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Messages - Mira

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DF Spoilers / Re: New Wag
« on: May 29, 2020, 03:51:58 AM »
Stalin could have changed.  It wouldn't have unfilled the graves he created with his victims.  For the purpose of the story I accept that she loved her son, but to quote Goodman Grey, she evidently was a piece of work.

But apparently she did redeem herself, she was well on the way to Hell according to Chauncy, "but the Dark Prince lost her in the end."  Chauncy also mentions "redemption," and the "unnatural death of both father and mother."  So Margaret apparently paid for her sins and redeemed herself, true, as far as the deaths she caused goes, you cannot unring that bell, but there is such a thing as forgiveness.

Nothing about his birth was random. Not the when or the why.  Malcolm may or may not be a scion.  But she was moving to a point.  She may have regretted doing to Harry whatever she did.  But the operative phrase is "she did".  So Harry was meant to be born on Halloween.  Margaret couldn't control conception but she could control time.  She could lay up in the Nevernever and come out when the time was at hand.

I doubt that Malcolm was a scion, Eb says he was merely a mortal vanilla human with one of the best souls he ever saw.  No, nothing was random about Harry's conception or his birth, that is why his parents feel guilty, Harry had no say in a lot of what is going to come down on him because of what he is.  Oh and conception can be controlled,  I imagine that Margaret was very in-tuned to her body and her cycle, she'd know exactly when she was fertile, and marking when the stars were aligned exactly for the conception of a star child to be possible.   

DF Spoilers / Re: New Wag
« on: May 28, 2020, 09:39:58 PM »
he WOJ that Harry would find out something that Lea was involved with and that they would fight over it. I'm just guessing at the context of the fight.
For me I'm just going on the fact that she was beginning to regret how her life turned out b/c it keeps her a tad more sympathetic than if she just got in too deep and had to run. That way she's already on that path when she meets Malcolm and that convinces her to stick with it.

I wasn't aware of that WOJ.  For me either way Margaret is a sympathetic character, it makes no difference whether she began to repent on her own or did after she meets Malcolm.  The point is she changed.

DF Spoilers / Re: What changes with Battleground
« on: May 28, 2020, 01:54:48 PM »
While it wouldn't surprise me if Murphy died, I don't see the Grim Reaper standing over her (and Eb's) shoulder(s) like everyone else seems to.

  I'd hate it if Eb died, his character still seems to serve it's purpose.  However if it is a step necessary for Harry to continue to evolve into what he needs to become to lead the fight or be a key component in the BAT, so be it.  Not sure if it has to happen just yet though.

I see Murphy dying because she has become awkward as a character for lack of a better word since
she left the police force.  The tough punk rocker look as head of the Justice League, seemed weird to me.  She may have worked out as a Holy Knight, but that concept got blown out of the water.  I don't see her as lover to Harry for very long either, for a number of reasons.  So best she die heroically, Harry can mourn her and it will be another step in his evolution..

DF Spoilers / Re: Unanswered questions in Dead Beat
« on: May 28, 2020, 03:47:31 AM »
1. Because Evil Bob was a part of Bob, just suppressed, I think Evil Bob was influencing Bob so that he could kill/whatever Harry.

   Yes, he is part of Bob that was totally twisted by Kemmler.  Bob forced himself to forget those memories, he was reluctant to bring them forth but Harry commanded him to.  Then after he was nearly killed, Harry commanded him to never obey any command to bring forth those memories again.

DF Spoilers / Re: New Wag
« on: May 28, 2020, 03:23:49 AM »
Whatever was done to Harry she felt guilt over it.
That one isn't hard to figure out, it is the same guilt that Malcolm felt.  They conceived a star child,  that put a huge burden on Harry before he even drew his first breath.  The fate of mankind could very well rest on his shoulders someday, and he didn't ask for any of it.  That is the kind of thing that makes a loving parent feel guilty.

DF Spoilers / Re: What changes with Battleground
« on: May 28, 2020, 12:12:44 AM »
@Mira: LOL at 3. Yeah, that'll do it. :)
But really, I think how severe her injury will be varies. I'm not sure how much help she'll be physical wise but that's not the only role she can have, or even the most important one. I'm not sure how much I like the idea of her injury just getting erased though.
With 1, the other option is that she has a lot of family members....
But a metaphorical death is just as interesting. How do you think that'll happen?
@g33k: Yeah true. I hope PT clears this one up.

Well, she could really blow it as far as Harry is concerned and is ostracized from his world.  Not sure how that could happen, but as we know Murphy has her own ideas about things and it results in disaster.   So while she could still be alive, cut off from Harry and all his friends, knowing they want nothing more to do with her, that would be her metaphorical funeral.

