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Messages - Mira

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1
DF Spoilers / Re: Kincaid microfiction "Goodbye"
« on: Today at 06:44:24 PM »
It isn't clear what Harry knew.  But Kim knew something about circles before she got there and had some vague idea in her mind about it, I suppose.

She was young and idealistic.  Which is a bad combo.  Sometimes it works and other times it doesn't.  I can certainly cite real world examples.  Mostly you get over it in your 30's.  And then later in life you forget how it was when there were no perceived barriers to what was possible and you had not yet learned you could be hurt.

Don't forget to add hubris to that list, she had modest talent, she thought that made her equal to Harry.

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DF Spoilers / Re: Kincaid microfiction "Goodbye"
« on: Today at 06:32:37 PM »
Yes if Harry had known the circle was not for summoning but for containing something already here he would have reacted differently. He made a wrong assumption.

I think it also made him regard her more negatively which in turn made us regard her more negatively because we see everything through his eyes.

 Yes, the moral of the story is one shouldn't jump to conclusions, that was Harry's error.  However
 Kim's error was not to be truthful with him as to what her problem was.   Her attitude wasn't the best, when Harry asked her how the fundraiser for her movement was going, she gave a litany of
negative things she was fighting against, ending with, "I'm just tired." I think her assumption was from the onset if Harry knew the truth, he wouldn't help, he'd just be another in a long line. So she elected to try and B.S. him, which was the wrong move, because just that alone led Harry to jump to the wrong conclusion..  Because if your need is legitimate, why lie?

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The question is, was that information enough to get her killed.
I think it a bit of a moot point actually.  He refused to tell her everything, she knew it and went back anyway and got killed.  If he told her everything, and he was right about her level of talent, skill, and experience, she still would have failed and been killed.

Face it, she went back and still fiddled with the circle knowing she didn't have all she needed.  When she stomped off she was pissed because she didn't have all the information she needed to fix the circle.   Now the question becomes, did she know how dangerous MacFinn really was?  If she did know, it was suicidal to go back to him.   I doubt that she did know, or even if she did, it was beyond her understanding.  Remember even Harry couldn't completely grasp at first what a Loop was.

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DF Spoilers / Re: Kincaid microfiction "Goodbye"
« on: Today at 12:00:38 PM »
Say I have a lot of knowledge I am doing mysterious and secretive about and clearly gives me status and power and potentially wealth. Knowledge you need to save and protect people.

Then I say you you canít have it because it is dangerous. Does that always work with people?
  Thinking about this a little more, it was truly miscommunication.   Kim thought she had to lie about what she needed the circle for and about MacFinn.   For Harry, and this is constant all through the series, circles are for summoning and the circle kept them in.   The type of circle Kim wanted kept in the most dangerous demons and beings, he had no idea that in this case the monster was already loose.  He thought by not telling her, he was preventing her from summoning something that no way in hell she could handle.  He was right there, there was no way in hell she could handle a Loop, she had no business trying.  He tried very hard to tell her that, but she still wouldn't listen.  The important information Harry didn't have was that the horrific monster was already loose and needed
his only method of protecting the world safe fixed. 

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DF Spoilers / Re: [Spoilers!] First chapter of PT
« on: Yesterday at 11:51:59 PM »
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You've disproved a point no one made. No one here said the first feeding isn't usually lethal. You said feeding is usually lethal. It's not. Thomas explains why at the end of Turn Coat. Also, Thomas was wrong. Bigfoot on Campus proves that.

 In my opinion, you totally misread Thomas,  he has been fighting what he is for years..  That is what Margaret meant in the soul gaze between Harry and Thomas, that he is tired.   It is the point that Lara was making to him for years, humans are prey, kine, food..  The Skinwalker awakened that in Thomas.  Thomas up until then had been different, not wanting to feed until death...

But here is what he says at the end of Turn Coat. Page 413

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"Then talk to me," I said, urgently.  "Thomas, Jesus Christ.  This is notyou." "Yes, it is, he spat, the words a bladed hiss. "That'swhat it taught me, Harry.  At the end of the day, I'm just an empty place that needs to be filled."  "I didn't want to kill those girls.  But I did it.  I killed them over and over, and I loved how it felt.  When I think back on the memory of it, it doesn't make me horrified." He sneered.  "It just makes me hard."

  He points to a woman and a child and says that all he sees is food, then he references tigers and how he feels.. page 414

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"I'm. . . not wandering around blind anymore.  Not trying desperately to be something that I am not."  He looked back down at the tigers.  "Something I can never be."

He goes on to say that killing the kine every time would be stupid, but it goes against their nature.
So yeah, they will feed until death when they can... No problem.. When the Skinwalker mangled her guards, did Lara call an ambulance?  No, she ate well that night.. 




