Okay early this morning I was replying to a post in the Contagion thread.  One of the things we are debating there is when exactly was Justine infected?  In the course of that one question came to my mind, which led to another and I decided it really needed it's own thread.
 
  In Blood Rites Thomas is severely injured, to save his life Justine either volunteers or is sent to be fed upon most likely until death to save Thomas by Lord Raith.  Honestly I can't remember if she volunteered to sacrifice herself of Lord Raith volunteered her.  Anyway out of love we are led to believe Thomas risked not recovering because he stopped himself feeding on her in time to save her.  Her hair turned snow white, and she became Lara's secretary and a bit of a spy for Harry.  First question, were they or weren't they in true love at that time?  Because if they were, all Justine would have done was burn Thomas up.  And actually if he suspected it, and as we know wanted to get rid of his son, that might be why Lord Raith sent Justine to him. 

Which leads to the second part, how is it that Justine survived?

I don't know if the theory is correct, but any rate the feeding until death to heal him must be the exception to the rule, or Thomas should have burned up.  Or what if there never was true love between Justine and Thomas?  What if Nemesis can fake true love?  Thus the burning reaction can be turned off or on, at will?  In normal times when Thomas is merely trying to snuggle her, he gets burnt.. Off, when Thomas was feeding on her in Blood Rites to save his life.  In addition, Nemesis was strong enough to withstand any amount of feeding so it only seemed as if Thomas quit feeding out of love for her before she died from it.

If the above is true, it would explain a lot of things, it would give Nemesis a spy in Lara's inner circle. Also a double agent or you might say triple agent, because we know that Justine was passing information she learned as Lara's secretary to Harry, but at the same time Nemesis could be learning information from Harry and passing it on.. Thomas already totally potty over Justine would be fooled by the "faked" true love reaction from contact with her, the stage is set for ultimately happened in Peace Talks.

One last point, interesting don't you think that Justine waits until "Ghost Story," when supposedly star born with power against Outsiders, Harry is dead, to have the lesbian sex which allowed her to have intercourse with Thomas which led to her getting pregnant?   Why didn't she think of that before?  Why wait until Harry is "dead" and Thomas is at his most vulnerable ebb?

Harry wasn't going to go to that party... But then the screw up and he lost the Sword in a silly attempt to kill Lea with it.  So he and Michael set off to try to recover it at the party..

Which was way complicated by his discovery that Susan had crashed the party, which was an added distraction.  It almost seems like another hand was at work here... Think about it, Harry, knowing it  bode no good for him to go, had no intention of going to that party.  If he hadn't lost the Sword, he never would have gone to the Party with Michael, which set off a whole list of things..  Interesting don't you think that after when all the dust has settled, I think it was Justine, turns up at his place with the returned Sword, totally unharmed.  1] Harry had no intention of going to that party.  Would he have figured out that Susan and stole and forged a copy in time to go and save her?  2] Even if he did find out in time and went, without the Sword being there, there would have been no attempted sacrifice with it, which is what really set things off... 

Susan is a distraction in all of this, the shiny object that we all follow.. But in the order of events at that party, she is of no consequence.  Yeah, I know she gets half turned, her and Harry have sex, little Maggie is the result, which leads to the downfall of the Red Court.. Important, but....

What is important?  Harry panics and makes that silly attempt to kill Lea with Michael's Sword.. It doesn't allow Itself to be misused, but instead of shattering,[as the Sword of Faith did when Murphy misused it,]  if merely falls out of his hands and Lea grabs it... Convenient, don't you think?  Yes, Murphy was an ex-Holy Knight, Harry, just a punk wizard, might have made the difference between shattering and not, but still..  Suddenly Lea has something to present or trade at the party.. Harry and Michael know that has to be prevented so they go to the party.. Events unfold, Lea is presented with the infected Knife, an attempted sacrifice of an innocent with the Sword, which really triggered the chaos.  Important thing to remember without the Sword falling into Lea's hands and going to the party, Harry wouldn't have gone to that party, and would have remained ignorant of a lot of things that become vital that he know for the rest of the series..  What is even more interesting, for all the events that should have shattered or altered it, in the end the Sword is returned to Harry's place and thus to Michael, totally unharmed...  It is almost like the Sword had a mind of it's own, and it does, if one thinks about an angel possessing it..  Another Hand needed for Harry to be at the party, to get vital information for the events to come, and manipulated him..

