I  think that Uriel  out-Mab'ed Mab, here......  However if Harry opts for what comes next he will be judged as we all will when we face Judgement.
 Here is what Uriel says; same page 454 Ghost Story... You will remember that Harry did choose what comes next, though since he really wasn't all dead, he never went on to what comes next.


Here's the thing: "What Comes Next" is entirely informed by -- quoting Uriel -- "the consequences for all that you have done while alive.  When judged, what you have done will be taken into account."

It wasn't Harry's time; he wasn't dead.  So his "what comes next" was just more opportunities to perform the actions upon which he would be judged, i.e. the very foundations of (and effectively thus part of)  Harry's "... part involving words like forever, eternity, and judgement."

Uriel told Harry the precise truth.
It just didn't mean what Harry thought it did.

Uriel did tell Harry the truth, whether Harry thought he was going to his Judgement or not..  Uriel told Harry he'd be judged on what he did in his life..  No warning in that, since it isn't Uriel's place to judge Harry one way or the other.  Now Harry can take stock in his own life and decide for himself if he needs to atone for some things, improve on others, or did the right thing.. All this has an effect on how he will live his future life, it all comes down to free will.. As a human being Harry has free will to do as he wishes, however when the Day comes, he will be judged for the bad as well as the good he did in his life.

My apologies, I was confused. I conflated the conversation Harry has with Jack Murphy with the conversation Harry has with Uriel. Captain Murphy says "with your record, son, you could just as easily find yourself on a south bound train."

But I do think Uriel does warn Harry. He says "you cannot escape the consequences of your choices." That's a pretty big warning to me.

I am not sure I agree though that Harry didn't face What Comes Next. That was what came next, for Harry. At least at that point. There'll be another Next at some point, unless Harry achieves immortality (and even then it's not assured).

Captain Murphy's statement was ambiguous in my opinion.. "you could just as easily find.."  In other words morality can get complicated, you can do the right thing morally but the consequences from that act could be very bad..  So do you go to Heaven for doing the right thing?  Or to hell because doing the right thing in that case had a lot of bad consequences?   

Uriel was merely speaking the truth, no one can escape the consequences of their choices.. There was no judgement in that, Harry has free will to do as he pleases, no warning that he needs to shape up because he is on a slippery slope, but he does have to keep in mind one day he will be judged.  Also "consequences" doesn't mean just bad ones, there are also good consequences as Uriel points out to Harry in "The Warrior," where some of Harry's seemingly minor choices made without a second thought had very good consequences for those involved..  All choices have consequences, good and bad upon which Harry will one day be judged and have to answer for.

Just a personal opinion but this reader will really be disappointed if somehow Harry becomes an immortal.. 

I more meant Heaven - which while we don't know for a fact exists in the Dresden Files (Uriel was exceptionally tight lipped on the subject) - I think it is heavily implied to exist. Uriel wasn't so sure Harry would end up there either, when Harry last flirted with death. I wonder where Harry is on the scale now.

I remember that passage from Ghost Story, and Uriel didn't say one way or the other, though Uriel is an archangel, it isn't his place or job to judge Harry or anyone else.

Not all people in the world do actually hold that as a central idea. Many places do not have the luxury of the kind of freedom we enjoy. Some places and societies even believe that they prefer a lessening of one's personal freedoms for the "greater good" of their society. I am sure you can work out which places those are. But even in countries like the US, not everyone holds liberty as highly as others. Hence all the politics. But Harry does hold liberty highly, higher than most. He might not be Ron Swanson (if you have ever seen Parks and Rec) and not believe in no government etc but I would say he is less likely to allow himself to be governed than ever before. I will concede that he seems to have more respect for mortal governments than supernatural ones...which is highly interesting.

I haven't seen Parks and Rec, but Harry does allow himself to be governed, as Winter Knight, he is governed by Mab.. Yes, he wiggles as much as he can with in her rules and the rules that govern the Winter Court, but he respects them and obeys most of them.