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DF Spoilers / Re: [Spoilers!] First chapter of PT
« on: Yesterday at 07:54:19 PM »
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Morris suggested that all female Whites could be completely infertile. That was what I was responding to. I thought that was clear. Lady Malvora wasn't completely infertile. Therefore all female Whites are not completely infertile.

She is also a head of a house, evidence of being a queen bee.
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That wasn't the point you made or the one I responded to. You said a feeding usually ends in death. It doesn't. You're wrong. I seldom speak in such certainty on this forum because most things are speculative or there is at least an argument for it. You're simply asserting things that are contrary to the text with zero supporting arguments or evidence. You're just making stuff up. Which is fine. That's just headcanon or fan fiction. That's fine. I just think it's silly to suggest that one's headcanon or fan fiction is canon, unless the headcanon has some support somewhere.
Blood Rites page 158   
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"What do you mean again?"  He spoke quietly, his eyes flat. "Inari.  He sent to you when saw you left my chambers."  "If he wanted me dead, why didn't he just come and do it.?""It isn't how the White Court fights, Harry.  We use misdirection, seduction, manipulation. We use others as instruments."  "So your dad used Inari."  Thomas nodded.  "He intended her to have you as her first."  "Um.  First what?"  "First lover," Thomas said. "First Kill."

Now on page 159
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"Let me guess," I said.  "The first feeding is lethal." "Always," Thomas said.
Then...
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"Why in the hell has anyone told her, Thomas? What she is? What the world is really like?" "We are not allowed," Thomas said quietly.  "We have to keep it from her.  It is my father's standard procedure. I didn't know when I was her age either."

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DF Spoilers / Re: [Spoilers!] First chapter of PT
« on: Yesterday at 05:41:17 PM »
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Uhm ... no it doesn't.
Um, unless there is very good control, yes, it does..  This is how Lord Raith entrapped his kids, set them up so they kill their first sex partner.  However you are making my point, since this is how they feed, there should be a lot of little WCvamps running around, and there are not..

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He isn't. There's old whats his name from Bigfoot on Campus.
Refresh me, the memory is vague, but was the talk about sex or reproduction?
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Vittorio Malvora was the son of Cesarina Malvora according to the wiki. https://dresdenfiles.fandom.com/wiki/Vittorio_Malvora. That was my recollection.
Again, she was the head of that House, she might be the fertile one..

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DF Spoilers / Re: Kincaid microfiction "Goodbye"
« on: Yesterday at 05:35:06 PM »
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It's strongly implied. Harry thinks about how the Wardens would kill her for messing around with the circle, I assume because it's related to summoning Outsiders. He doesn't mention this as a reason for not messing with it. In the early books, the WC's existence is very hush hush. This plot point is pretty much dropped later on. Additionally, Kim mentions Harry's the only wizard she's ever heard of.
Yeah, what he does say is that type of circle was used for summoning really bad assed demons.  Which given Kim's level of both knowledge and skill would be totally irresponsible, and cost her her head to boot even if she did pull it off.   

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DF Spoilers / Re: Kincaid microfiction "Goodbye"
« on: Yesterday at 03:57:25 PM »
We know Harry a lot better than she did.

That is also true, which is part of my argument that though he called her his sometime apprentice, that wasn't the kind of relationship they had because by Harry's own estimate, her talents were modest at best, ergo she wouldn't be White Council material, i.e. a future full wizard.   So if he told her anything about the White Council, it would be little because there is a lot he was not allowed to say.  And if she really had the kind of close relationship a master/apprentice is, she should have known she could have trusted Harry to help, especially in this case. 

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DF Spoilers / Re: [Spoilers!] First chapter of PT
« on: Yesterday at 03:50:28 PM »
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There's some ambiguity there.  It may have been only a hundred total after all, or there may have been some vamps standing instead of sitting.  In any case, most of them were only the "leading members of the three major Houses", which would mean there were a bunch of Whites who weren't in attendance.

Or in reality, there are not that many White Court Vamps..  Consider, they feed on emotion, sex is part of that, often until death if it goes that far..  So either there should be a lot of them, creating babies as they feed, or not that many because they are mostly sterile, and if they have sex it usually ends in death for the partner.   Say only Lord Raith is fertile in his House, he has had more than one wife in his long lifetime, while he only fathered one with Margaret, we don't know how many he fathered by his other wives, that adds up over the centuries.  Especially unless killed vamps live a very very long time. 

10
DF Spoilers / Re: Kincaid microfiction "Goodbye"
« on: Yesterday at 12:25:05 PM »
Zealots do not die trying. They know they will win, they have god on their side after all. They die knowing they did the right thing, they know their side will ultimately win etc.I think she just saw no alternative to trying. She probably considered telling Harry more but deemed it too dangerous.

  Which was her fatal error, that, and being over confident in her own modest abilities.

