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: KurtinStGeorge on November 09, 2011, 11:05:48 PM
(If this question is in another thread please point me there.)

In Blood Rites, why was Mavra's crew in place at Arturo Genosa's when Harry and Thomas drove up to the outer guard shack?  Its clear Mavra decided to draw Harry into attacking her so she could later blackmail him to get the word of Kemmler for her.

How could she have possibly have known Harry would show up there? 
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: MX on November 10, 2011, 04:28:47 AM
(If this question is in another thread please point me there.)

In Blood Rites, why was Mavra's crew in place at Arturo Genosa's when Harry and Thomas drove up to the outer guard shack?  Its clear Mavra decided to draw Harry into attacking her so she could later blackmail him to get the word of Kemmler for her.

How could she have possibly have known Harry would show up there?

My personal theory is that she and the White King, as part of the Black Council, were working together.  Both Mavra being there with vamps at the guard shack as well as Madge, an ex-wife whom purposefully avoids making contact with Harry, indicate Papa Raith knew someone might interfere and that it might be Harry.  Blood Rites was the White King's attempt to break free from Maggie's death curse.

Just as we had seen Cowl and Kumori at Bianca's ceremony, it was also implied if not outright stated that Mavra was Bianca's teacher in the magical arts.  We find out later that Maggie Sr. was with the White King and wanted Eb's help with some plan and that Duchess Arianna was there as well.

This strongly implies that the White King was BC and that Arianna was as well.  If we tie in Mavra to the scheme, we have a link between these factions.  Mavra, I think, was there in part to gather new henchmen but also to prevent any interference to the White King's plans to bring Genosa 'back into the fold'.  Someone like Harry would be such an interference.

Since she 'failed' and the White King fell in that book, it also keeps in line with Harry's later musings that the Black Council plays all nice with each other until it is time to stick the knife in one of their fellow council members' backs.

Net results of Blood Rites for the bad guys:  Mavra gets blackmail material she later uses to get the word as well as deposing a fellow Council member.  Black Council removes a member that may have been to locked into out-moded thought processes.  Oh, and I think they gain a new Council member: Lara.

Whom better to join a group of self-serving, backstabbing, work-behind-the-scenes-to-destroy-everyone-else club than Lara Raith?  After all, she now has access to all of Papa Raith's knowledge.  I don't think Lara is one to just sit on information, such as it were.
Title: Ghost Story
Post by: smoggy on November 12, 2011, 05:54:24 AM
In Ghost Story, there is a reference fto Father Forthill's worn King James Bible.
The KJV isn't normally used in Catholic circles, there are 2 branches of the tree in the translations from early manuscripts.  The KJV is on one branch, and the normally used Catholic Bible - the Douay-Rheims - is on the other branch.

MY question I guess - i why would a Catholic Priest be using the King James Version?
If he tried to preach from it, he'd have the whole Congregation up in arms right up to and including the bishop.

I love the stories.
I'm also a bible college student.

Comments?

Title: Re: Ghost Story
Post by: mdodd on November 12, 2011, 04:24:54 PM
In Ghost Story, there is a reference fto Father Forthill's worn King James Bible.
The KJV isn't normally used in Catholic circles, there are 2 branches of the tree in the translations from early manuscripts.  The KJV is on one branch, and the normally used Catholic Bible - the Douay-Rheims - is on the other branch.

MY question I guess - i why would a Catholic Priest be using the King James Version?
If he tried to preach from it, he'd have the whole Congregation up in arms right up to and including the bishop.

I love the stories.
I'm also a bible college student.

Comments?
Welcome to the forum. The issue of the bibles was discussed at great length in one of the other threads and I don't think any agreement was made. Possibly it was discussed in the Ghost Story spoilers section.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: OZ on November 12, 2011, 11:37:18 PM
The speculation ranged from Father Forthill is enough of a scholar to familiarize himself with other translations especially the most popular to Father Forthill is a spy for the Black Council to Jim made an error. As stated above there was no consensus reached.

Quote
Well, the thing that is shown is that anyone who takes up a coin, with enough will, can contort it into something good.

I think that you are confusing the actual coin with the shadow that is left behind when someone picks up a coin then attempts to put it away and not touch it again. It took a very strong willed, experienced and sometimes just plain lucky Harry that seems to have a nack or outright ability to change things by naming them to change the shadow of Lasciel to the seeming ally Lash. Every indication is that this would be impossible if you were dealing with the actual fallen rather than their mere shadow.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: TruffleShufflen on November 15, 2011, 01:49:53 PM
What I really want to know is who's behind it all? In an earlier book it is thought that there is a "master" of all the planning. Making everything happen. Think of how much of a coincidence it is for all of these evil badies coming out and trying to start stuff.

Who is behind it all?

And what are they planning next?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: KurtinStGeorge on November 15, 2011, 09:00:28 PM
Who is behind it all?

And what are they planning next?

I have a feeling the Black Council is a very loose confederation.  Sort of like the heirs of Kemmler; in that they seek a common goal, but that doesn't mean they like each other and won't stab each other in the back any chance they get. 

I doesn't appear that every major bad guy we have seen is part of the BC.  So there might be more than one party pulling strings.  There could be some not so nice characters who have their own agenda and would oppose the BC for their own reasons.  Harry might be forced to make alliances of convenience to fight the BC.  For example, there has been some speculation in a couple of threads that at some time in the future Harry might be forced to work with a hated enemy like Nicodemus, against a more immediate threat from a BC member.

That would be fun to see, though I doubt a Harry/Nic partnership; even a temporary one, will ever occur. 
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: knnn on November 16, 2011, 01:21:48 PM
(If this question is in another thread please point me there.)

In Blood Rites, why was Mavra's crew in place at Arturo Genosa's when Harry and Thomas drove up to the outer guard shack?  Its clear Mavra decided to draw Harry into attacking her so she could later blackmail him to get the word of Kemmler for her.

How could she have possibly have known Harry would show up there?

We know that Mavra is really good at veils -- one suggestion is that she is following Harry around all throughout BR.  In this particular case she gets her minions to "attack" Harry in order to protect him from Lara.  Remember that right before the Blampire attack, Lara was about to shoot Harry dead and ask questions later.  The attack (and the Blampires making their intentions to kill/take everyone) caused Harry and Lara to make the temporary truce.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Reventon on November 18, 2011, 11:13:23 AM

Harry might be forced to work with a hated enemy like Nicodemus, against a more immediate threat from a BC member.

That would be fun to see, though I doubt a Harry/Nic partnership; even a temporary one, will ever occur.

Not for more than the span of a single battle, but I think it's totally happening. My money is on Ferrovax as the foe, side bet on Tessa with a loopy enough plot.