   In White Night just before she decides to sacrifice herself, Lash begins to tell Harry why he
was conceived.  But there is no time to answer Harry's questions, however she does promise
to answer them later.  However later never happens, to save Harry's sanity and life, she sacrifices herself.  Odd moment happens later after it was all over, Harry is playing his guitar, he believes Lash is gone and he hears a faint whisper..

Everything I can, dear host.

It freaks him out he goes to the basement, digs up the coin, and calls Father Forthill to pick it up.  He was afraid he'd have to go through the whole thing again with another form of the Shadow of Lasciel, or Lasciel, herself?  Most likely, because the assumption is he thought he was hearing Lash or Lasciel.  So was it a message from Lash?  One would think that it couldn't be Bonea because now she functions like a toddler..  However is it a hint that all the information Lash had regarding Harry has been passed on to their daughter, and at some point Bonea will tell Harry everything surrounding his birth, the how, the why, his mother and father's decision to conceive him.  Plus all the other questions, what he was meant to be, why this information has been kept from him by the Council, what Justin's real goal was when he adopted him and Elaine.. Why he tried to enthrall him, where do the Outsiders fit in?  Because it is hinted from the Ghost Story flashbacks from what HWWB said, that Harry wasn't just conceived to fight Outsiders, but somewhere their plan or Justin's plan went astray... Oh crap, yet another question, perhaps for another thread...

  Reading Yuillegan's excellent post, I ask the question for all the talk of parallels between Harry and Kemmler, what about Kemmler and Cowl?  Until Cowl came along Harry was pretty ignorant on the subject of Kemmler other than he knew that Justin and other Wardens took him down, and that Justin managed to steal Bob out from under the noses of the other Wardens.  We know that Justin had to have put some controls on that original Bob, or Evil Bob, but was using him towards an unknown goal, which also included Elaine and Harry as enforcers and possible star born candidates.  We know that Dead Beat was all about "the book," necromancy and the Dark Hallow, Kemmler had it, but did he write it?  I don't think that question is known.. Mavra knew of the book, and Cowl knew of the book, Lasciel/Sheila knew of it and helped maneuver Harry into getting it and translating it for him.. I'd wager that there are other forces at work as well, why else would Gard be so easily talked out of taking Harry when the Corpsetaker had him down?   

Cowl may have thought Kemmler was mad, but who tried to actually perform Dark Hallow?  It wasn't Kemmler.. So who was/is more dangerous?  Kemmler or Cowl?  Is Cowl yet another star born? They seem to be popping up all over the place these days, why else did he think he could pull it off?  Is that what Mavra is after?  Does she want godhood or was she getting it for Drakul?  Raising the dead on mass is a good trick, but the Black Court doesn't need the book for that.

Was Kemmler originally a failed experiment on the part of the Senior Council?  In other words was he selectively bred by the Council as a star born to be their ultimate enforcer?  Unlike Harry,  from birth he was aware of why he was bred, but in the end that knowledge either drove him mad, or into thinking since he had godlike powers he really didn't need to play the enforcer for the Council. They had to play by his rules, so they took him down..  That is why they kept all knowledge of their second breeding experiment from Harry, better control... However it was doomed to fail as well because Margaret threw a monkey wrench into it when she fell in love with Malcolm.. Also other events orchestrated by others, motives unknown, that are still playing out on the great chess board.

Cowl knew of the Council's eugenics experiments, but not the details of Harry's birth.. He knows what Harry is supposed to be, that is why he said what he did in their first meeting.  HWWB knows about the eugenics experiments as did Justin, but not the impact of "the Malcolm factor."  Margaret knew from the onset that Council was corrupt and rebelled against it in every way she could.  It wasn't until she met and fell in love with Malcolm did she think of a better way to fight the system.. Use this good soul in a little eugenic experiment of her own, the result was Harry. 

What doesn't make sense, is it is clear from Morgan's journal, Peace Talks, and Battle Ground, that the Senior Council is well aware that Harry is a star born.  So was he the product of their second experiment? The facts about it are all hush,hush, and they have or had their own plans on how to use Harry or to make sure they would be able to use him, when the time comes.. Okay, but how is it they used a woman, accused warlock, who supposedly was under a kill on sight order to be the mother?  Was a deal struck with Eb?  But if it was, why do so many seem to be ignorant that Eb is Margaret's father and Harry's grandfather?  How was Margaret able to come forward for this plea deal?  Agreeing to give birth to a star born for the Council?  And if she did,how is it that they allowed her to pick the father? Or was she able to pull a fast one on them with the aid of the likes of Rashid, and the Winter Court? In the process also pulled a fast one on the Winter Court?  She got her baby protected, Mab got ultimately the Winter Knight she wants, but not quite, "the Malcolm Factor" is still at play...  Is Harry merely a pawn?  Star born, but still a pawn in somebody's game, or will he up end the whole thing in the end? If he does, was that all part of the original plan?

