Would Cowl after successful Darkhallow been as strong as Ethniu?

[The_Sibelis]

Didn't read the whole thread so maybe this has been said, but Eb at least also took a blast from the Eye. He had to draw upon the mantle attached to the blackstaff to redirect it iirc.

[TheCuriousFan]

Didn't read the whole thread so maybe this has been said, but Eb at least also took a blast from the Eye. He had to draw upon the mantle attached to the blackstaff to redirect it iirc.

No he took part of a blast from Gungnir and redirected it.

[The_Sibelis]

No he took part of a blast from Gungnir and redirected it.

🤔 you sure about that? I remember ethniu trying to blast him and Ivy with the eye during the main showdown. When I say 'redirected' it might be calling upon the wrong scene. More of a sloughing.

[K.L.O.E.]

🤔 you sure about that? I remember ethniu trying to blast him and Ivy with the eye during the main showdown. When I say 'redirected' it might be calling upon the wrong scene. More of a sloughing.

By the time the Mortals got involved Titania had already redirected the eye and turned the snowstorm into a rainstorm which showered away the ritual emotion that powered the eye. Ethniu then kicked Titania, the Erlking, and Odin's asses and stole gugnir from Odin. Eb took a lightning blast and did the same thing Yoda did to Palpatine in Revenge of the Sith (I'm almost certain it was meant as a direct reference).

As far as victims for the Stone Table go: where's Freya? How is the Goddess of Witchcraft, War, Weddings, and Strategy not pitching in to help fight the Outsiders? Maybe she's dead? (I'd love to be wrong about this but I have a sinking feeling that whatever fueled the Fae Courts involved a male God sacrificing a Goddess to mirror Harry sacrificing Susan)

[The_Sibelis]

Ahh, right you are. It was gungir she used.
Fed to the table? Well, we ARE missing one of the three fates, and Mab and Titania do tend to mirror some of her aspects. Though, I don't think they got the whole thing.

[Mira]

By the time the Mortals got involved Titania had already redirected the eye and turned the snowstorm into a rainstorm which showered away the ritual emotion that powered the eye. Ethniu then kicked Titania, the Erlking, and Odin's asses and stole gugnir from Odin. Eb took a lightning blast and did the same thing Yoda did to Palpatine in Revenge of the Sith (I'm almost certain it was meant as a direct reference).

Ethniu didn't really kick their asses, she just thought she did.  They needed her to think that so they could get close enough to fight her.  Odin let her take Gungnir from him, then when she tried to use it, he turned it against her with a blast to the face which enabled Lara to give her a kick to the back of the head to dislodge the Eye, then weakened and without her main weapon, Harry with Marcone/Namshiel's help come in on clean up and ship her to Demonreach.

[K.L.O.E.]

Ethniu didn't really kick their asses, she just thought she did.  They needed her to think that so they could get close enough to fight her.  Odin let her take Gungnir from him, then when she tried to use it, he turned it against her with a blast to the face which enabled Lara to give her a kick to the back of the head to dislodge the Eye, then weakened and without her main weapon, Harry with Marcone/Namshiel's help come in on clean up and ship her to Demonreach.

Being reduced to a smoldering corpse or planted like a vegetable is a pretty thorough ass kicking. Odin knew he was going to lose so he took advantage of it by setting up the Gungnir trap. I mean they clearly weren't fighting to lose as no-one knew Namshiel was on the field. Beyond Namshiel the only divine power available was the Knights and the respective gods know to not get in the way when they are on the clock so they must have believed Harry would find Butters and Sanya. Unless Harry was supposed to stab Ethniu with the Spear but that seems like a good way to atomize most of North America.

[Arjan]

I think Vadderung new. Did he talk about celestial or infernal power?

[Mira]

Being reduced to a smoldering corpse or planted like a vegetable is a pretty thorough ass kicking. Odin knew he was going to lose so he took advantage of it by setting up the Gungnir trap.

But that is what winning is all about, it is about brains and planning, not just brawn and power.. Odin and company knew that it would be stupid to go at Ethniu head on, she had the advantage both with her armor and the Eye.. So you think of ways around it, he set the Gungnir trap and her ass was effectively kicked..  Think Ali and the old "rope-a-dope.."  As he got older Ali knew going toe to toe with Frasier or Forman wasn't smart, so he devised rope-a-dope, and when the time was right, he knocked them on their ass.

[Yuillegan]

Is Jim implying that the Erlking used the Dark Hallow Ritual?