Interesting thought - are all of Tessa's nickelhead faction black council, or just Thorned Namshiel? Realistically, her and Rosanna are the only ones who matter now as the rest were mostly hired muscle who got ganked by Harry, Thomas and Kincaid, but still, 3 Denarian bc members are scarier than one. Also begs the question, are any of Nic's flunkies bc? He'd tear them a new one if he knew, of course, but Lasciel's dissenting nature shows us such things are possible.

Given that a number of coins are back "on the market" it could be interesting to see.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: TheCuriousFan on November 18, 2011, 11:33:30 AM
Quote
Not for more than the span of a single battle, but I think it's totally happening. My money is on Ferrovax as the foe, side bet on Tessa with a loopy enough plot.

We have WoJ Ferrovax isn't getting involved until 1 book before the BAT.

Quote
Interesting thought - are all of Tessa's nickelhead faction black council, or just Thorned Namshiel?

Most likely all of them, and a few other Denarians too, simply because it makes things more difficult for Harry.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Arjan on December 10, 2011, 06:11:34 PM
My personal theory is that she and the White King, as part of the Black Council, were working together.  Both Mavra being there with vamps at the guard shack as well as Madge, an ex-wife whom purposefully avoids making contact with Harry, indicate Papa Raith knew someone might interfere and that it might be Harry.  Blood Rites was the White King's attempt to break free from Maggie's death curse.

Then why hit Lara and Inari? She was pretty pleased to hit the white court. She may know who triggered the Stoker thing.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: veritybrown on December 15, 2011, 02:55:31 AM
As far as Kincaid saying Harry was as human as he was...  Personally, I'm fascinated by Kincaid.  And I'm quite sure that comment had meaning - and not just that being a Wizard is enough to differentiate himself from a vanilla human.

...

Kincaid is a scion.  We know that now.  And that he made his choice a long time ago.  I really can't see him throwing out a comment like that in reference to something they both knew - that Dresden was a Wizard. 

Not to say I know what it means.  But I'm pretty sure it's important.

I instantly glommed onto Kincaid's comment when I read it, because I've suspected since very early on in the series that it would turn out that Malcolm Dresden was NOT actually Harry's birthfather. We know that Maggie, Sr. was a mortal wizard, so she's not the supernatural parent who would make Harry "just as human" as Kincaid. The logical conclusion, then, is that Harry's birthfather was supernatural.

I developed a theory about this last night after finishing Changes: Odin (or one of his own supernatural--not scion/crossbreed--offspring) is Harry's birthfather. It would certainly explain why Odin showed up for the battle at CI--his own life was on the line. It also explains why the Red King was determined to see the ritual through--if you take out Odin, you create a huge power vacuum. In fact, considering that one of Odin's traditional designations is "Allfather," it's possible that a bloodline curse involving Odin would make the extensiveness of what happened to the Red Court look inches-to-miles by comparison.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: TheCuriousFan on December 15, 2011, 03:32:33 AM
Quote
so she's not the supernatural parent who would make Harry "just as human" as Kincaid.

Wasn't Kincaid also insisting that he was a vanilla human in that scene?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Arjan on December 15, 2011, 11:04:31 PM
Wasn't Kincaid also insisting that he was a vanilla human in that scene?
He was just protecting his secrets and telling nothing without lying.  You can interpret his words in several ways and that is exactly what he wants.

Lying to a wizard is not wise because he may have ways to check the truth of statements like Lucio did in dead beat. Not only Sidhe talk that way it is just smart to avoid lies when talking to supernaturals.

Kincaid may not consider a powerful wizard as really/completely human or he may consider himself human. He has a human parent and can breed with humans so biologically he is a human. What is and what is not human in the dresdenverse is not allways clear and open to multiple interpretations. He did not say he was a vanilla mortal. Harry isn't a vanilla human either.

Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Arjan on December 17, 2011, 08:04:51 AM
He also just had some fun with Harry. He likes teasing Harry and he has a certain sense of humor.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: TheCuriousFan on December 17, 2011, 12:32:28 PM
Quote
He did not say he was a vanilla mortal.

From Blood Rites, pages 94-95:

Quote
"Just plain folk?"

"Yeah"

"Not supernatural?"

"I wish, Vanilla mortal."

"You're a liar."

"Excuse me?"

"I said you're a liar. I saw you during the fight at Wrigley, Kincaid. You fired a dozen shots, on the move and dodging bad guys the whole time."

"What's so supernatural about that?"

"In a fight, just plain folks miss sometimes. Maybe most times. You didn't miss once."

"What's the point of shooting if you're just going to miss? I'm as human as you are, Dresden. I'll see you later." 

You were saying?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Arjan on December 17, 2011, 05:16:14 PM
From Blood Rites, pages 94-95:

You were saying?
Thanks for the quote. I should have done so.

He is clearly not under a fairy like truth compulsion. Reading this it feels like a very human reaction. It is like asking Ramirez about his sex life.

Some questions are very personal. Asking a half human entity what he is is like asking him how he regards himself.  He may have wrestled with the question in the past. He may even be lying to himself. And anyway it is none of your bussiness and you should just not ask a question like that.

Don't ask. Don't tell. And if you do ask you can expect a lie.

In a normal human sense it may not even be a lie. If they both know it is not true and know the other knows (and so on) it stops being a lie and is just a way of telling the other not to ask questions.

Of course Harry ignores this.

In reaction Kinkaid does not even try to be convincing. He just makes fun of Harry.

Compare with how Harry in small favor reacted when Sonya wanted to know what Gard was. 

Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: TruffleShufflen on January 24, 2012, 05:33:10 PM
Kincaid is porbably a faerie. That is why he was put in charge of Ivy. Ivy wouldn't be protected by a normal human.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Arjan on January 24, 2012, 06:22:36 PM
Kincaid is porbably a faerie. That is why he was put in charge of Ivy. Ivy wouldn't be protected by a normal human.
We know that Kincaid is a scion. The son of some nevernever being and a human. He is not a changeling. No faerie. We do not know what that nevernever being was and it might be interesting. 
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Vairelome on January 25, 2012, 02:07:58 AM
We know that Kincaid is a scion. The son of some nevernever being and a human. He is not a changeling. No faerie. We do not know what that nevernever being was and it might be interesting. 

Technically, he could be some fusion of a nevernever being and a human, not just the son of two parents, one human and one non-human.  Uriel used the same terminology to refer to Thomas, after all--WCVs are a fusion of a mortal and an emotional Phage demon.  I think that it's more likely you are correct, though.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: TheCuriousFan on January 25, 2012, 02:23:42 AM
Who says that one of his parents was a being from the Nevernever?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: cass on January 25, 2012, 03:31:19 AM
Who says that one of his parents was a being from the Nevernever?

If the 'he' you're talking about is Kincaid, it's at the very least implied by Ebenezar in BR, and, in my reading, it's pretty explicitly stated that Kincaid is one of the beings that is part-human, part-something else.

Here's the quote:
Quote
"There are people walking around who carry the blood of the Nevernever in them," Ebenezar said. "...The faeries aren't the only ones who can breed with humanity, though, and the scions of such unions can have a lot of power. Their offspring are usually malformed. Freakish. Often insane. But sometimes the child looks human."