Like I said, it could be a miracle, but usually cutting a cast off a weight baring limb that isn't healed to charge off to join a physical fight doesn't end very well.  She dies.  Oh here is an idea, Harry's nightmare comes true, Murphy accepts a coin to heal her knee so she can save Harry.. She does, but she loses because she is now a Denarian, now there is her metaphorical funeral.

DF Spoilers / Re: New Wag
« on: May 27, 2020, 10:09:45 PM »
@Mira: I'm thinking that Margaret was starting to regret how her life turned out before she met Malcolm and wanted out but needed some type of plan for it. Then she met Malcolm and fell for him.
Yeah that 'plan' was never really elaborated on, but I could very well be wrong.
I think we're in agreement about the ways of killing Malcolm are many. :). (I shouldn't put a smile-y there, he dies after all, lol)
@g33k: Better show that thread to Harry, lol.

  However there is no evidence that Margaret regretted her life before she met Malcolm.  But you could be right, the way it is written in Blood Rites is a bit ambitious.  Eb says she turned away from her old life, Justin etc, was on the run for a couple of years, Wardens had orders to arrest her on sight for immediate trial and execution, Eb also had orders but he never said what they were.. Harry asks what happened?  Eb simply answers that she met Malcolm and what a good soul he had. 

However it isn't clear why she began to run,  did she truly begin to regret?  Or was the heat getting too great and she had to get out of the kitchen?  Did meeting Malcolm begin her transformation or merely finish a job well on it's way?

DF Spoilers / Re: Unanswered questions in Dead Beat
« on: May 27, 2020, 10:02:03 PM »
    Why does Bob leave the skull in the beginning of the book to talk to Harry about Kemmler? Harry himself notes that the spirit had never asked to leave the skull for just a conversation before - this is before Harry forces him to remember his time with Kemmler & become Evil Bob.
If I remember correctly it has to do with the fact that Bob had totally blocked out his time with Kemmler.    When Harry ordered him to recall everything, that triggers the appearance of  Evil Bob who then nearly kills Harry.

DF Spoilers / Re: New Wag
« on: May 27, 2020, 09:15:36 PM »
Not necessarily:
  • Margaret could easily have grabbed a fair bit of cash and/or other resources, in departing from Papa's.
  • As an experienced and powerful WC practitioner, she may well have had accounts she had set up in case she needed resources.
  • Last but not least, the perennial "how do wizards earn money" thread(s) give us lots of options whereby Margaret could have easily earned plenty to live on.
But it's strongly implied that Malcom was pretty poor, as Harry was growing up.  So all of Margaret's financial contributions -- if any -- were on an ad-hoc basis, rather than investments/accounts that could be used on an ongoing basis.

Maybe, but she may have lost all her finances when she gave up her old life.  Also I am willing to bet
that Malcolm is who Harry gets his old fashioned ideas about how to treat women from.  Malcolm would want to be the bread winner..  Not only that, but it sounds like Margaret wasn't pardoned by the White Council, so she'd have to keep a pretty low profile.

DF Spoilers / Re: What changes with Battleground
« on: May 27, 2020, 09:09:38 PM »
I still don't think Murphy will die. I think she'll team up w/ Tilly at some point instead.

 Murphy is being set up to leave this mortal plane in my opinion..   

1]  Unless it was a very bad joke, Jim mentions writing her "funeral" a while back.  Now
funeral could have two meanings, a] she makes a very bad decision and the results are
metaphorically her funeral.. b] the literal, she is killed and it is her funeral. c] or he was
just pulling our collective legs..

2] Her character hasn't really "clicked" since she left the police force, Murphy is a professional
cop like her father, always was and always will be.   The latest versions of her come up lacking,  maybe she will end up partner to agent Tilly, but that seems off as well.

3] Lover of Harry, a real sentence of death...  Not to mention unless she is cured by a miracle, a
severely injured knee that requires a cast isn't going to work very well in a serious fight.  Oh yeah, she can still shoot, but she still has to get to the fight, then she has to set herself to best advantage, and someone had to help her get into position.  Harry is going to be very busy, so who is going to do it?  So I think she is going to do something really stupid, really heroic to save Harry, she will succeed, but she is going to die doing it.. 

DF Spoilers / Re: New Wag
« on: May 27, 2020, 08:49:39 PM »
The 'plan' they keep talking about is from 'Changes' IIRC. Arianna, Lord Raith, Margaret, and Eb were all at a dinner party that was hosted by Lord Raith. Margaret and Eb got into an argument and from there, Arianna realized that they were related b/c they fought like family. I don't think the books ever got more specific about what said plan was but I bet it had to do w/ running a con on the council, as a way to get them to change their laws. Eb disagreed and it might be that b/c of that, it fell through.

