Ghost Story--two things

[Dina]

I am not sure about all of that but I agree with Maggie knowing she was going to die as soon as Harry, who was protected, left her body. And I also agree she planned everything so he had a Starborn who was protected from Raith and her death curse would weakened Raith. I think Maggie trusted Harry would be protected and raised by Malcolm, and she trusted that would make Harry a good boy.
 I do not think Raith knew about Harry. He may have suspected there was a child (I do not think he knew the child was a male even) but he could not find Harry because he has been protected, and then, as Mira said, DuMorne and Eb where enough to hide him. Of course, this only works if Raith did not know that Maggie had married Malcolm Dresden. Because Harry is using his name and he is even in the book! So someone with Raith contacts could find him in no time.
I do not remember how Thomas found out that Harry was his brother.

Back to the curse, I agree with Mira, Raith did not know it was fueled by her bloodline. If he knew I think he would have managed to have Thomas killed, one way or another.

[Tinfoil hat]

.. If Harry was a dud, since Lea was the godmother, 

Woah  .... um . Lea as the godmother is the to ensure that Harry isn't a dud. Harry has to grow up able to defend himself from anything and Lea will make sure that he is able to hang with anyone.
Ps Harry claims she took advantage of him, claims she wishes to make him her dog but hold on. Harry learns to be cautious of fae deals from her. By the time Mab comes for him he is able to make a pretty good deal with her based on his experience with Lea.
O she tried to turn him into a dog. But did she not really, every interaction they have Lea comes up just short and at times gives harry insite in to something that ends up helping him.

[Mira]

Woah  .... um . Lea as the godmother is the to ensure that Harry isn't a dud. Harry has to grow up able to defend himself from anything and Lea will make sure that he is able to hang with anyone.

Did she?  Giving young Harry a Dumbo feather so he'd have confidence to go against Justin isn't exactly making sure he could hang with anyone.  Actually we don't have that scene on page when Harry actually finds out he has a fairy godmother.  Lea took no hand in his training like she did in Molly's case.  Did she just pop up after Harry managed to kill HWWB?  From the flashback in Ghost Story this happens after he escapes from Justin and HWWB turns up when he is at a gas station.. Seems to me that the Winter Court stayed pretty much hands off until they were sure young Harry had some skills.. Which goes back to the theory that it was Lea or Mab who had Malcolm murdered, because they wanted to limit his influence on Harry..  Further made sure that Eb wouldn't be able to track him down once he went into the foster system at the age of six.. This last makes no sense to me, and Eb has yet to answer those questions..  We also have no idea what Justin had in mind when he adopted Harry and Elaine.

So as we have learned over and over again,  bargaining with the Fae can be tricky..  If Mab though Lea promised to watch over Harry, Lea did... Lea checked in when he was in the orphanage as this nice lady who was interested.. That isn't preparing Harry for anything, Lea didn't do anything when Justin adopted him, guess trusting that Justin would give him a good basic wizard education, but no clue of or what Justin's agenda was... The long and the short?  From Mab's point of view, and thus Lea as well, Harry was watched over, so they kept up their end of the bargain, nothing was said about training, saving, guiding... If Harry turned out to be a dud, they still kept up their end of the bargain, they watched over him..  Since Harry wasn't, Lea steps in with a Dumbo feather after he defeats HWWB..  The Dumbo feather helped Harry with his confidence, but more importantly Lea made young inexperienced Harry commit to a bargain for that feather.  That bargain would chain him to the Winter Court until such a time when Mab would be ready take the bargain over from Lea and begin to pressure Harry into being her Winter Knight... Long term plan?? You bet, Harry had been roped into eventually becoming Mab's Knight since before he was born.. That's why I think he really gets pissed when he finds out the real details of the bargain his mother made with Lea and thus Mab.

