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Messages - Mira

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31
DF Spoilers / Re: What changes with Battleground
« on: May 26, 2020, 05:52:04 PM »


  1] Big shake up on the Senior Council, it becomes even more polarized.
 2]  I can see Eb dying, but I doubt that Harry will become Blackstaff, simply because he is
already Winter Knight, and the Warden of Demonreach.  I cannot see anyone going along with
him holding all three jobs at once.
  3]  Yeah, I agree I think Murphy is going to die heroically.  That scene with her cutting off her cast in the trailer is too pointed.  If she is that physically impaired it is doubtful that she makes it through plausibly. 
  4]  I can see new cooperation between the two Courts led by Molly and Sarrissa along with their Knights, but I think it will be hard for both Titania and Mab to give up power.  Watch Lea taking a bigger role siding with Harry and her Lady, Molly over Mab's plans.
   5]  I think we may see Nic, because of the influence of the Grail actually give up his coin and Harry  makes him a Holy Knight weilding the Sword of Love.. He also dies.

32
DF Spoilers / Re: Is Harry Senior Council Level?
« on: May 26, 2020, 03:43:42 PM »
Quote from: Avernite on May 26, 2020, 03:29:26 PM
I would say - clearly no.

Harry has an image, but no political base.

He also doesn't have the depth of experience on other fields than open combat.

That said, he does have the required magical juice, so in a century or 2 he'd make a great candidate if he can overcome his aversion to connecting with anyone but other youngsters (or just make sure enough fellow youngsters become old too).

  Yeah, I don't think it is a matter of talent or juice,  it is more youth, lack of experience, and the politics that currently surround him.  Someday perhaps, but at the moment there is too much prejudice against him given who his mother was and will be more as information about Thomas and even Eb comes out.

33
DF Spoilers / Re: Is Harry Senior Council Level?
« on: May 26, 2020, 02:07:27 PM »
Quote from: Con on May 26, 2020, 11:39:37 AM
Of course, but I think he could potentially pull a Cristos, with the Wardens and Younger Generation to get a spot on the council. It would be a good twist, him pulling the same stunt, and Harry could actually do it and pull it off, if he needed to. Klaus the Toymaker would just sigh and concede again.

Admittedly a WAG but a fun one.

I cannot remember what happened exactly when Eb got the post, but if I remember correctly only the Senior Council can vote on new members.   That makes a huge difference, I can see Harry getting at least three votes, perhaps four if Martha Liberty goes along with Rashid, Eb, and Listens to  Wind, but I cannot see any of the other members voting for him, including the Merlin.  I also think if the vote includes the rest of the members the vote would still be split along political lines, the older conservatives who are suspicious of Harry, those that are just jealous, and the younger group that admire him for a number of reasons, not the least his ability to shake things up.

34
DF Spoilers / Re: Is Harry Senior Council Level?
« on: May 26, 2020, 11:11:29 AM »


Yes, he is, but he is too young, inexperienced, and more to the point political to be voted on the Senior Council, or is seen that way by all including Eb I think.

35
DF Spoilers / Re: "Job placement" microfiction
« on: May 25, 2020, 09:10:40 PM »
Quote from: Bad Alias on May 25, 2020, 07:13:43 PM
That's not evidence that it's anesthesia. Not even a little bit.

Not if the probing was passive.
Emphasis added. Exactly. You don't know. You strongly believe. I even agree that Peabody probably used ink on everyone. But we don't know that or how the ink worked. It's silly to pretend that you know one way or the other.

  Eb, Turn Coat

Quote
"Warden Ramirez and I searched Peabody's chambers thoroughly not twenty minutes ago.  A test of the inks he used to attain the signatures of the Senior Council for various authorizations revealed the presence of a number of chemical and alchemical substances that are known to have been used to assist psychic manipulation of their subjects.  It is my belief that Peabody has been drugging the ink for the purpose of attempting greater mental influence over the decisions of members of the Senior Council, and that it is entirely possible that he has compromised the free will of younger members of the Council outright."
Um, the ink contained known substances used to assist in psychic manipulation.. That is pretty good evidence... 

Quote
That's not evidence that it's anesthesia. Not even a little bit.

Not if the probing was passive.

The probing wasn't passive...  Consider what he did to Luccio's mind, that wasn't passive.  He influenced to the point where all decisions made for the last ten years or more have to be reconsidered, that is hardly passive... 