I mean, it's hard to say. Depending on your definition of corruption - is it simply corrupted by its own political power, or has black magic corrupted their purpose etc. At one point, Harry thought that the White Council was so corrupt and infiltrated by the theoretical Black Council, that he needed to help create a Grey Council (whatever happened to them, by the way, haven't heard a peep from them in 5 books). Ebenezar constantly would chastise Harry for suggesting there should be no White Council, even suggested that it might be worth Harry's life for suggesting such a thing in days gone by. I think the question becomes does Harry think the current White Council is too corrupt to exist?

It isn't a simple problem of the White Council being infiltrated by the likes of the Black Council.. Harry wants to reform, not to abolish the White Council.  I don't ever remember where Harry was arguing with Eb that there should be no White Council.  However there is a bit of a problem when a large percentage of future wizards lose their heads because they make mistakes when their talent awakes and the fear that they may go warlock.. And then there are those that do go warlock because there aren't enough wizards to take them under their wing.. You see the problem here, wizards live a long time, but new blood is needed, and the rules that worked great six hundred or so years ago might not work quite as well in the 21st Century.

Oooh, I am not sure I agree with that. One of the clearest parts of the series is about how much individual choices matter. Harry has chosen his path, no one walked it for him. The consequences of it are on him. Earlier in the series he chose to be a loner, but these days it's worse than that. He made deals with vampires and faeries and other monsters, he pushed against the White Council's restrictions and even got himself in political fights with them, he has lied and pushed away many of his former allies in order to "save" them but also to protect himself, and he has done a LOT of questionable stuff that without context doesn't look great from the outside (and even with context some of which still is pretty questionable). Most of all, he has gathered a hell of a lot of personal and political power in a very short amount of time. That's the sort of thing that scares people. It's not for nothing that Mab loves Harry's rise to power.

Harry has never chosen to be a loner, he isn't a social butterfly, but he never was a loner.. He has always had friends, Michael for one.. There have always been those who have sacrificed themselves not just for his causes, but for him because of their love for
him. 

Are you sure about that? His disdain for the White Council is fairly evident. He refused to attend regular Council meetings, barely visits HQ in Edinburgh (to the point that only Rashid, the most mysterious wizard, visited less), refused for the longest time to learn proper Latin or wear a formal robe (he literally wore a dirty bath robe - if that isn't disrespectful I don't know what is), argued publicly with the Merlin and actually beat him politically, refused for the longest time to be a Warden (openly hated them until he was forced to be one), and after "dying" ended up with a powerful new role in a shady group (the Winter Court) and refused to tell the White Council what was going on until Rashid did it for him.

Just because he doesn't attend the White Council's meetings doesn't mean he has no respect for them.  Yeah, he didn't wear the proper robe to the meeting once but his good robe was covered in puke, blood, or cat poop I cannot remember which... That was also at a time when Harry was suffering clearly from severe depression his person and apartment reflected that.  Learning any language takes time, Harry didn't know the White Council existed until he was arrested by them and they nearly took his head. He never finished high school though he did eventually get his GED.. He was still of high school age when he went to live with Eb.. Eb could have made him finish high school and take Latin, but he didn't.  His argument with the Merlin was out of respect for the very rules of the White Council, and it was under those very rules he was able to save Molly.. If he had no faith in those rules he wouldn't have advised her to surrender to the Wardens in the first place..  Harry was under the Doom for years, and after many on the Council didn't want him, it was only out of nessesity that Luccio drafted him.

But really, who is Harry to decide what the rules of the White Council (or any form of government) should be? What has he done in his life to show that he should be trusted with good governance and is an expert on such things? I don't think you want the human wrecking ball deciding on public policy.

He isn't deciding what the rules of the White Council should be, but he does question whether or not they are all that they could be.    Governments of any form are not perfect, sometimes bad laws are made, ineffective laws are made, some laws that worked great a hundred years ago, no longer apply now, the smarter governments recognize this and evolve.. Actually what has happened in Harry's life and what he has seen has made him very expert in these things, he nearly was a victim. 

As above, I think Harry has done plenty to isolate himself. That's what Ebenezar was warning him about. Yes, the White Council is its own worst enemy. Yes, Harry has been pushed and manipulated and yes, their were plenty of extenuating circumstances to the things Harry has done. But. Harry's distrust and fear of the White Council and some of his own allies has kept them in the dark, and that is why they don't know why he is doing what he is doing. He might even be right to keep them in the dark - but that's the choice he made, and the consequences are on him.