I think I may have misunderstood, because the plan I was thinking about was the plan to give birth to a star born. 

don't really like the idea of Malcolm being anything other than a stage magician who is interested in 'actual' magic. But I do think that Margaret planned on having a starborn before she met Malcolm, only to fall in love w/ him once she realized what a kind person he was.
I doubt it because Margaret didn't begin to change until she met Malcolm and fell in love with him. 
Maybe they went to DC to meet Morgan?  They could have met under a flag of truce, and b/c she was pregnant, Morgan decided to hear her out. From there they worked out a deal. The photo could be the few times Margaret steps out of Winter to go do something. So maybe she wasn't quite living w/ Malcolm at the time or he lived w/ her?

Perhaps, though I believe that she was married to Malcolm and they lived lovingly together.  However as a professional magician, even a mediocre one, he had to be on the road a lot to make a living for her and the child.
The only thing is, that if Malcolm and Margaret were in love, then Lara or any other WCV wouldn't be able to feed from him. Though Lara could use a catspaw to assassinate him, so the point still stands. I like this idea a lot.
No, but that doesn't leave out other ways of murdering someone.. Lord Raith didn't kill Margaret by feeding upon her.
Malcolm may be on the side of the angels after he met Margaret, b/c Uriel saw an opportunity to help bring Harry into existence.  Lea putting a hit on Malcolm could be what supposedly makes her come into conflict w/ Harry down the line, per WOJ.

What is that WOJ exactly?  Just because killing Malcolm and promising to protect Harry seem to contradict each other.

DF Spoilers / Re: New Wag
« on: May 27, 2020, 06:26:00 PM »
That's your WAG, I sit on mine.  The age is a throw away other then to suggest that whatever Maggie had been doing all her life it must have been done somewhere where time  ran slow while  it ran fast in the mortal world. Margaret looked young and she captured Malcolm's heart. Or that Malcolm was a scion and he was as old as her.

I think that is partly true, but also consider that Harry at nearly forty is still considered a mere youth by many.  I seem to remember that a wizard is considered in his or her prime at around 150 so yes,
I can see Margaret, if she hadn't suffered any injuries or illness looking a healthy young thirty something to Malcolm even if she was 170 give or take.


What I'm seeking to do is to connect a lot of dots that Jim has laid out.  There is the dinner with Eb and Margaret's friends, her escape, where Malcolm came into a picture, Harry's conception, the curse on Raith, The connection to Morgan, her death and finally Malcolm's death.  And a silly image of Margaret with some type of curse ready to kill her frolicking at the Lincoln Monument while nine months

From the sound of those dinners, or as described, it sounds like Lord Raith was also present at them.  So hardly a time for planning.   Also given Eb's information from Blood Rites, Malcolm came into the picture before she left Raith.  Also according to Eb in Blood Rites the Wardens were ordered to arrest her on sight, to be almost instantly tried and executed.  So the story told about Morgan, a dedicated
Warden if there ever was one is very odd indeed.  His even asking questions first and not arresting later doesn't seem to fit at all, nor his promises to look after her baby.   It could be that Morgan couldn't stomach a pregnant woman losing her head, though I know the micro story doesn't say anything about that.  Or by the time Morgan caught up with her in D.C. she had changed so radically he decided to listen to what she had to say.  In his journal though, Morgan doesn't say anything about when he talked to Margaret or if it was in D.C., only that he promised to protect her son.

Why was she in D.C.?   Maybe because she was happy, in love, pregnant, and thought she was safe, and they were just out to have a good time.  I don't think she was trying to sell Eb on any plan, where is that written?

DF Spoilers / Re: New Wag
« on: May 27, 2020, 03:32:05 PM »
I have never read about a photograph, from the timeline.Eb may have soul gazed him, but the question is, when?

Margaret is a busy little honey bee in her last days. She ditches Papa Raith, wires Thomas as a doomsday device, runs down a husband, gets pregnant, goes to DC, meets Morgan and has nine months of married bliss. All before dying in the delivery room.  One presumes that she performed some kind of service either in the former here and now or prior to the events, with Lea.  She's a little energizer bunny.  A one hundred and seventy year old energizer bunny.  I'm trying to connect all of those dots.

   Since she was still able to conceive children, apparently 170 years for a wizard isn't that old in vanilla human terms, even if say she was the equivalent of 45 vanilla years.  She also spent quite a bit of those years in the Nevernever, that time may have also affected the physical aging process. 