I don't believe so, although his wording is a little obscure. My interpretation is that the reason the Erlking is summoned is that the necromancers needed all those spirits, especially the really big old ones. It's what the Erlking does every time he rides. He summons the spirits of the old hunters.

Ethniu didn't really kick their asses, she just thought she did.  They needed her to think that so they could get close enough to fight her.  Odin let her take Gungnir from him, then when she tried to use it, he turned it against her with a blast to the face which enabled Lara to give her a kick to the back of the head to dislodge the Eye, then weakened and without her main weapon, Harry with Marcone/Namshiel's help come in on clean up and ship her to Demonreach.

That's an interesting interpretation. Except, she was quite a bit stronger than any single one of them and wearing armour that made her nigh-invulnerable...

I can tell you for a fact though that the Gungnir trick that Odin pulled is ripped from 1st edition D&D. Odin is in the Deities and Demigods supplement, and Gungnir has a special trick that means anyone who holds it without Odin's permission is transmogrified into an ant or loses half their hit points.

The Erlking got beaten so badly half his body disintegrated and had to reform, Odin lay unmoving and burned for most of the rest of the battle, and Titania (arguably the next strongest person on the battlefield after Ethniu) was choked out and stuffed head first into the ground. Now, that could be a bluff but if it was it was a hell of one. Just for reference too, when we last saw Odin (as Kringle) pull a bluff, it did seem a bit too easy - this was when Harry out wrestled him and took leadership of the Wild Hunt in Cold Days.

I think everyone got quite lucky that Harry was there, otherwise Ethniu probably would still be roaming around.

[TheCuriousFan]

Also if being pummeled by Ethniu was all part of the plan he wouldn't be still mad six months after it.

[The_Sibelis]

Gotta say, the gungir scene was awesome. "Swayer" swayed the battle at just the right point... Also

(click to show/hide)

it along with word on Odin being just a piece of the being he was, brings me back into my Odin=Zeus aspects. His spear turned into a literal lightning bolt, reminded me so much of the lightning thief.. I'd have to check into it, but I don't remember gungir having that particular aspect in mythos?

[Mira]

Also if being pummeled by Ethniu was all part of the plan he wouldn't be still mad six months after it.

No lasting effects though, Odin seemed okay at the meeting.  Also didn't Harry ask him as to whether he "allowed" him to kick his ass and Kringle replied something like did he want to go another round?

[Yuillegan]

Also if being pummeled by Ethniu was all part of the plan he wouldn't be still mad six months after it.

Agreed. That man has a reputation to uphold!

Gotta say, the gungir scene was awesome. "Swayer" swayed the battle at just the right point... Also

(click to show/hide)

it along with word on Odin being just a piece of the being he was, brings me back into my Odin=Zeus aspects. His spear turned into a literal lightning bolt, reminded me so much of the lightning thief.. I'd have to check into it, but I don't remember gungir having that particular aspect in mythos?

Clever bit of wordplay on Jim's part. I too have wondered before about the connection between Zeus and Vadderung. The spear didn't have any associations with lightning really that I recall from my study of Norse mythology, and I was quite into it for a while. That being said often such tools are allegories for natural phenomena. Still, could well be a hint.

If Zeus and Odin were one and the same, I wonder if that means there are actually less gods overall and they just go by a different names and identities to different cultures. A sort of original family of gods. Not saying this is the case though.

No lasting effects though, Odin seemed okay at the meeting.  Also didn't Harry ask him as to whether he "allowed" him to kick his ass and Kringle replied something like did he want to go another round?

Well, he is still a god. The Erlking started healing straight away too. But it's more about reputation as much as physical survival. When you live by your name and your deeds, protecting it is vital. Even if the story isn't true. So it would be bad to build a story on losing to Ethniu unless there was a longer term gain. Occam's razor - they lost to Ethniu.

Exactly my point. Kringle allowed it once, but only once, and was saying "if you wanna see how it would really go down then step up". He let Harry win easily. And he did it so Harry had the necessary tools to defeat the Outsider attack on the Demonreach. So there was a clear gain too.

[The_Sibelis]

If Zeus and Odin were one and the same, I wonder if that means there are actually less gods overall and they just go by a different names and identities to different cultures. A sort of original family of gods. Not saying this is the case though.

that part has been confirmed per Woj. I factored in seracks grand unification theory(need to reread that soon)with it a long time ago. Originally thought Odin was Thor/Hercules taken on Zeus's mantle, but Thor apparently exists elsewhere in the DF. Him being a fraction of what he used to be would could be the connection though.