He isn't the only one, Rashid is another who has isolated himself from the Council, but he has years of experience on how to do it without alienation of the Council.  However that isolation is a two way street, the Council's own prejudice against Harry because of who his mother was has gone a long way to isolate Harry.

Harry is highly logical at times, but he is also incredibly emotional. Look at what he has done when emotional. He even knows and admits how little he is in control during those moments. Even so, logic alone won't be enough to stop him being manipulated. It's too late - he already has been manipulated. He is already outside the Council and prepared to fight them. It's a power keg scenario. Do you really think Harry Dresden, paragon of self-control, will hold back when the White Council does something harsh and unfair like try and arrest him for trumped up charges or perhaps attack those he loves? What if they arrest or kill friends of his? What if they took Maggie away? Harry would burn them to the ground. He's done it before. He's way stronger now, far more dangerous.

And should he?  Really? Who was in control in Peace Talks, Eb or Harry?  Who understood from the beginning that he didn't have a chance toe to toe with Eb and figured out a way around it? 

I mean, unless Harry becomes immortal...which has been hinted at. But I think Harry might go the Vadderung model if he does, rather than the Mab one. Something a bit more flexible. That said, after everything Harry has been through I think it would almost cruel to have to live more in the mortal plane (whether he is immortal or otherwise). Harry deserves to find peace and be with his family again.

  If Harry dies, it will be at the end I hope surrounded by his children and grandchildren.  I don't want to see Harry made into some kind of immortal of any stripe.  He does deserve peace, and after it is over, if he is surrounded by friends and family, he will have it.

Well, it's just a philosophical position. Which doesn't mean he follows every tenet of it. But he does surely hold the central tenet of liberty (the freedom from oppressive restrictions imposed by an authority on one's life) is a core value of his. So, even if he isn't a Libertarian in the sense of a political movement (and I was a bit unclear on that, I apologise) he is a follower of the philosophy.

It doesn't make him a libertarian, it just makes him an ordinary human who wishes to havethe freedom to mostly live his life as he sees fit.  That's no different from the rest of us, and most of us understand there are still laws we all have to abide by or there would be anarchy.  Harry understands that also.

But I am not suggesting he believes the world would be better without the White Council, yet. I do think he thinks the world is better off without a corrupt one, though. Which I think it could be argued the current one, is.

I don't think anyone disagrees with that except maybe some of the old fossilized wizards, however having said that I don't think for the most part that the White Council is corrupt so much as it needs to be reformed and updated to fit better into the 21st  Century.

As Ebenezar has pointed out, Harry is being isolated. By his own choice, to a degree. But also by his new allies like Mab. From Harry's perspective, he is making the best choices he can. But that doesn't mean he isn't being isolated.

However that isn't an isolation of choice on Harry's part.. That kind of isolation isn't the same as choosing to be a loner.

Ultimately though, Harry himself admits openly his distrust and disdain for authority. Every single book has had him clash with some sort of authority. I would even go so far to say it's a core part of his character - to clash with authority. He has improved a lot since the early days, is a bit wiser about how he goes about it and understands the issues better now. But he doesn't want to rule anyone, because he himself doesn't wish to be ruled.

Again, I disagree, Harry has reason to distrust authority, but that isn't the same as having a disdain for authority.  His clashes with authority in most of the books is about what the rules should be and living by those rules, not about disregarding the rules. 

Something else to consider. If the White Council had an enemy or group of enemies out there, who wanted to remove them, who found them inconvenient - one of the best and oldest tricks to do it is divide and conquer. Now, what enemy might the White Council have? A shadowy organisation with links to eldritch demon gods...? If, say, that organisation knew of a powerful, rebellious wizard and knew that by isolating him and playing into his fears and pressuring him it might send him on a collision course with the White Council, how might they go about that?

Well, that is a technique as old as when mankind first began to organize into groups.  In this case it isn't Harry doing the isolation, the White Council is it's own worst enemy.  The enemy plays upon the White Council's own fossilized view of the world, not much Harry can do about that.  He has clashed with the White Council at Molly's trial, and Rashid has foretold that he will clash with them again... However that doesn't mean that it is a bad thing if he does.