"Like Kincaid."

Ebenezar nodded.

It's interesting to note that whatever else Kincaid may be, Harry notices earlier in the book that he's human enough for a soul gaze-- which is interesting.  Anybody remember if pre-Choice changelings are soul gaze-able?

Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: PadawanWizard on February 03, 2012, 04:19:44 PM
This is a really great thread!  I really like reading everyone's theries.  The few I will ship are:
Eliane = Kamori
Injun Joe = Cowl (we know that some people we think are good will be bad and this is jst to good to pass up)
I have seen it tossed up that Lara is now part of the BC, I will totally disagree with this one just based on her position in the Oblivian War, the BC goals are to agianst what she would be fighting for.  Also I don't think the Ferifax(sp?) is part of the BC, all the gifts at the party where from the BC and had some kind of negitive conitations to them for the recipiants, I think he is to poweful of a being to want to play with them so they wanted to try and negate him for the future.

I think Molly bearing one of the swords is a good posibility based on Harry's Soul gaze of her.  We know Luccio can't make warden swords anymore so what sword did she have?

And to wrap this up for now the last couple of posts, Harry is a Wizard, not  vanilla mortal his dad was just a normal human being who was able to Love Harry's mother no matter what he knew about her and that's what saved her from Hell.

Cheers all and keep up the great work!
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: PearlJam on February 03, 2012, 04:37:08 PM
I think the most irritating ones for me are the fate of Fidelacchius and Amorrachius. I thought for sure that after the changes/Ghost Story section Murphy would end up with Fidelacchius at least, and I still haven't given up on that possiblilty. Also, I think that the "other side" mentioned was probably demons and/or hell. As for how they cheated, Ghost Story makes it pretty clear. They whispered lies into Harry's ear to influence him in the wrong direction, and in doing so they broke the rules of guiding and interacting with the flow of people's lives.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: PearlJam on February 03, 2012, 04:43:19 PM
Specific Characters, Places, and Objects

Harry and Lash (I'm treating Lash as a separate entity from Lasciel)
-What to people see when they soulgaze Harry?
-Who calmed Harry down outside Victor’s house?
-Who hit Harry’s car?*
-Who cast the spell that stopped Harry from entering the screening room?
-What are the special circumstances of Harry’s birth and their ramifications?
-Is Lash really dead?
-Why did Uriel give Harry soulfire?
-Why did Harry find Demonreach familiar, and what role will it play in his future?
-What is the mantle Ebenezer is considering for Harry?*
-Who killed Harry/had Harry killed?
-What will be Harry’s new relationship with Mab?
-Why is Odin helping Harry?
-Whose female voice does Harry hear at the end?
-What is causing Harry’s headaches?
-Why did Mouse choose Harry?

Molly
-Why is Winter (Lea) so interested in Molly?
-Why did Mab bring Molly into Arctis Tor?
-Who set Molly up at Splattercon!!!?
-Is Molly going to go warlock?
-What will happen to Molly now that Harry is presumed dead?

Maggie Sr. and Malcolm Dresden
-What relationship did Lea have with Maggie Sr?
-How did Malcolm Dresden die?
-Who/What was Malcolm Dresden?*
-What does Martha Liberty know about Maggie Sr.?
-Why was Maggie Sr. with Lord Raith?
-With what did Ebenezer trust Maggie Sr.?
-Why was Maggie Sr. going to Hell, and how did she escape?*
-How was Maggie Sr. connected to the Outsiders?
-How was Maggie Sr. connected to Nicodemus?

Mab and Winter
-Why is Winter so interested in Molly?
-Why does Mab want Harry as her Knight?
-Why did Mab bring Molly into Arctis Tor?
-What happened in the attack on Arctis Tor?
-How did Mab cure Lea of the Athame’s influence?
-Has the Athame affected Mab?
-How was Mab wounded?
-What was Mab’s goal in interfering?
-What will be Harry’s new relationship with Mab?
-How did Bob get on Mab’s bad side?*

Lea and the Athame
-What relationship did Lea have with Maggie Sr.?
-What is the Athame, and why did Bianca give it to Lea?
-Why did Lea burn Thomas when she kissed him?
-What exactly did the Athame do to Lea?
-What deal with Lea make with Odin?
-How did Odin and Lea manipulate the events of Changes?
-Who held the athame before Bianca?

Demonreach
-Where does Demonreach correspond to in the Nevernever?
-Why did Harry find Demonreach familiar, and what role will it play in his future?
-What was the shack on Demonreach, who built it, and how/why did it repel Shagnasty?
-How was/is the (singular) Warden associated with Demonreach?
-How is the Gatekeeper associated with Demonreach?

Titania and Aurora
-What caused Aurora to go mad?
-What is the relationship between Titania, Lily, and Fix?
-Why did Titania send the Gruffs after Harry?

The Gatekeeper
-Why is the Gatekeeper helping Harry?
-What exactly is the Gatekeeper’s job?
-How does the Gatekeeper’s prescience work, and how powerful is it?
-How is the Gatekeeper associated with Demonreach?

Marcone and Persephone
-What is Marcone’s real name?
-Why is Vadderung helping Marcone?
-What is going to happen to Persephone?
-How much influence does Marcone now have in the supernatural world?

Odin
-Why is Odin helping Marcone?
-Why is Odin helping Hary?
-How did Odin and Lea manipulate the events of Changes?

Ebenezer and the Blackstaff
-What was Kincaid’s previous experience with Ebenezer?
-What is the mantle Ebenezer is considering for Harry?*
-How/from whom did the White Council get the Blackstaff?

Cowl and Kumori
-Who are Cowl and Kumori?
-What were Cowl and Kumori doing at Bianca’s party?
-How did Cowl know about Bob?
-How is Cowl associated with the Red Court?
-Was Cowl the one to summon the Outsiders in Dead Beat?
-How did Cowl survive the failed Darkhallow?
-Why is Cowl working with the White Court dissenters?
-Why does Cowl have command of the super-ghouls?

Others
-Who/What is Mac?
-Why was Ferrovax at Bianca’s party, and what did he receive?
-Who are the Jade Court Vampires, and what are they doing?
-Who is Drakul, and is he involved?
-How is Lord Raith protected from magic, and does it have to do with his red earring?
-Who/What is Kincaid, and what does Harry's Sight vision of him signify?
-How did Mavra get the pictures of Murphy?
-What were the Merlin’s three plans to wipe out the Red court?
-How powerful/what exactly is Mouse, and why did he choose Harry?
-Why did Mavra want The Word of Kemmler?
-Is Corpsetaker still alive?*
-Who was/were Lasciel's previous host(s), and were they significant?
-What is the relationship between the Swords and royal blood?*
-Why did Nicodemus have Lasciel's coin, when Lasciel does not traditionally work with Anduriel?
-Who did Morgan lose in the attack on Archangel?

