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Messages - Mira

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136
DF Spoilers / Re: "Hooded one" is hood. Odin is Cowl.
« on: December 03, 2023, 04:36:32 AM »
Arguably, this too could have been Odin working to challenge everyone, train Harry, etc.

Nemfecting the Faerie Godmother of a Starborn Wizard, and the right hand of the Outer Gates' chief guardian??!?

Well... yes...  If Odin felt that Mab had grown too complacent, too self-confident.  Odin might have felt that WinterQueen + Starborn were sufficient guardrails upon a known Nemfection... a "calculated risk."  It is, admittedly, a very cold-blooded and calculating sort of action; but I think it hardly beyond Odin's strategic grasp.

And although Mab lost her daughter, it's worth noting:  Mab's contingencies were, in fact, sufficient to contain the mess!

Maybe not beyond his grasp, but still rather doubtful.

137
DF Spoilers / Re: "Hooded one" is hood. Odin is Cowl.
« on: December 02, 2023, 12:05:10 AM »
If my WAG about this is correct, "Cowl" isn't a threat at all -- "Cowl" exists solely as a shadow to train-up Harry, to shake up the White Council, to get various powers-that-be and individuals off their duff's and into action.

Because there really IS a hidden threat; it really HAS been working for years; and Odin wants folks alert to it, opposing it, and ready to fight when the Big One happens.

Could be, hard to tell even at this point.  Though it appears that Cowl was at Bianca's party and had something to do with Lea getting the infected knife.  Of that is true, he is hardly harmless and I doubt that he shows up with the purpose of training up Harry.

138
DF Spoilers / Re: "Hooded one" is hood. Odin is Cowl.
« on: November 29, 2023, 03:59:30 PM »
If this follows as true, then Cowl/Odin performing the Darkhallow was meant to regain his godhood.

Reminds me a bit of Gaiman's American Gods. Won't spoil it, but there's that scene...

Was it to regain his godhood?  Or to gain godhood?  There is a difference.

139
DF Spoilers / Re: "Hooded one" is hood. Odin is Cowl.
« on: November 29, 2023, 04:02:16 AM »
Cowl is way, way, way underpowered to be Odin.
Like... multiple orders of magnitude.

Cowl isn't even in Ebenezer's weight-class.

Unless, of course, OdinCowl has been pulling his punches... acting a threat to help folks see the damned obvious right under their noses but always (just barely) failing.

Which seems like it'd actually be pretty Odin-esque, TBH.

My question is what is the point? They may appear very much alike, but if Odin is Cowl why is he undercutting himself?  Last I checked they don't play on the same team.. Of course that may be the point.

140
DF Spoilers / Re: WOJ search for Uriel/Odin deal for Murphy.
« on: November 27, 2023, 07:55:14 PM »
I think this is part of Uriel and/or Odin pulling another fast one.

As part of Uriel's "spook squad" (running under her dad's office), she gets to work directly against the plans of the Fallen, in realtime/now, without waiting for the Einherjar "beyond living memory" to kick in.

But as one of Odin's soldiers... well, as it happens, she gets that shiny new Einherjar body.

Odin and Uriel roll their eyes helplessly and go "Mortals, sheesh... wotcha gonna do?"
(ya gotta use your imagination to see the wink&nod passing between them... but it's there)

I suppose.... The lengths some authors will go to turn an otherwise strong female character into a superhero.. ::)


141
DF Spoilers / Re: WOJ search for Uriel/Odin deal for Murphy.
« on: November 25, 2023, 03:41:50 PM »


  One wonders if Murphy made herself vulnerable to be taken by Odin when she spent so much time
training with the Einherjaar.  After she left the police force she was adrift.  After Harry seemingly died I think she also became disillusioned about her faith, she seemed to have found a purpose when she started doing some work with Odin.  If she hadn't been dismissed from the police force and had remained a practicing Catholic I doubt she would have woken up in Valhalla.   

142
DF Spoilers / Re: Is Mab autistic?
« on: November 19, 2023, 01:07:23 PM »
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We don't really know what we saw with Maeve, or Aurora:  were they being "tricked into thinking it was themselves"?  Were they in the "fully-dominated" category?  Or were they actively & knowingly partnering with Nemesis?