[Lord Kinbote]

I haven't been following the ins and outs, the nuances, of this conversation but has anyone made the point that Maggie Sr. may have made a Rumpelstiltskin-like bargain with Lea/Mab?  Maybe Maggie Sr., knowing of the WC's involvement with the Outsiders and what their end-game was, bargained for help escaping and being protect from the White Court in exchange for help becoming impregnated and birthing Harry as a Starborn?  And maybe Maggie Sr.'s seemingly quick and short marriage to Harry's dad was all part of the bargain/plan?  And maybe the mother's death - and maybe the father's - is part and parcel of birthing a Starborn?  So maybe Harry has to come with grips with though loved by his parents, their union was more mercenary and wasn't 'just a girl standing in front of a boy, asking him to love her,' that he was intentionally created for a pre-planned purpose via a Maggie Sr./Mab scheme?  A lot of maybes but I think Jim wants something potentially soul crushing that Harry has to deal with and find some measure of peace with.

[Mira]

I haven't been following the ins and outs, the nuances, of this conversation but has anyone made the point that Maggie Sr. may have made a Rumpelstiltskin-like bargain with Lea/Mab?  Maybe Maggie Sr., knowing of the WC's involvement with the Outsiders and what their end-game was, bargained for help escaping and being protect from the White Court in exchange for help becoming impregnated and birthing Harry as a Starborn?  And maybe Maggie Sr.'s seemingly quick and short marriage to Harry's dad was all part of the bargain/plan?  And maybe the mother's death - and maybe the father's - is part and parcel of birthing a Starborn?  So maybe Harry has to come with grips with though loved by his parents, their union was more mercenary and wasn't 'just a girl standing in front of a boy, asking him to love her,' that he was intentionally created for a pre-planned purpose via a Maggie Sr./Mab scheme?  A lot of maybes but I think Jim wants something potentially soul crushing that Harry has to deal with and find some measure of peace with.

Somehow I don't think so if Malcolm was as good a man as everyone says he was.  I think I remember Harry talking about a photo that he had and lost in the fire of his mother pregnant with him and his father and how happy they looked.  If there were a lot of twists and turns I think it would all be on Winter's part.

[Dina]

Somehow I don't think so if Malcolm was as good a man as everyone says he was.  I think I remember Harry talking about a photo that he had and lost in the fire of his mother pregnant with him and his father and how happy they looked.  If there were a lot of twists and turns I think it would all be on Winter's part.

I agree. I can imagine Maggie wanting a Starborn, but I think she truly loved Malcom and Malcolm loved her.

[g33k]

I haven't been following the ins and outs, the nuances, of this conversation but has anyone made the point that Maggie Sr. may have made a Rumpelstiltskin-like bargain with Lea/Mab? ...

My own WAG is that Mab/Lea dropped a few hints/clues about the "Starborn" situation.

Enough for Maggie Sr. to want to learn more... eventually, to believe she "figured it out, despite the faerie obfuscation."  Mab's the kind of long-planning master-manipulator who could pull off exactly that sort of thing, with an eye towards getting herself a Starborn Winterknight.

... Maybe Maggie Sr., knowing of the WC's involvement with the Outsiders and what their end-game was, bargained for help escaping and being protect from the White Court in exchange for help becoming impregnated and birthing Harry as a Starborn?  And maybe Maggie Sr.'s seemingly quick and short marriage to Harry's dad was all part of the bargain/plan?  And maybe the mother's death - and maybe the father's - is part and parcel of birthing a Starborn?  So maybe Harry has to come with grips with though loved by his parents, their union was more mercenary and wasn't 'just a girl standing in front of a boy, asking him to love her,' that he was intentionally created for a pre-planned purpose via a Maggie Sr./Mab scheme?  A lot of maybes but I think Jim wants something potentially soul crushing that Harry has to deal with and find some measure of peace with. 

That's a LOT of maybe's.  I'm pretty sure they're mistaken, though...

I can't go trawling through the archives right now, but I'm pretty sure there's WoJ that Margaret meeting Malcom while on the run was unplanned/serendipitous (by which I suspect Jim may mean "it was actually Uriel's doing").

If Mab is a "master-manipulator," Uriel has the strands of fate at his fingertips.
 