Would they just tell him to attack the White Council, make some offer for power that he wouldn't take? Or would they turn his allies against him? Misconstrue his actions and best intentions to look as bad as possible? Create an environment of fear and distrust in order to push people to act in certain ways, say, kicking a White Council hero off the team? Target his friends and family in order to get him to act rashly? Perhaps even put years of work into him just to get him to the moment he might act?

Except I cannot see Harry doing that, nor does the series point to that happening in my opinion.  Harry is too logical a being, that's part of his makeup as a good private detective.

Harry is perfectly capable of killing the black magic crazed warlocks, but he would want to give a shot at rehabilitation to all the border cases. He thinks the council should make an effort to save those who are not far gone, and he'd argue for lifting the Doom for their trainers. Setting up a central lor several regional schools and requiring Council members to staff them for a set term would at least give them a chance to save the next generation.

Agreed, though I think the Merlin was right in the case of the Koren Kid, he was too far down the tubes to rehab with the Doom. I do think Harry was also right when he argued in Molly's defense, that most of these kids deserve a chance at rehab.  The problem Harry will run into will be the same problem that the Merlin and the White Council have run into, enough qualified wizards willing to take on the risk of being responsible for an apprentice under the Doom, since they themselves would suffer the same fate if the apprentice went full warlock.  And yes, I think Harry capable of executing a full warlock kid.  Harry may find himself having to reform the system so that it is fair to kids who do dumb dangerous stuff with their new found talent before they know better, and at the same time weeding out those who cannot be redeemed... Easier said than done...

Assuming he survives "when all is said and done".

I think what's particularly interesting to consider is how long Harry will live, and how much will we see of his whole existence. Wizards live several hundred years, and give this story goes into the End of Days and is titled "The Dresden Files" one might assume we see his whole story. Jim has openly said in previous interviews that he isn't sure if Harry will survive the series.

Not maybe as we have known him, but Harry will survive.  But then again, Jim is now successful enough that if he loses some readers because he kills Harry off it won't hurt him that much.  Also consider, Jim has already "killed" Harry off once and brought him back, and he isn't the same Harry he was before, nor is his world.

t only that, I think it should be noted that Harry fundamentally rejects authority. While he has matured and become less abrasive, he ultimately still dislikes the idea of any governing body being in charge of him or anyone else. He's quite the libertarian. So, in the event the White Council does dissolve, I don't know that Harry would be the one to rebuild it. That's more of a Carlos type-of-thing.

Yes, young Harry rejected authority in a lot of ways, corrupt authority especially.  I disagree, Harry is no libertarian, not in the classic sense.  Up until they rejected him outright, Harry had a lot of respect for the White Council from just the way he talked about it.  No, he didn't follow all the rules all of the time, but more out of nessesity rather than disregard for them or belief that they didn't have merit.  Go back to his debate with the Merlin in his defense of Molly in Proven Guilty, that wasn't argued by a libertarian, it was argued by a future Merlin wanting the White Council to follow it's own rules.  Carlos maybe still young but he still represents the old guard, Harry is the new.

Dresden is an outsider (not the monster...probably...that's another theory for another day). But he doesn't want to be part of the establishment. He likes being on the outer. Look at his last conversation with Carlos.

Harry didn't leave the White Council, the White Council left him.  I also disagree that Harry likes being an outsider, he cannot afford to be with the BAT coming.  He has to learn to play well with others and become a leader.  This is what makes the series interesting, Harry has to evolve and is evolving, he has had to learn to play nice with some and reject others, watching him grow up is what makes the series compelling.

I think Harry and Lara do marry ...do the wild thing honeymoon...and Lara conceives...just a afterthought twist... besides Maggie needs to be a big sister. 😳😜👍

She already is..

I don't think Chandler was all that young, or that we know he had any "rapid rise in rank."  I got much more of a sense that he was long-established as a warden (and rather older than Dresden), by the time we first meet him.  Of course, this would just put him into the "50-250" range of wizardly "almost unaging," so we can't really be at all sure.