These two are not so mysterious. First, Mouse is a Foo-Dog, a crossbreed of an Ice Demon and a regular dog. As for why he chose Harry it is more speculation, but is probably that when he met Harry he probably felt a kindred spirit and a power of some sort that made him like Harry.

Second, Nicodemus tells Harry straightforward that he had Lasciel's coin because he felt like she was a good fit for Harry, and since he was expecting to find a way to make Harry pick it up he had it with him for when the opportunity arose.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: fish321 on February 12, 2012, 04:31:16 AM
We know that Kincaid is a scion. The son of some nevernever being and a human. He is not a changeling. No faerie. We do not know what that nevernever being was and it might be interesting.

I don't believe ive ever posted on this site before but i do lurk on it all the time and feel its time to throw a crazy, off the cuff, no facts to back it up whatsoever theory out there. Granted i have no where near the talent of ms. Ducks who seems to come up with new genius theories all the time but Ill enjoy making up an answer to this anyway. Kincaid is going to end up being the son of the erlking and....dresdens grandmother. She was captured by Erl during a hunt and held captive. She bore him a son before Eb rescued her but by then the child had already been taken away. Later Eb meets Kincaid, realizes who he is, and gives him a chance to prove himself without telling him that he knows his mother. Later kincaid kills his mother for leaving him (doesnt Eb tell Harry something like you dont know what he has done?) And Eb has hated him ever since.

Why the Erlking you ask? No reason, just seemed more interesting than saying random scary nevernever creature. Ive got nothing to back this up but it is a storyline i would enjoy so i shared.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: fish321 on February 12, 2012, 05:35:13 AM
You know id like to take a stab at the " Why are Jack and Carmichael in chicagotory?" Question. Could it be related to the fact that they were both killed while fighting the supernatural, both cops, and so both recruited by Uriel to join a group involved with supernatural related deaths? I seem to recall reading somewhere that Jack didnt really suicide, he was head of the black cats and maybe some mojo was involved with his death so Uriel snags him as a logical agent.

Carmichael died as the result of supernatural interference, he was on si and he died trying to save murphy so again Uriel should have interest in him and even Jack would probably want him around.

Lots of cops probably get killed as a result of running into something supernatural and that could create a pool of possible recruits for Uriel. Take it a step further and maybe some "sin" on their souls would have sent them to hell despite the fact that they were trying to "fight the good fight" and by doing this Uriel is giving them a chance to move on up instead of down.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: TheCuriousFan on February 12, 2012, 05:47:07 AM
I don't believe ive ever posted on this site before but i do lurk on it all the time and feel its time to throw a crazy, off the cuff, no facts to back it up whatsoever theory out there. Granted i have no where near the talent of ms. Ducks who seems to come up with new genius theories all the time but Ill enjoy making up an answer to this anyway. Kincaid is going to end up being the son of the erlking and....dresdens grandmother. She was captured by Erl during a hunt and held captive. She bore him a son before Eb rescued her but by then the child had already been taken away. Later Eb meets Kincaid, realizes who he is, and gives him a chance to prove himself without telling him that he knows his mother. Later kincaid kills his mother for leaving him (doesnt Eb tell Harry something like you dont know what he has done?) And Eb has hated him ever since.

Why the Erlking you ask? No reason, just seemed more interesting than saying random scary nevernever creature. Ive got nothing to back this up but it is a storyline i would enjoy so i shared.

He's a Scion, not a changeling.

And we know that Kincaid is centuries older than Ebenezar.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: fish321 on February 12, 2012, 05:55:04 AM
How dare you use known facts to punch holes in my whimsical theory. Eh well back to the drawing board
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Oirthir on March 20, 2012, 05:55:23 PM
so if Kincaid is a Scion, doesn't that make Harry a Scion as well?

"What's the point of shooting if you're just going to miss?" He smiled, made a mime-gun of his thumb and index finger, and aimed at me. His thumb fell forward and he said, "I'm as human as you are, Dresden. I'll see you later." (Blood Rites)
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: TheCuriousFan on March 20, 2012, 06:09:36 PM
so if Kincaid is a Scion, doesn't that make Harry a Scion as well?

"What's the point of shooting if you're just going to miss?" He smiled, made a mime-gun of his thumb and index finger, and aimed at me. His thumb fell forward and he said, "I'm as human as you are, Dresden. I'll see you later." (Blood Rites)

Oh hell no.

Quote
"Just plain folk?"

"Yeah"

"Not supernatural?"

"I wish, Vanilla mortal."

"You're a liar."

"Excuse me?"

"I said you're a liar. I saw you during the fight at Wrigley, Kincaid. You fired a dozen shots, on the move and dodging bad guys the whole time."

"What's so supernatural about that?"

"In a fight, just plain folks miss sometimes. Maybe most times. You didn't miss once."

"What's the point of shooting if you're just going to miss? I'm as human as you are, Dresden. I'll see you later." 

Kincaid was insisting that he was a vanilla mortal for the entire scene, he was effectively saying "you're human and I'm human as well" when he said that.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Oirthir on March 20, 2012, 09:13:09 PM
Oh hell no.

Kincaid was insisting that he was a vanilla mortal for the entire scene, he was effectively saying "you're human and I'm human as well" when he said that.

I know it's probably soft, any theory based on any fact other than a WOJ or the word given in text from a being who is known to be unable to lie is subject to colouration as it is seen and heard through the eyes and ears of one Harry Dresden.  Conversations held with other characters may similarly contain  obfuscation and misdirection if not outright lies.

I take it that we read that passage entirely differently:

Quote
“... You're a liar”
“Excuse me?”
“I said you're a liar. I saw you fight at Wrigley, Kincaid. You fired a dozen shots, on the move and dodging bad guys the whole time."

This I took to mean that everything before Harry called Kincaid a liar to be false, Kincaid does not deny the lie, he redirects.  When he says he's just as human as Dresden is, I take this to be the only true statement he makes in the conversation, if for no other reason than that is the way I'd do it for dramatic flair – it makes for good storytelling (plus, Kincaid is a prick, I could see him saying something like this just to say “I told you so” later).  If I’m right about Kincaid's statements in Blood Rights, then: if Kincaid is a scion (which defines him as not fully human) Harry must in turn have something unnatural in his bloodline.  Unless I have evidence either of Harry's family tree or a WOJ saying I'm wrong, then 2 of four possible cases for this argument are equal.

1.) Harry and Kincaid are both not fully Human  {x}
2.) Harry is fully human and Kincaid is not        {x}
3.) Both Harry and Kincaid are fully human
4.) Harry is not fully human, but Kincaid is
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Arjan on March 20, 2012, 09:44:40 PM
I think we are reading too much in this. We know what Kincaid and Harry are and wether you think they are human is just a matter of definition. Neither is vanilla mortal.