Yeah, if the mind can be dulled to the point where it doesn't know it's being probed, that is anesthesia..  Novocaine is a local anesthesia, one doesn't have to be knocked out.  The mind was numbed, defenses lowered so he could probe and influence, I'd call that good evidence of anesthesia like properties.

36
DF Spoilers / Re: "Job placement" microfiction
« on: May 25, 2020, 06:22:44 PM »
Quote

I think the explanation that Peabody needed the ink more plausible. But we really only know three things. The ink is for mind control. The ink was used on the Senior Council. Peabody didn't mind control Harry without the ink when they were alone.

Harry never signed anything that Peabody wanted him to sign.   So no contact with ink, no mind control..

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I don't think there is any direct evidence that the ink is anesthesia. There is evidence that Peabody needed the ink to use mind magic on a young warden. He was unwilling to use evocation mind magic on Harry when no one was around even when he was in panic mode, if we believe Murphy's theory. Everything was falling apart. The walls were closing in. There wasn't just a slight risk of detection.

Evidence is Peabody was messing with wizard minds for a decade or more, that is why the Senior Council needed to revisit all of the decisions it made in that time.  How is it possible that none of these senior wizards had any clue that they were being mentally manipulated?  Um, the ink is your answer, " revealed the presence of a number of chemical and alchemical substances that are known to have been used to assist psychic manipulation of their subjects."    No, he didn't put his subjects to sleep, but it numbed the senses just enough to leave them open to suggestion and they had no clue that it was going on... 
Quote
Now Harry isn't your average wizard. Harry's mind is a natural fortress. It could be that Peabody probed Harry's mind and found out about his natural mental toughness. Or it could be that he needed the ink for any wizard.
If Peabody had probed Harry's mind first, Harry would have known it.  I doubt that Peabody touched any wizard's mind until he softened up their resistance and awareness first with his magic ink.

37
DF Spoilers / Re: "Job placement" microfiction
« on: May 25, 2020, 11:24:07 AM »
Quote from: g33k on May 25, 2020, 05:50:24 AM
No, only that he uses the ink; not that he "needs" it.

Harry doesn't "need" his staff, or his blasting rod, or his shield bracelet, or his force rings, etc etc etc.

But he uses them, nonetheless!
 
We just don't know enough about Peabody; but I suspect it's something similar -- he uses the ink to enhance or leverage or hide or ... (???) his magic.  Maybe to serve more than one purpose!
   I think you are totally missing the point here of what Eb was saying.   Does Peabody need to use the ink to get inside of minds?  He is a fully qualified wizard, secretary to the Senior Council, that means he has skills.   A surgeon has the skill to take out a liver without anesthesia,  but the patient would be very aware that he was doing it.   That is the whole point of the ink, "revealed the presence of a number of chemical and alchemical substances that are known to have been used to assist psychic manipulation of their subjects."     

  Peabody screwed with the minds of fully qualified wizards, like the patient under the knife getting his liver removed without anesthesia, he'd know it was happening ..  If someone is trying to manipulate a full wizard's brain, they know it..   Doing that kind of thing is forbidden, punishable by death.   So just as anesthesia makes the surgeon's job a lot easier if the patient is asleep while he removes the liver, the ink numbed the brains of his fellow wizards enough that they weren't unaware that Peabody was tip toeing in their heads, making it easier and safer for him. 

Repeat, it wasn't ordinary ink that was found in Peabody's room, it was ink " revealed the presence of a number of chemical and alchemical substances that are known to have been used to assist psychic manipulation of their subjects."   It really doesn't matter whether or not he needed it, the whole point is he used it.   Could he have manipulated their brains without it?  Yeah, he is a full wizard, he could, but at great risk of detection..  The use of the ink eliminated that risk.. 

So on the academic question on whether or not Peabody needed the ink to pull off mental manipulation of his fellow wizards?  No, any qualified wizard could do that.

However on the question of whether or not he could carry it on for years without the anesthesia of
the ink compromising the free will and awareness of his subjects?  No, he needed the ink..  Like liver
surgery, if the patient is awake, they know what is happening.   

As Eb said, " It is my belief that Peabody has been drugging the ink for the purpose of attempting greater mental influence over the decisions of members of the Senior Council, and that it is entirely possible that he has compromised the free will of younger members of the Council outright."

Yeah, the ink's sole purpose was to hide and leverage his magic..  And yeah, he needed it, maybe not so much on the youngsters, but on the decision makers, he couldn't pulled it off without it.   