  Okay,this thought hit me while reading Groinkick's post about Marcone in the time traveling thread.
On one hand not sure if it is a deep enough thought to warrant it's own thread, but on the other it would have totally hijacked the other topic, so here goes.

I guess desperate times call for desperate measures and power corrupts even the already corrupted, but it is weird that Marcone would take up a coin.  The Denarians did a number on him on Demonreach back in Small Favor.. So much so that he and Mab planned and got revenge on Nic and company in Skin Game..  So now they kiss and make up?  Or are there going to be unforeseen consequences down the road?  At the moment Namhiel is glad to be back in business with a ruthless intelligent host, and Marcone was happy to save Chicago and getting more power, but who is using whom and what is the ultimate goal?

  It occurred to me while I was posting in the "Balance" thread and I started to write it.  But then I
realized it may deserve a thread of it's own since if anyone cares to expand it send the thread sideways.. Anyway, here goes;

Here is the thought I just had, "could a coin possession go wrong?"  I mean, say Rudolph did pick up a coin, but because of his mental/emotional make up instead of making him a useful Denarian, it just drives him insane and increasingly paranoid?  Or more likely, say he merely came in contact with a coin like Harry did?  Being a wizard and finally set straight by Butters that Sheila wasn't there, Harry figured it out and coped with the whispers in his head.  But there is no Butters to tip Rudolph off, and I doubt he believes in the existence of of fallen angels entrapped in coins that can then posses the human that they come in contact with.  So here he is, hearing voices and increasingly paranoid, and for whatever reason the shadow of the fallen holding the coin cannot get through.  It could maybe influence him to blow Murphy away, but that is about it.  Does anyone else think this is possible?

  In Battle Ground Harry was able to do something the most powerful wizards on the planet cannot  do.  Raise a loyal army, that is why they freaked when Harry was able to call the Little Folk to his aid, and even if it was under Mab's power blanket, he was able to rally hundreds of Chicago vanilla citizens to his side to fight the Fomor and the Titian, he also was able to rally the Paranet.  That scares the hell out of them, in the war against the Red Court, yes, there was a wizard army, some cooperation from the Winter Court, but no one outside of that.  Most wizards are solo creatures, Christos, Eb, and Listens to Wind did do their part in the battle, but they couldn't call anyone/followers to their side to sacrifice and fight.  The only other wizard I can think of that had/has disciples/followers on that level, was Kemmler.  And they also know by now that Harry possesses the Spear of Destiny and all that goes with that.  No wonder Harry has them wetting their robes.

  In Small Favor when I was looking for references to Chandler I came across something curious. A bunch of Denarians had gotten the chop and Harry had collected the coins in his Crown Royal sack, Namshiel picked his pocket..  Here is what Harry says page 380

There's nothing like getting taken with an old trick, I guess.  But that meant that Namshiel had been working together with someone else--someone else who had been hanging around to collect the coins after he'd taken them from my pocket and tossed them off to the side in the confusion.

So rereading, when Marcone is freed, he appears hardly worse for wear, he doesn't even appear overly upset.  It really doesn't go into too much detail of how he got off the island once freed.  Or I missed it in my skimming... But one has to ask, how did Marcone get a hold of Namshiel's coin to begin with?  Had some deal been worked out between Nic and Marcone?  His kidnapping was a set up, Nic hoped to gain the Sword of Faith and break it, and Marcone would get to bank any coins for future use?  Which makes some kind of crazy weird sense if you consider Skin Game..  Supposedly Marcone,Mab, and Hades set Nic up to get revenge for Marcone's kidnapping.. But what if it was a double, double, cross?  Nic and Marcone were really setting Mab up, use her Winter Knight to steal the Artifacts, because their object was more than the Grail.  But they were double, double, double crossed by Harry who stole them and took them to Demonreach, though he did give the Grail to Nic as bargained for.  So Marcone, in a bigger future power grab, takes up Namshiel's coin.  Question, does he still have the rest of those coins backed somewhere?  But stay tuned sports fans, this is what Marcone might have been thinking when he said he was learning to think long term..

_{*edited for spoiler in title. ~Blaze}