Kincaid is just telling Harry to stop questioning and mind his own bussiness. Harry as the social sensitive person he is totally ignores that. Kincaid uses the opportunity to have some fun. He actually has a sense of humor.

Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Second Aristh on March 21, 2012, 07:21:43 PM
He's a Scion, not a changeling.

And we know that Kincaid is centuries older than Ebenezar.
I thought a changeling was a specific type of scion.  Is my interpretation of a scion incorrect?

Supernatural creature + mortal = scion
Faerie + mortal = changeling
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: asetti on March 21, 2012, 09:23:54 PM
"Why did Lea burn Thomas when she kissed him?"

Hmmmm...Think her madness was love?  White Court Vampires are burned by people who are protected by Love (who had sex with both parties being in love).  Wouldn't a Fae being in love be against their very nature?  Wonder if it was Harry's Father!

Could that be what incurred the debt for Lea she traded Maggie's (sr) love for protection for her son and husband at her death?  Part of that was love for Harry (mother to child) and harry's father.  That would explain why Lea sees harry as her child (godchild).
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: TheCuriousFan on March 21, 2012, 11:44:20 PM
I thought a changeling was a specific type of scion.  Is my interpretation of a scion incorrect?

Supernatural creature + mortal = scion
Faerie + mortal = changeling

They're similar but not the same, Scions generally are either deformed or insane with a few ending up human-like IIRC, Changelings appear to consistently (or at least, no mentions of most of them dying young).
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: DragonEyes on March 22, 2012, 12:08:34 AM
"Why did Lea burn Thomas when she kissed him?"

Hmmmm...Think her madness was love?  White Court Vampires are burned by people who are protected by Love (who had sex with both parties being in love).  Wouldn't a Fae being in love be against their very nature?  Wonder if it was Harry's Father!

Could that be what incurred the debt for Lea she traded Maggie's (sr) love for protection for her son and husband at her death?  Part of that was love for Harry (mother to child) and harry's father.  That would explain why Lea sees harry as her child (godchild).

Lea's nature is to fall in love with creative mortals, feed their passion for their art so they are driven to perform better and more beautifully, maybe drink a little of their blood, and let them die an early death. It's possible that that love she feels for them and the love they feel for her is pure and true, even if it is something of a devils bargain.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: polkaneverdies on April 05, 2012, 08:49:03 PM
All changelings are scions
Not all scions are changelings.

Eb certainly implied that he came from something a bit more exotic than a simple fairy.

I believe that is why the correction was made.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: knnn on April 09, 2012, 02:51:07 AM
I had this wonderful theory where Kincaid and Drakul were brothers, and the only difference was that Drakul had made his Choice, while Kincaid was still trying to hold on to his human half (hence his fussyness when being challenged about his humanity).  Also, it would make for an amazing scene when Kincaid finally makes his choice, and Harry suddenly has a world-cracking, Drakul-power-level ally at his side.   "behold as I unleash the HELLHOUND"  8)

Unfortunately, this was shot down in a WoJ where he states that Kincaid already made his choice centuries ago.   :'(


(....Is thinking about writing alternate-timeline fan-fiction where this theory is true).
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: asetti on April 12, 2012, 10:51:48 PM
I know it's probably soft, any theory based on any fact other than a WOJ or the word given in text from a being who is known to be unable to lie is subject to colouration as it is seen and heard through the eyes and ears of one Harry Dresden.  Conversations held with other characters may similarly contain  obfuscation and misdirection if not outright lies.

I take it that we read that passage entirely differently:

This I took to mean that everything before Harry called Kincaid a liar to be false, Kincaid does not deny the lie, he redirects.  When he says he's just as human as Dresden is, I take this to be the only true statement he makes in the conversation, if for no other reason than that is the way I'd do it for dramatic flair – it makes for good storytelling (plus, Kincaid is a prick, I could see him saying something like this just to say “I told you so” later).  If I’m right about Kincaid's statements in Blood Rights, then: if Kincaid is a scion (which defines him as not fully human) Harry must in turn have something unnatural in his bloodline.  Unless I have evidence either of Harry's family tree or a WOJ saying I'm wrong, then 2 of four possible cases for this argument are equal.

1.) Harry and Kincaid are both not fully Human  {x}
2.) Harry is fully human and Kincaid is not        {x}
3.) Both Harry and Kincaid are fully human
4.) Harry is not fully human, but Kincaid is

hmmmm Do we know that wizards are "fully human"?  Don't the vamps consider them aberations?  Maybe Harry is not "fully human" since he is a wizard.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Oirthir on April 13, 2012, 07:49:13 PM
Council calls vanilla humans mortals too
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Arjan on April 14, 2012, 01:39:51 PM
Well biologically speaking.....

Anyone who can breed with humans and get fertile offspring is a human ;D
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: DragonEyes on April 14, 2012, 03:12:07 PM
Well biologically speaking.....

Anyone who can breed with humans and get fertile offspring is a human ;D

So the Fae are human, as are the White Court Vamps and the Grendel scion that Harry and Gard killed?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Arjan on April 15, 2012, 08:45:28 AM
So the Fae are human, as are the White Court Vamps and the Grendel scion that Harry and Gard killed?
Until somebody comes with another definition of what makes someone human in the dresdenverse the Shide can very well be seen as a subspecies of human.

The white council must have some sort of definition otherwise the first law is useless but I did not see it. And their definition is more a practical one. Not really a logical one. For their law it has some value. For other purposes not.

Kinckaid for example might have chosen a long time ago and he certainly can not seriously claim to be a vanilla mortal but he might see himself as human. And depending on your definition he is or he is not

Species is not really applicable in supernatural biology in the dresdenverse so we need a new definition.
 
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: DragonEyes on April 15, 2012, 12:28:39 PM
That's true enough, though I'm sure each of these groups do have their own criteria for membership and the Wizards probably have tomes and tomes of writings on what constitutes humanity for First Law purposes.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: romuloht on April 15, 2012, 07:06:31 PM
What proof do we have that Harry's father was human? Ebenazar says he is mortal but we don't really know if he ever met Malcom. Yes, in Blood Rites he says something about Malcom having a good heart, and that would mean that he met him, but if he knew about Harry and Malcom wouldn't he have adopted Harry after Malcom died? Instead of leaving him alone to later be adopted by someone like Justin. And we can't really trust Harry's memories about his father, he was 6 years old when his father died, his memories have to be fuzzy, or they could have been tampered with. Another thing that bugs me is the knowledge that Malcom implies to have in Dead Beat about the things that were happening and what would still happen. I also found it strange that he could contact Harry in his dreams, no spirit (or is it ghost?) has this ability in the DV (as far as I know). There's also the fact that Harry could see him in the end of Dead Beat, if he can't see spirits without using his Sight, how could he see Malcom?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Veggie Lamb on April 29, 2012, 11:29:46 PM
What proof do we have that Harry's father was human? Ebenazar says he is mortal but we don't really know if he ever met Malcom. Yes, in Blood Rites he says something about Malcom having a good heart, and that would mean that he met him, but if he knew about Harry and Malcom wouldn't he have adopted Harry after Malcom died? Instead of leaving him alone to later be adopted by someone like Justin. And we can't really trust Harry's memories about his father, he was 6 years old when his father died, his memories have to be fuzzy, or they could have been tampered with. Another thing that bugs me is the knowledge that Malcom implies to have in Dead Beat about the things that were happening and what would still happen. I also found it strange that he could contact Harry in his dreams, no spirit (or is it ghost?) has this ability in the DV (as far as I know). There's also the fact that Harry could see him in the end of Dead Beat, if he can't see spirits without using his Sight, how could he see Malcom?