[Mira]

If Mab is a "master-manipulator," Uriel has the strands of fate at his fingertips.
 

The interesting bit is what Chauncy told Harry way back in Full Moon, that his boss and company were ready to receive Margaret with open arms.. She was one of theirs, bad news, then something changed and she escaped their grasp.  That something was Malcolm, does a thing like meeting the right man at exactly the right time just happen by accident?

[Dina]

If it was Uriel, it was under the WG orders, I believe.

[Mira]

If it was Uriel, it was under the WG orders, I believe.

I agree. 

[Lord Kinbote]

Yes, a lot of maybes.

Add one more - maybe Malcom was fae and of Winter.  Is there anything definitive on how a changeling knows it's a changeling, especially if Mab doesn't want the changeling to know and has given a direct order for no one to tell?

[g33k]

... maybe Malcom was fae and of Winter.  Is there anything definitive on how a changeling knows it's a changeling, especially if Mab doesn't want the changeling to know and has given a direct order for no one to tell? 

Malcolm seems too warm & loving.  Winterfae aren't.

But Eb met him, and iirc testifies as to both his goodness and his being pure-Mundane.
 

[Mira]

Malcolm seems to warm & loving.  Winterfae aren't.

But Eb met him, and iirc testifies as to both his goodness and his being pure-Mundane.

I agree, I don't think that Malcolm had anything to do with the Winter Court.  It is my belief that Margaret met Malcolm, fell in love and left Lord Raith.  Not clear if she decided to conceive a star born with Malcolm and was pregnant before she left Lord Raith or after she left them.  One thing for sure, just the act of leaving him was a death sentence sooner or later.  I do believe however she was with child when she made a bargain with Mab and Lea for the protection of her child.  I don't think she would have done so otherwise.

[Lord Kinbote]

I agree, I don't think that Malcolm had anything to do with the Winter Court.  It is my belief that Margaret met Malcolm, fell in love and left Lord Raith.  Not clear if she decided to conceive a star born with Malcolm and was pregnant before she left Lord Raith or after she left them.  One thing for sure, just the act of leaving him was a death sentence sooner or later.  I do believe however she was with child when she made a bargain with Mab and Lea for the protection of her child.  I don't think she would have done so otherwise.

I think Dresden's conception and upbringing is far darker and far more intentional and engineered by multiple parties than this theory suggests.  For example, I think the bargain was made before Dresden was conceived; if Maggie, Sr. was pregnant with a human child, why would she then seek to bargain with the fae for protection of Dresden instead of going to her own father, Senior Counsel member and the Black Staff? I believe Butcher has been spreading crumbs while misdirecting us both with Dresden as unreliable/in denial narrator and with his WOJ.  I don't think that's a bad thing nor do I mean to suggest that Butcher should have done otherwise; it's just the path that Butcher has essentially had to take to avoid the story being unsurprising as its end builds, given the years/decades that he knew would be spent writing and releasing the overarching story.

But all will be revealed eventually, I suppose.  I just hope I'm around to read the last book of the final trilogy.

[g33k]

... It is my belief that Margaret met Malcolm, fell in love and left Lord Raith ...

I'm virtually certain I recall WoJ that Margaret met Malcolm _after_ leaving Raith.  I suspect that if she had fallen for Mal beforehand, she wouldn't even have left Raith (for fear of painting a target on Mal).

...  One thing for sure, just the act of leaving him was a death sentence sooner or later ...

If she wanted to remain the renegade / lone-wolf, you're right.  She's at least 2-3 magnitudes too weak to be safe from Raith's Outsider-fueled magic and the extra elements of White Court that Raith would be willing to employ (not to reveal his "shame" in having a mortal doe abandon him) .

If she could have gotten the White Council's protection, it'd have been a different story.

...   I do believe however she was with child when she made a bargain with Mab and Lea for the protection of her child.  I don't think she would have done so otherwise.

Absolutely she was with child, yes.
Furthermore, she was almost certainly aware it was a (potential) Starborn, and/or (via Salic Law) likely a powerful wizard; someone who would need protection during childhood.