38
DF Spoilers / Re: "Job placement" microfiction
« on: May 25, 2020, 03:04:13 AM »
Quote from: g33k on May 24, 2020, 09:29:29 PM
I don't think we know enough to know if Peabody "needed" his ink, or if the ink just made his magic harder-to-detect (and thus less risky, more pervasive), or what the exact mechanisms were.

Harry dismissively labeled Peabody a "bureaucromancer," and I think in some ways that isn't far off, and ink is a central feature of his magic.  In the SummerKnight bit quoted above, Peabody appears to have used magical ink on himself.  Presumably, a different kind of ink, but still ...

Eb believes the theory and along with Ramirez finds evidence and testifies to it in court.

page 386 Turn Coat

Quote
"Working on the evidence Dresden found," Ebenezer said, "Warden Ramirez and I searched Peabody's chambers thoroughly not twenty minutes ago.  A test of the inks he used to attain the signatures of the Senior Council for various authorizations revealed the presence of a number of chemical and alchemical substances that are known to have been used to assist psychic manipulation of their subjects.  It is my belief that Peabody has been drugging the ink for the purpose of attempting greater mental influence over the decisions of members of the Senior Council, and that it is entirely possible that he has compromised the free will of younger members of the Council outright."

There is your evidence.

39
DF Spoilers / Re: "Job placement" microfiction
« on: May 24, 2020, 07:01:00 PM »
Quote from: Arjan on May 24, 2020, 06:04:04 PM
Peabody tried to get his ink on Harry but that failed. Apparently Peabody needs the ink to be successful or he decided it was just too risky to try it without his ink. A good reason to assume he used it most of the time.

  I think Peabody did need his ink, that is why he tried so hard to get Harry to sign some papers with his pen and ink.  Without the ink, the subject/victim is aware that someone is trying to get in their head..

40
DF Spoilers / Re: "Job placement" microfiction
« on: May 22, 2020, 05:46:58 PM »
Quote from: Arjan on May 22, 2020, 04:06:18 PM
The first time Peabody is shown in Summer Knight he already uses his ink to influence things:

From Summer Knight:
A few moments later:, and he reached into the papers seemingly at random. He drew out a single page, put it on the desk before him, nodded in satisfaction, then read in a reedy voice, "Wizard Montjoy."

I did not check it but I think he is always mentioned together with his ink as seemingly inseperable. Me I would never use that even before the computer they invented ball points and those are far more convenient.

 Exactly, and I believe I wrote a post connecting the passages to what happened in Turn Coat shortly after it came out.

Quote

And your first paragraph is purely speculative, especially "without the ink Peabody couldn't of pulled off the mind influence"; we know mindbending without inks is possible (see Molly and Corpsetaker), so the question is, did Peabody use the inks on everyone and then something else on top for the youngsters, or did he use the inks on people whose minds he couldn't really remodel (and so he needed a more subtle way in) while using direct mind magic on more susceptible targets.

No one said it wasn't possible without the ink, but usually the victim, especially an experienced wizard knows when someone is messing with his/her mind directly.  They had no clue and all were exposed to Peabody's ink at one time or another.
Quote
The ink was just there to make mind manipulation easier for Peabody. He used it on Listen to Wind, he tried to use it on Harry. He probably used it on Luccio to. No reason not to use it when it makes everything easier.

Except that it makes also handy evidence if found.

Indeed, but the catch was because all were under the influence they didn't suspect it.  Only Harry who wasn't exposed began to put two and two together.

41
DF Spoilers / Re: "Job placement" microfiction
« on: May 22, 2020, 11:16:11 AM »
Quote from: Avernite on May 21, 2020, 10:33:18 PM
I agree there's nothing decisive, though I left that last bit of Eb's statement out on purpose as equal.

You could argue that it means the inks could be used to mindbend outright, or I could argue it shows how grossly, based on investigating just the inks, Eb underestimated what Peabody could do. "it is entirely possible" compared to "basically every younger warden had his or her mind remodelled to some extent with a stop-switch, up to and including suicide bomb level like Luccio".