Yes, I've been considering that someone may have fiddled with Harry's mind long before the start of everything. For I awhile I suspected Merlin would end up Harry's father ( hence all the tension there), but I'm considering the possibility that Harry might have been Maggie's special project created with a purpose. Harry isn't just an insignificant wizard. He isn't even a normal significant wizard. Harry is something special.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: TheCuriousFan on April 30, 2012, 01:12:14 AM
Harry isn't just an insignificant wizard. He isn't even a normal significant wizard. Harry is something special.

Wasn't that kinda stated when Lash pointed out that he has "power over Outsiders"?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II- Mac
Post by: GremlinsToolbox on June 01, 2012, 02:03:59 PM
At the beginning of 'Changes' Harry goes to Mac's and, weirdly, Butcher describes Mac as having thick wrists. So, all you pulp fiction lovers may realize that Mac is probably a Master of Sinanju!
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: parthagenon on June 21, 2012, 05:23:41 AM
Okay, this thread is waaay overdue for some updating.  I apologize for the neglect in updating the OP- if I have time in the next couple of weeks, an Unsolved Mysteries 2.1 may soon happen.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: aShorty21 on June 21, 2012, 06:59:05 PM
Please do. I want to comment on some things, but 32 pages is too much to get caught up on. I'll wait till the OP is up to date.

And thanks for keeping this.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on July 07, 2012, 04:26:02 PM
Until somebody comes with another definition of what makes someone human in the dresdenverse the Shide can very well be seen as a subspecies of human.

having a soul, and, seemingly ensuingly, having free will ? faerie have neither.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Arjan on July 10, 2012, 07:43:57 PM
having a soul, and, seemingly ensuingly, having free will ? faerie have neither.
If you think that is the significant difference. But both are still vague concepts we do not really understand. And rather difficult to use in a diagnostic test. Even with magic. The people who lost them do not think it important

And a lot of people never bother thinking about these two things.  Watch out for Kincaid if you try to exclude him from humanity because of that :)

Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: AcornArmy on July 10, 2012, 08:04:25 PM
In Grave Peril at the graveyard scene, and at the beginning of Summer Knight when Harry met Mab, it was hammered home that Fae can't really work their magic on you unless they already have a handle on you.
I thought that was that they couldn't kill you unless they already had a handle on you. They are allowed to mess in other ways though.
Or am I wrong?
I thought it was just the Queens not all fae

This is a problem, because we've been given some conflicting information in the books, or at least information that doesn't seem to fit together properly. Still waiting for a WoJ to clarify. In Ask JimTM form, I guess the question would be:

Would you(Jim) please clarify exactly who the Faerie Queens can personally kill and who they can't? At various times in Summer Knight and in the rest of the series, we've been told or seen evidence that:

-- The Sidhe Knights are the only ones allowed to act in matters not directly related to the Faerie Courts. (SK, Ch. 10)
-- The Queens are not allowed to kill anyone who isn't a member of their own Court. (SK, Ch. 10)

And yet:

-- We've seen fae servants of the Faerie Queens kill and attempt to kill mortals many times.
-- Aurora was able to try to kill Harry just fine, but was unable to harm Murphy. (SK, Ch. 20-21)
-- When Harry is preparing to deal with Mab to become the Winter Knight, he thinks to himself that Mab can't kill a mortal, only make them wish they were dead. The implication seems to include the Winter Knight. (Changes, Ch. 30)

So which mortals can the Faerie Queens kill? Bob tells us one thing, but evidence in the books indicates something else.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: AcornArmy on July 10, 2012, 08:11:03 PM
I've noticed something in Dead Beat that wa interesting. When Cowl lifts his arms to touch the Darkhollow, his arms are described as "long, weathered arms covered in old scars." NOW, the only person I can recall having this "weathered" descriptions is Injun Joe. Infact, many times that Injun Joe is introduced in the story this word appears. Theory, Injun Joe being a healer finds an injured Elaine, heals her, then recruits her. Joe is very interested in aspects of life and death that could tie into a benevolent form of Necromancy. Does this theory hold water?

It does not, I'm sorry to say. Listens-to-Wind showed up at Harry's house that very night to help heal the Wardens, and there was no mention at all of him looking the slightest bit battered or bruised. According to all sources in DB, having the Darkhallow explode in your face would be a somewhat damaging experience, and in White Night, Cowl-- if it was actually Cowl-- still moved in such a way that it conveyed that he was in pain, which seemed to confirm the idea that Cowl had been badly injured by the Darkhallow crashing.

Of course, Cowl could've been injured by something else, and he might have been just fine after the Darkhallow ended, allowing him to go heal people at Harry's apartment as Injun Joe. But that doesn't seem like the safest bet.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: AcornArmy on July 10, 2012, 08:18:57 PM
Okay, I've added two questions:

-How was Maggie Sr. connected to the Outsiders?
-How do the Laws of Magic work?

Does anybody have any suggestions on how to make the second question less vague?  It was the best I could come up with, given the amount of discussion in the Laws of Magic thread.

I have posted a possible answer to the first question here!: Maggie LeFay and the Outsiders (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,28692.0.html)

'Course, I made that thread almost a year ago, so it'll be going away soon. Maybe I should re-post it or something, since nothing has changed to alter the theory since then.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Second Aristh on July 10, 2012, 09:25:25 PM
I have posted a possible answer to the first question here!: Maggie LeFay and the Outsiders (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,28692.0.html)

'Course, I made that thread almost a year ago, so it'll be going away soon. Maybe I should re-post it or something, since nothing has changed to alter the theory since then.
If you add in some WoJ quotes and text references, you might be able to get this theory into the display case of theories that is being developed.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Mr. Death on July 10, 2012, 09:31:52 PM
-- The Queens are not allowed to kill anyone who isn't a member of their own Court. (SK, Ch. 10)
As I understand it, they're not able to kill anyone who's not involved in Faerie business.

