Why do you think Murphy is safe until "Body Slam"?   Do you have inside information?  Though I
tend to agree our collective legs were being pulled by Jim in regards to writing about her funeral...

[quote
And to relate this back to what I was originally saying: rescuing Marcone would certainly be acting in such a way as to help people do the right thing/reduce the chances of them doing the Wrong thing. It would prevent Marcone from being tortured into taking up a coin, would prevent the Denarians from torturing Marcone, would give the Knights a chance to attempt to convince the Denarians they encountered to give up their coins, would prevent the stability Marcone imposed on the Chicago criminal underworld from falling apart (it's been pointed out that it is far easier for Hell to collect souls when there's mass chaos and destruction), and would prevent Harry lying to Luccio to get the White Council's help (as has been pointed out to me on another thread, Michael quite sincerely believes lying to be Wrong).
[/quote]

Except Marcone isn't trying to redeem himself in any way, at least not so far..  In my opinion making the trains run on time for the criminal world is hardly doing a service for good...

Yup, Harry lied, which is a sin, he is human..  Michael would also point out that he did it to save a child's life.

"Acting in such a way as to create a climate which encourages/allows people to do the right thing" seems to be a good summary of the Knights' job. Whether they judge people or not seems immaterial to that.

But it isn't...  They will let a murder go in the case of Cassius, free to murder  again or not, to go unpunished, because it isn't their place to judge him, not their job to try and stop him..  Murphy was unwilling to follow that rule, if she believes someone is guilty, she will judge them so, and either punish them herself or take them somewhere where they can be punished..  Nic knew that that is why he elaborately arranged the fiasco in front of Michael's house in Skin Game then go through the motions of surrender to Murphy, who in turn, judge, tried to punish, and broke a Holy Sword... 

But back to Cassius, in his heart he is a bad guy, he had no intention of changing who he is, he gave up his coin only because he didn't want to be executed by either Michael or Sanya... He didn't stop doing bad things, he wanted another coin so he could do them even better, that is why he attacked Harry and tortured him,  he thought that Harry had taken up Lasciel's coin and he wanted it for himself..  So how did that work out for him and the world around him? 

The original point, the Knight's job is to gather up the coins of the Fallen, to free the souls they enthrall..  Once free, those souls can either go about the business of redeeming themselves, or continue the same corrupt life they lived before minus the aid of the coin, it's pot luck really... Most
of the souls who chose to take up a coin were bad in the first place, that is why they were tempted to do it..  Surrendering a coin to save their own life, doesn't change their hearts...  On the other hand  Sanya did give up his coin because he became disgusted with what he was doing what the coin was helping him to do, he rejected it... That is so rare that Heaven granted him a Holy Sword..

No one other than you can save your soul.

   Basically, that is what the point.   If I remember correctly that Harry argues that Michael or Sanya should kill Cassius after he surrendered and gave up his coin because Cassius is a killer and worse..  Michael says and Sanya agrees that it isn't for them to judge Cassius and that he was free now for the rest of his life to redeem himself or not....

1+1+2+1
1121
Nov 21st? Maybe?

  His lottery pick?

iirc it was mentioned in a WoJ that the bodies were damaged enough that the Council couldn't tell if they were dead before or after Harry's little outburst, and begrudgingly had to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Perhaps, in the book I think it was Michael who was of the opinion they were already dead.  I'd
have to go back and try to find the exact quote..  That isn't to say that he couldn't be mistaken, but being Michael he would be sincere in his belief and assurance.

I'm not sure how the fact that Shiro was dying of cancer has an impact on the Knights' willingness to rescue people.

Shiro took Harry's place for Nic to torture and then infect with the plague...  Harry felt guilty about that so before any of that even began, Shiro wrote a letter along with his diagnosis saying that he was dying anyway...  Shiro was willing to rescue Harry, but there was a special reason for him doing it..  The fact that he was dying anyway altered a bit his sacrifice for Harry...

Rescuing Ivy wasn't all that important,  keeping the Archive out of Denarian hands is another matter all together..   

It seems pretty clear to me in this that Michael refuses to hunt down the Denarians (as opposed to agreeing, but qualifying it by saying that he's not giving up on the Knights' "redemption first" policy, and that as such he's not going to go straight to trying to kill them) even after it is pointed out to him that they have kidnapped Marcone and are planning to force him to take up a coin.

It is the hardest thing to grasp and why not everyone is cut out to be a Holy Knight.  Yes, they fight evil, yes, they will kill a Denarian if they have to, but they do not go out on seek and destroy missions..   Sanya is clearly willing to, but his background is a bit different than Michael's.  Michael has to remind them what their mission as Knights is.

"Agreed," Sanya said firmly. "Take the initiative. Find him and hit the snake before he can coil to strike."

Michael shook his head. "Brother, you forget our purpose. We are not given our power so that we can strike down our enemies, no matter how much they might deserve it. Our purpose is to rescue the poor souls trapped by the Fallen."

Free will still applies,  Michael isn't going to try and rescue Marcone to preventhim from taking up a coin..  Actually I don't know if it has been established that one can be forced to do that.. But if Marcone were to take up a coin, then Michael would do everything he could to get him to give it up.

I'm so very, very sorry.  It always hurts, but it's so worth it, for the time we have with them.



I'm looking at the likelihood myself... for TWO dogs, actually.  :-(

I'm so sorry....   There are a number of factors that made this decision very,very hard... Not that it is ever easy.