 It wasn't just Eb who underestimated Peabody, the whole damn Council did, witness the damage he did at his trial.   It was the ink, without the ink Peabody couldn't of pulled off the mind influence. The ink acted as a mind numbing drug for lack of a better word, then Peabody was able to suggest all kinds of things and because of the ink, the victim no matter how experienced or powerful wasn't aware that he or she was being manipulated.   Luccio was merely the most overt, most of the influence was much more subtle,  effecting Senior Council decisions for years and no one noticed.  That is why I think it was Eb, said the Council would have to go back at least ten years to revisit all
the decisions it made. 

Most young wizards weren't effected simply because most of them weren't in positions where they'd come in contact with the secretary for the Senior Council demanding that they sign this paper or that paper that often or at all.  That is what saved Harry's butt, even though he had moved up the Warden command chain, he hardly if ever went to headquarters.  Interesting that one of the first things when he did show up he was harassed by Peabody wanting him to "sign" this paper or that, which being Harry, he didn't do.

42
DF Spoilers / Re: Souls and Ghosts.
« on: May 21, 2020, 01:05:34 PM »
Quote
It's important because it's the the central conceit of Ghost Story, is he or isn't he dead?  Jim appears to be very flexible about ghosthood.  In Grave Peril Harry dies so he can come back as a ghost and then get revived to save the day.  He has Harry and Harry's ghost attack Kravos at the same time. All while in a dream no less.

  I think the difference is in Grave Peril,  Harry's heart is stopped, so technically he is dead, does what he has to do as a ghost and then his heart is restarted.  Time frame is important, I'd have to go back but I think this took place over a couple of minutes time, longer and there is brain damage etc.

In Ghost Story, while he was in a deep coma, blood circulated by Bonnie, Alfred and the lsland nourishing him through an i.v. and Mab keeping things going instantly in ice cold water when he hit
it, Harry never was dead..   In fact it is implied at the very end of Ghost Story that Mab would have
revived him there and then, but Uriel had other plans, wanting to teach Harry a lesson.
page 474 Ghost Story  Mab tells him he fell into "cold and darkness, that is my domain."

Quote
"And now here you are."  Mab murmured.  "Oh the Quiet One angered us, sending your essence out unprotected.  Had he been incorrect, I would have been robbed of my knight, and the old monster his costodian."



  His soul was sent on it's walk about, vulnerable  because Harry wasn't dead.  If he were dead and a ghost, different rules would apply.   My question is did Uriel lie to Harry at the end of Ghost Story?  At the end just before he regained conscience Uriel said it was Harry's choice, yet when he chose to move on, he merely woke up from his coma.. So evidently he didn't have a choice.

43
DF Spoilers / Re: Souls and Ghosts.
« on: May 21, 2020, 03:58:16 AM »
Quote from: g33k on May 21, 2020, 02:45:06 AM
The distinction remains unclear, and it's obviously unclear even to many in the setting; even Morty seemed to think Harry was a more-or-less ordinary ghost.  But, as you say -- Jim says they are different.  So for the Dresdenverse, they... are.  That's just a fact.

And it isn't clear how and why that's important, but... evidently, it is important.

Presumably, we'll learn more in future books.

  Harry wasn't, because he was only mostly dead, as in slightly alive the whole time, Bob could tell the difference.  Sir Steward as far as we know is all dead, I doubt there is any loose change in his pockets.   

44
DF Spoilers / Re: Archive & Oblivion War -- who knows?
« on: May 21, 2020, 03:53:42 AM »
Quote from: Arjan on May 20, 2020, 09:05:02 PM
She needs to hire someone else. She has the knwoledge to make a good choice.

Somehow I doubt that it will be that simple.. :-\

45
DF Spoilers / Re: "Job placement" microfiction
« on: May 20, 2020, 08:45:09 PM »
Quote
Where's here? If it's who is senior out of Ramirez and Harry, then I agree. If it's why Ramirez is in charge of security instead of someone older, then it is relevant because there aren't a lot of older someone's to choose from.

I was talking about the fact that Luccio made a sword for Ramirez because he became a Warden some time before she had her body change, where as her body change happened right after Harry became a Warden so she wasn't able.  Don't think having or not having a sword is relevant to whom was put in charge.

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I think Peabody always or almost always used the ink to establish his mind control because of the scene alluded to. IMO, it is the light touch that was reserved for the "old coots," which doesn't include Luccio because the brittleness of mind is apparently a physical consequence of age and Luccio isn't even physically older than Harry.

According to Rashid, Peabody did a lot of messing with Luccio's mind, further he enhanced her existing propensity for violence to set her up to murder LaFortier.

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