Quote
-- We've seen fae servants of the Faerie Queens kill and attempt to kill mortals many times.
It's only a physical restriction for the queens--for the rest of the Faeries, it's at best a guideline.
Quote
-- Aurora was able to try to kill Harry just fine, but was unable to harm Murphy. (SK, Ch. 20-21)
See above: Harry was directly involved in Faerie business as Mab's emissary.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: AcornArmy on July 10, 2012, 11:11:51 PM
As I understand it, they're not able to kill anyone who's not involved in Faerie business.
It's only a physical restriction for the queens--for the rest of the Faeries, it's at best a guideline.See above: Harry was directly involved in Faerie business as Mab's emissary.

Yeah, but these are just guesses. The fact is, we've gotten information that doesn't fit together very well. There have been a lot of guesses made about how things are supposed to work-- I've made a few myself-- but this question is meant to get an official response from Jim someday, in the hope of clearing up the issue for good.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Zohak on July 11, 2012, 08:57:46 AM
Unless their is clauses that the Fae can act in the best interests.
Or like a mutual defense packet one nation[ the fae, angels, white court,ect] can act in the defense of all it just depends  who ever is the first to scene for offensive action.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: AcornArmy on July 12, 2012, 03:27:02 AM
It would stand to reason that any magical ward (even one with a Hellfire bonus!) would fall under said category and that a Warden could destroy one without harming themselves (unless it was containing something nasty ;)). Otherwise, the swords are completely useless.

There's bound to be a limit to the amount of power an enchanted Warden's sword has available to it. Whatever that limit is, it seems almost certain to be much less than the Hellfire-infused lines of fire that made up those two pentagrams. In which case, if Luccio had stabbed it with her sword, it probably would've gone the way of the Denarian who fell into them at the aquarium; that is, poof into instant metallic vapor. Luccio would've pulled back a much shorter sword.

Or maybe Cowl's superiors didn't take well to the fact that Dresden managed to outmaneouver him.

As a leader of the Black Council, if someone in your group is about to become a brand new god, do you nominate yourself for the role, or do you hand it off to one of your lackeys, and just pray they continue to follow orders after they've joined the Mount Olympus Mile-High Club?

Myself, I doubt very much that Cowl has any superiors in the hierarchy of The Circle/Black Council. He may be one among many top people, though, ranked equally with several others in the group.

He talks about HWWB having left a mark on him, after that junkie in Storm Front sees him on the policestation and mentions HWWB.

We know there's a mark; we don't know that it looks like HWWB. For one thing, Harry himself had no idea what the thing's name was when he met it, so how would Random Junkie Guy immediately know its name just from seeing an image of it? For that matter, how would he immediately be able to attach the term "wizard" to what he was seeing about Harry?

Thinking about it, I'm having doubts that Junkie Guy was getting all of his information from the Three-Eye drug. Unless it gave some additional, prophetic powers beyond just insight into the nature of what was seen. Or unless the guy had been taking so much of the drug that his mind was no longer tethered properly to his own time and body.

It was also implied that whatever mantle Ebenezar had in mind for Harry, claiming Deamonreach as santum kind of nixed the idea pretty thoroughly. I'm very curious to learn the full significance of that.

The quote from the book is:

Quote from: Turn Coat, Ch. 47
Rashid says that warning him about the island would be pointless. He’s a good judge of people, but I’m not so sure he’s right this time. The boy’s got a solid head on his shoulders, generally. And of all the wizards I know, he’s among the three or four I’d be willing to see take up that particular mantle. I trust his judgment.

That sounds to me like something on the island is the mantle Ebenezar is talking about. It's a job involving Demonreach, one that has the Merlin ready to shite kine, but which Eb thinks that Harry might be ready for. Or that's how it seems to me, anyway.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: AcornArmy on July 12, 2012, 03:29:30 AM
so if Kincaid is a Scion, doesn't that make Harry a Scion as well?

"What's the point of shooting if you're just going to miss?" He smiled, made a mime-gun of his thumb and index finger, and aimed at me. His thumb fell forward and he said, "I'm as human as you are, Dresden. I'll see you later." (Blood Rites)

Possible evidence in favor of this idea in the Harry's Possessiveness (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,28688.0.html) thread.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: AcornArmy on July 12, 2012, 03:43:08 AM
"Why did Lea burn Thomas when she kissed him?"

I originally suggested this theory a long time ago, but I can't see that it's been negated by anything since then, so I'll repeat it: the idea is that Lea's bargain with Susan gave her access, not only to Susan's memories of Harry, but to Susan's feelings toward him. Including, somehow, the true love protection that Susan had from Harry. Lea never actually removed any of Susan's memories, remember; she just covered them up, while simultaneously giving herself access to them.

My guess is that Lea created some sort of link between herself and Susan through those memories of Harry, and that with those feelings came some of the love that Susan felt for him, and that Harry felt for her. Because of this, as long as the connection was in place, Lea had access to Susan's true love protection. She decided to play around with it by kissing Thomas on the cheek and showing off the fact that it burned him.

The whole idea is pretty vague, because we've never been told anything about a spell like that, but it fits with Lea's pleased and amused demeanor at the time, as well as the timeline of the events.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: asetti on July 16, 2012, 05:40:11 PM
There is also a theory that Lea loved either Maggie Sr or Harry's Father and is protected from the white court (ahla justine).
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: WiseMan999 on July 17, 2012, 01:00:29 AM
There is also a theory that Lea loved either Maggie Sr or Harry's Father and is protected from the white court (ahla justine).
Wouldn't the protection have run out after about 40 years? I thought it had to be renewed?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Mr. Death on July 17, 2012, 03:02:16 AM
Nope. Only if she's broken it, somehow, like by schtupping someone else.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: WiseMan999 on July 17, 2012, 11:12:24 AM
Nope. Only if she's broken it, somehow, like by schtupping someone else.
Didn't she do that with Harry earlier in the series? Or was it just an incredibly suggestive scene but no actual sex? My memory's fuzzy.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: TheCuriousFan on July 17, 2012, 01:30:01 PM
Didn't she do that with Harry earlier in the series? Or was it just an incredibly suggestive scene but no actual sex? My memory's fuzzy.

She most likely did it with Harry when he was 16 yes.
Title: Re: Ghost Story
Post by: robertltux on July 18, 2012, 05:31:21 PM
In Ghost Story, there is a reference fto Father Forthill's worn King James Bible.
The KJV isn't normally used in Catholic circles, there are 2 branches of the tree in the translations from early manuscripts.  The KJV is on one branch, and the normally used Catholic Bible - the Douay-Rheims - is on the other branch.



don't forget that an educated preacher will reference the ORIGINAL TEXT for a buncha things (the version on the pulpit will be the "Official text") also don't forget that there is a lot of cross-training with both religions (Micheal hums a decidedly Protestant hymn at one point).
Title: Re: Ghost Story
Post by: knnn on July 18, 2012, 05:39:16 PM
In Ghost Story, there is a reference fto Father Forthill's worn King James Bible.
The KJV isn't normally used in Catholic circles, there are 2 branches of the tree in the translations from early manuscripts.  The KJV is on one branch, and the normally used Catholic Bible - the Douay-Rheims - is on the other branch.