  I don't think Chandler is that much older than Harry, but I agree he is older, perhaps fifty to seventy.  I do think though that he has been a Warden a lot longer than either Harry or Carlos. 

Not sure about WoJ. My gut still says Chandler is a bad guy and that Drakul didn't send him to a bad place. I mean, really. Why waste a wizard level talent by sending them to nothingness when you could turn him into a Blampire?

Odd, I feel the opposite, I predict that in Mirror Mirror Harry will rescue and return with him and the White Council won't trust him because of it. Thus Chandler will also be kicked not only out of the Wardens but the White Council as well.  This will allow him to join Harry and fill the role left vacant by the retirement of Michael, imprisonment of Thomas, and rejection of friendship by Carlos.

The naive (aka ignorant) POV is one of the key types of "unreliable narrator."

And Harry is always ignorant.

  That,isn't true because always[/i ] implies an absolute..  Harry may be or can be ignorant in some areas, but he isn't always ignorant in all areas.. However if you want to agree that you too are always ignorant, I will admit to that as well, since there are a lot of things you and I don't know, thus are always ignorant.

He starts that way (q.v. Jim writing an actual, literal, "talking head" to "educate" Harry); but, despite how much he has learned, Harry stays that way:

    he's a magical heavyweight, and he's fighting his way into the deeper & murkier end of the supernatural power-pool
    he's also a PI, so he inquires & investigates as a central element of his professional life

Despite all he has learned, he keeps forging out beyond what he knows, into new areas... areas where he's still ignorant.

Or do you call that curiosity?  Without curiosity there is no progress.. However exploring new areas isn't simple, it is always complicated, and an intelligent person knows he or she doesn't know everything.. So Harry is a detective, he is investigating to find answers, but with the answers come more questions to find answers to..  Yup, Harry is ignorant, just like you and I.

Finally, I reiterate:  Jim himself says that Harry is an unreliable narrator.  When professional writer (who has not only a bunch of successful novels, but a bunch of academic & workshop training in writing) says "I used this well-known method" ... I honestly don't understand why it's so important to you to deny it.

Just Googled it;

What Is an Unreliable Narrator in Writing? An unreliable narrator is an untrustworthy storyteller, most often used in narratives with a first-person point of view. The unreliable narrator is either deliberately deceptive or unintentionally misguided, forcing the reader to question their credibility as a storyteller.Sep 29, 2021

Yes, the Dresden Files is written in the first person.
 
Is Harry an untrustworthy storyteller?  Sometimes due to his own errors and mistakes, but is he always untrustworthy? No, he isn't..

Is Harry deliberately deceptive in his story telling?  I'd say not..

Unintentionally misguided? Sometimes, but not always..

Forcing the reader to question their credibility as a storyteller?  For some of you apparently.. However when you have lived as long as I have, it is easier to see the whole picture of a person's life, the series covers a huge chunk of Harry's life.  Perhaps I am the only one here, but there is no way I could read and reread over a dozen books written in the first person if I felt the story teller had no credibility as a story teller.. What a waste of my time!  And yes, Jim is a good successful writer, he knows that as well!  He skillfully mixes the two, the reliable with the unreliable, so we are looking for the truth along with Harry, thenwhen the truth is found, and since it is written in first person, we the reader usually accept the truth, that Harry has found out and is reliably telling us!   

OK, this is an entirely different point!  And it can be a crutch, yes; but equally, it can be simply point out that just because Harry says such-and-such is "true" (like his early reports of Mab being "the archetypal evil queen"), that too isn't really "evidence" that "such-and-such" is a "truth" of the Dresdenverse.

Thank you, that is my point! Too many use it as a crutch..

Yes, I am merely pointing out that what Harry said when he was young and inexperienced might not be true,but for him in that point in time, it was true.. So the picture he paints of Mab in Summer Knight was unreliable. However as he gotten older and understands more, the picture he paints of Mab now, is much more reliable.  Or if Jane Austin wrote "Pride and Prejudice" in the first person, that person being Elizabeth, or Darcy for that matter, both would be very unreliable narrators because their first impressions of each other were totally wrong.