Perhaps when Eb first met Malcolm, which is very plausible, after all here is this ordinary vanilla human, his daughter falls in love with him and is trying to change her ways.  He'd want to know just who in the hell this person was, so yeah, first meeting, soul gaze.   It is significant and good evidence that he says it is " as good a soul like few I've ever seen."  He doesn't talk man, he talks soul and no doubt Eb has soul gazed and seen a lot of souls in his lifetime. 

I have never read about a photograph, from the timeline.

I am thinking it was Changes after his apartment burned, that Harry talks about the photo.  But he
talks about a photo of them in Washington D.C. and she is pregnant and happy.

Margaret is a busy little honey bee in her last days. She ditches Papa Raith, wires Thomas as a doomsday device, runs down a husband, gets pregnant, goes to DC, meets Morgan and has nine months of married bliss. All before dying in the delivery room.  One presumes that she performed some kind of service either in the former here and now or prior to the events, with Lea.  She's a little energizer bunny.  A one hundred and seventy year old energizer bunny.  I'm trying to connect all of those dots.

One doesn't "run down a husband,"  that implies something of convenience, cold and calculated.  Eb in Blood Rites is very clear on that, she fell in love with a vanilla mortal of no consequences except
he had a very good soul, that influence changed her.  I'm thinking the changes were significant before she ran into Morgan, and that is why he spared her in the first place. 

Here is the order I think things happened..

1] Margaret meets Malcolm, where or why, unknown, she instantly falls in love with him.  Now
was that the result of an inadvertent soul gaze?  Who knows, but meeting him changes her perception about humanity.  She begins to think it might be worth saving after all.  She becomes a better person for Malcolm, and he falls in love with her.  This gives her the strength to leave Raith and her son, little Thomas.  Why leave her baby?  Perhaps she felt he was lost to the Hunger at some point, or if she took him Raith would never leave them alone. 
2]  She introduces him to her father, who also soul gazes him.  Tells her what he sees, very much the same as what she sees, then she begins to form her plan.  Somehow I doubt that she let Eb in on it, does Eb even know at this point that Harry is a star child?

3] She is happy with Malcolm which cements her plans, she is worried about Raith though, so she lets the Winter Court in on her plans,  a bargain is struck and Lea is named the godmother of the child that Margaret will conceive.   She gets pregnant, her and Malcolm visit D.C., there she meets Morgan, hell, he may be the one that took the photo, and asks him to also watch over the baby.. 
We know the rest.   

DF Spoilers / Re: New Wag
« on: May 27, 2020, 04:09:18 AM »
Very tenuously supported.  Two points.  First Eb had met Malcolm, says he was gentle.  And he attended a meeting with Margaret discussing a plan.  Margaret breaks with Raith and bails, two years or so she has Harry and dies.  Eb never says where he saw Malcolm and it's never revealed how Margaret broke away.

Slight correction,  I have a hunch that Eb had soul gazed Malcolm.  Because he doesn't say that he was gentle, he says of him, "But a man with a good soullike few I've ever seen."


Pregnant and having to scoot, she leaves Thomas but not before connecting Thomas and an unborn Harry so that when she throws her death curse it can be powered by them instead of her life force.  She goes into deep Winter under Lea's protection and loses a year while Harry comes to term.  And leaves Winter via a portal in the Lincoln Monument. She gets the protection for Harry by telling Lea who has the Atheme.  Lea sells out Malcolm to the Whites when Harry is six.  And just to make it a real pot boiler, Lara does the deed and leaves Malcolm smiling.

I seem to remember a passage, but I cannot remember the book, where Harry talks about the one photo or one of the few photos he has of him mom, maybe his mom and dad together, and she is happy and very pregnant.   If I didn't dream that, I don't think things went down as you theorize.


The fact that we find Murphys Dad in the Chicago in Between Purgatory squad is an even bigger hint. Captain Murphy insists on no messages from beyond the grave to his daughter. Presumably malcolm has similar rules he has to follow.

But that might be just a personal thing with Captain Murphy and not a general rule.

"So." I said "Why heaven I dreamed about you before"
"Because I wasn't allowed to contact you before" my father said easily "not until others had crossed the line"

It is possible that because Harry is a starborn, he isn't allowed to be overly influenced until he
figures some things out for himself.  Malcolm clearly knows what he is because in the same passage he hints that what he and his mother did in conceiving him was unfair, Margaret hints at the same thing.

DF Spoilers / Re: Is Harry Senior Council Level?
« on: May 26, 2020, 05:54:57 PM »
Political acumen and connections - no and not exactly.

Yes, he does actually, to both..  He showed political acumen when he bested the Merlin in a debate
at Molly's trial, though he also made an enemy there.  And he does have connections both on the Senior Council and outside of it, powerful ones.

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