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DF Spoilers / Re: [Spoilers!] First chapter of PT
« on: Yesterday at 04:40:31 AM »
I mean, if Thomas said they took precaution we don't have any reason to believe he is lying, so it is more probable that it is true. Perhaps Justine lied to him, but in any case, he tried to take care, so at least he thought on that. Anyway, there are many differences with Harry's case. Harry was somehow until the influence of rampire spit and it was a "hot of the moment" thing, while Thomas and Justine are an stable couple that have a lot of sex on a regular basis, so of course they had time to thought about babies and making plans. But that is not all. IIRC due to the need to break the True Love thing and be able to have sex with each other they need to have sex with other partners. In that situation and due to STD it is more than probable than Thomas is effectively using condoms everytime, as it is the best shield for STD transmission.
I agree, but if he were, she shouldn't have gotten pregnant.  I just looked it up, apparently there is a one in fourteen chance of failure with condoms.  That whole paragraph is kind of weird though.  On what did Thomas base his notion that he was basically sterile?  If he believed that, other than fear of STD transmission why use a condom every time?  I still think that was the original bases for Lord Raith's power, he could reproduce where the rest couldn't.  Thinking back though the series, the White Court seemed to consist of families, and they were all related some how and rather small in number.  Remember the gathering where Toot's friends were enslaved and used as living lamps and Harry freed them?  If I remember correctly it was a gathering of all the clans and it only amounted to a hundred or so.  Lara hires vanilla humans as her muscle and guards, why when given their power and strength White Court Vamps would be much more effective.  Unless there aren't enough of them to do that.

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DF Spoilers / Re: [Spoilers!] First chapter of PT
« on: Yesterday at 12:31:43 AM »
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Papa Raith fathered Lara & her two sisters, Thomas and some number (do we HAVE a number?  Let's guess 2-4...) of brothers, and Inari.  Let's call it 7-10 children, all told, across the centuries.

Which made him "king."  Consider though, were all his wives non-vamps?
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Mira, this time I agree with the others, the text says that Thomas took precautions, so I don't see any reason not to believe him.

But he still could have meant that Justine took the birth control precautions, not him, he thought he was all but sterile..  Because of that I don't blame him, but I am not about to say he was smarter than Harry on the subject, until we know the type of birth control used.

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DF Spoilers / Re: Kincaid microfiction "Goodbye"
« on: March 27, 2020, 09:01:15 PM »
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Dresden is one among about seven billion people on the planet.  If warlocks are cropping up like mushrooms, then any choice Dresden makes in that regard will be buried in the statistical noise.  Even in Chicago.

As they say, you do what you can..  If Harry can keep one or two kids from the chop, that is one or two lives saved, that is a big deal whether you bury it in statistical noise or not..
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Say Dresden has helped ten and lost one of those, Kim.  That means his success rate is 90 percent.  Having said that, since you don't know what happens after Dresden interacted with them, it's possible that some number of the ones he helped fell out anyway.  You don't know what you don't know.

But at least he tries and he cares,  if he chooses to do nothing, then all those kids are headed for the chop or worse, a life of evil... Not everyone can be like Charity and have a Knight of the Cross save her from a dragon and change her life.
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We do however know what happened in Kim's case.  She died. If his point was to help Kim, the by any standard you might want to use, the outcome was less than optimal.  It doesn't matter if Kim was an effing shit show. If the point was to help her with her magic, then it was a fail. She wasn't helped.

Kim was an outlier though,  her zealotry for her cause over rode all her common sense and everything she had learned.  There was only so much Harry can teach, he cannot get into her head and make her choices for her.

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DF Spoilers / Re: [Spoilers!] First chapter of PT
« on: March 27, 2020, 08:51:03 PM »
That's been know for years, since the first Chapter was a giveaway, way back when.

If Thomas took precautions he was smarter than Harry. :)

Really?  Did he wear a condom every time?  ::) Oh I see, the one time he forgot or it had a hole in it.... :o   Let's not forget he was sure he was all but sterile, so he most likely relied on Justine to do what was needed..   Since Justine ended up pregnant, obviously Thomas isn't any smarter than Harry...

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DF Spoilers / Re: [Spoilers!] First chapter of PT
« on: March 27, 2020, 08:47:40 PM »
I am confused. I seem to remember that Thomas already told Harry of Justine's pregnancy before. Where have I read that?
And in the chapter he hears it for the first time. I thought he already knew. Weird.

A year or so ago more or less he did two I believe sneak preview chapters.  He has apparently reworked them a bit so while it is basically the same, it is also different.
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Unless the results of pregnancy were a 50/50 chance of dying.

In art as in real life, that doesn't always stop it from happening.  If I remember correctly Justine has always had some emotional issues that the White Court thing actually helped.  Anyway, it could be because she loves Thomas so much she wants to give him a child no matter the risks to her own health and the baby being born with a demon/parasite inside of it..  Then again a possible tin hat theory, we know that true love can burn out the demon,  maybe that is what Jim has in mind for either Thomas or the baby, or both?

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