MY question I guess - i why would a Catholic Priest be using the King James Version?
If he tried to preach from it, he'd have the whole Congregation up in arms right up to and including the bishop.

I love the stories.
I'm also a bible college student.

Comments?

Some of us regard this as evidence that Forthill is also a secret Venator.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: wyltok on July 18, 2012, 06:04:53 PM
This topic (http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,28560.0.html) discusses the King James' Bible in Forthill's room. It includes knnn's Venator theory.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Lash Dresden on July 18, 2012, 07:23:50 PM
RE: The enchantment on the wardens' swords that allows them to slice through magic - does it only work on mortal magic, or any and all magic?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: aShorty21 on August 01, 2012, 03:05:06 PM
RE: The enchantment on the wardens' swords that allows them to slice through magic - does it only work on mortal magic, or any and all magic?

I think it works on more than just mortal magic. I am assuming this based on how Carlos' sword goes through the arm guards of Grey Cloak or Madrigal (I forget who had the arm guards). This is also under the assumption that the arm guards were not of mortal make.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Anthony on November 06, 2012, 10:13:08 PM
What proof do we have that Harry's father was human? Ebenazar says he is mortal but we don't really know if he ever met Malcom. Yes, in Blood Rites he says something about Malcom having a good heart,

The there is the option that Malcolm was Harry's father (as in raised him) but not his biological dad. Maybe Harry's mom was already pregnant and Malcolm was so in love with Maggie that he accepted the child as his (after all, he has a good heart). It would give another spin to the story and we would have to find out who the father was and what...
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Sydna on November 07, 2012, 06:31:08 AM
The there is the option that Malcolm was Harry's father (as in raised him) but not his biological dad. Maybe Harry's mom was already pregnant and Malcolm was so in love with Maggie that he accepted the child as his (after all, he has a good heart). It would give another spin to the story and we would have to find out who the father was and what...

Rubbish
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Ziggelly on November 07, 2012, 02:36:36 PM
 :o That didn't sound very polite, Sydna. I guess it was more... completely unproductive. If that had been my theory, I would want somebody to put a little more thought into a debate, rather than just dismiss it as "rubbish." Rubbish just sounds kind of mean, and probably makes Anthony not want to post his theories as freely. And we're not "that" kind of forum. We should be welcoming to new members; not shooting them down.
And it's a perfectly valid theory, imho. It may be a little cliché, true, but Jim lives for clichés. So please explain to us: what's your issue with it?
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Lash Dresden on November 07, 2012, 03:08:08 PM
The there is the option that Malcolm was Harry's father (as in raised him) but not his biological dad. Maybe Harry's mom was already pregnant and Malcolm was so in love with Maggie that he accepted the child as his (after all, he has a good heart). It would give another spin to the story and we would have to find out who the father was and what...

Actually, I think there's a WoJ somewhere that Malcolm is Harry's father.  But maybe I'm mis-remembering. 
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Ziggelly on November 07, 2012, 03:11:49 PM
But, still. If Sydna had known, she should've come out and said that. "Rubbish" just.. isn't nice. You know? Maybe it's just me.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Lash Dresden on November 07, 2012, 08:30:14 PM
But, still. If Sydna had known, she should've come out and said that. "Rubbish" just.. isn't nice. You know? Maybe it's just me.
Sorry - I should have quoted the post I was responding to.  My response was to Anthony, not Sydna.  I've posted too much weirdness around here myself to ever call someone else's theory "rubbish" - besides which, as you said, it's not nice.

ETA:  Fixed it now. :)
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Anthony on November 07, 2012, 09:35:43 PM
But, still. If Sydna had known, she should've come out and said that. "Rubbish" just.. isn't nice. You know? Maybe it's just me.

Thanks, for the reply/support. But it takes more to dissuade me from replying   ;)

But, the more I think about it the more I think it makes sense. Jim Butcher likes to have us look in one direction and ignore another option. While we are thinking about his mother we forget the father (only now are we starting to discuss it: was he mortal). Same with Elaine; everybody I spoke with though she must be Black counsel/circle. Just for that, Jim Butcher will make her a good guy/neutral person...

But feel free to think of my ideas as rubbish  ;D
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: JinElusion on November 07, 2012, 09:38:53 PM
Elaine just gives me a weird feeling. So does Ebenezer actually. Maybe it's just me wanting them to be his allies so badly that my sinister side keeps warning me to be prepared for a sucker punch
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: tuttman1234 on November 10, 2012, 04:40:36 PM
Elaine just gives me a weird feeling. So does Ebenezer actually. Maybe it's just me wanting them to be his allies so badly that my sinister side keeps warning me to be prepared for a sucker punch

With Eb, my mind keeps coming back to that dinner he mentioned in Changes. I think he knows a lot more about the BC than he's telling. And that doesn't make me feel all happy and stuff.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Haugen01 on December 01, 2012, 03:01:31 AM
Hello:

Can someone let me know what happened to Mouse after Harry Died?

Thanks
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Ziggelly on December 01, 2012, 03:07:44 AM
O.o...
Mouse is living at the Carpenters. Protecting Maggie.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: ۞†Grey Warden†۞ on December 01, 2012, 04:34:25 AM
Like a boss.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Lash Dresden on December 01, 2012, 04:42:51 AM
And once in a while he
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Mr. Death on December 03, 2012, 07:25:19 PM
Hello:

Can someone let me know what happened to Mouse after Harry Died?

Thanks
It's not really an Unsolved Mystery if you find out what happened in a book that came out over a year ago.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: yaddayadda on December 08, 2012, 11:25:23 AM
Mouse went with Molly & Thomas in the helicopter from Chitzen (however-you-spell-it) at end of Changes. In Ghost Story, Harry (w/ Archangel Uriel) visits Maggie at the Carpenters' house & Mouse is there. Uriel tells Mouse to stay with Maggie & tells Harry that Mouse will potentially live as long as Maggie - even if she has a longer Wizard lifespan. (Several Archangels have similiar U---- names. It's the one Harry talked to in Ghost Story. Uriel?)
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: MonkeyToe on July 30, 2013, 09:44:42 PM
Is this thread still being managed? There ia at least one question I feel should be added to the list and one that needs to come of it.
Title: Re: Unsolved Mysteries Version II
Post by: Cyberchihuahua on July 30, 2013, 11:42:33 PM
Mouse went with Molly & Thomas in the helicopter from Chitzen (however-you-spell-it) at end of Changes. In Ghost Story, Harry (w/ Archangel Uriel) visits Maggie at the Carpenters' house & Mouse is there. Uriel tells Mouse to stay with Maggie & tells Harry that Mouse will potentially live as long as Maggie - even if she has a longer Wizard lifespan. (Several Archangels have similiar U---- names. It's the one Harry talked to in Ghost Story. Uriel?)

Its spelled Chicken Pizza.