 I agree, especially in the case of Aurora, we don't really know, because we never saw her before she was infected.  Actually though we have guessed that she was, there is nothing at least in the books that confirm that she was.  Is there a WOJ out there that confirms it?  In the case of Maeve it is almost as sketchy, when we first meet her in Mac's bar I think it was in Summer Knight, she appears sane.. Or sane compared to how she acts as the series moves on.  I believe that Nemesis does take advantage of the weakness in the being it infects and is let in by that being. I also don't think there are set rules, while I find it hard to believe that Maeve was tricked, I think it very possible that Justine was.

143
DF Spoilers / Re: Is Mab autistic?
« on: November 17, 2023, 01:57:05 PM »
Jim just answered a question about the Jade Court which probably applies to Mab.  Jim said that members of Jade Court behave in a manner that might appear to be autistic, but not exactly.  The reason it may apply to Mab is Jim said it's just the way that creatures who are functionally immortal keep themselves sane.  They wrap themselves in ritual, performing specific behaviors.  I think in the Jade Court's case this behavior is exacerbated by the fact that their particular culture is so insular to begin with.

This might explain why Mab told Harry that he should kill Molly if Mab died during the events in Battle Ground.  Molly doesn't perform the kind of behaviors that Mab has become accustomed to doing to function as an immortal.  However, it's possible that Mab is wrong, that Molly has just found a different way to adjust to the pressure of being immortal.  I suppose that is a question for a different thread and probably one that cannot be answered until sometime in the future. 

Here's a link to the exact quote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRcj4gvGXKI
The question starts at about 32:30 into the talk

It makes sense, neither the Fae or the Jade Court are human, they are not mortals even if they appear that way, thus their behavior cannot be judged as mortals judge mortal behavior.  It does get tricky in cases like Mab, because she once was a mortal.  As Mother Winter says with disgust, "she is a romantic," meaning in my opinion that she believes that Mab's judgement is sometimes influenced by what little human or mortal that is left in her.  However Mab has worn a Fae mantel for so long she is 99.999% Fae now,views the world and reacts to the world mostly as a Fae, thus to mortals her behavior appears to be autistic..

Mother Summer tries to explain what ties and the divides mortals and the Fae to Harry in Cold Days pages 326-327

Quote
" You are endlessly fascinating.  We conceive our children with mortals.  We move and sway in time to the mortal seasons.  We dance to mortal music, we make our homes like mortal dwellings, feast upon mortal foods. We find parts of ourselves becoming more like them, and yet we are not like them.  Many of the things they think and feel, and a great many of their actions, are inexplicable to us."


Harry doesn't say it, but mortals can return the favor, much of what the Fae think, feel, and actions are inexplicable to mortals... Thus while some mortals may view Mab's behavior as being autistic, in the end she is just behaving like a Fae.


144
DF Spoilers / Re: Is Mab autistic?
« on: November 12, 2023, 05:47:27 AM »
I think that more likely the case.  The Queen mantles are almost a set of programming, augmenting and in many cases driving or even compelling the host's mental processes.  Look at how Molly said she'd have no choice but take the personal debt Harry was incurring getting her help with the decoy construct to fool Ebenezar fully seriously.  She meant, literally, no choice.

That's why I think it is important to also study Lea's behavior as a control..  Remember it was the debt deal that sixteen year old Harry made with Lea that got him stuck where he is now eventually as Winter Knight.  I don't think the debt thing has anything to do with the Queen or Lady's mantle, it is more of a Fae thing.

145
DF Spoilers / Re: Is Mab autistic?
« on: November 11, 2023, 10:08:13 PM »
Another thought I had:  maybe one of the side-effects of the WQ-Mantle might push the bearer towards autism-like behaviors.

Harry and Molly are (so far) mostly resisting the worst of their Mantles' impulses... but Mab has been subject to hers for about a thousand years, we think...

 It might be interesting to study Lea's behavior, she doesn't have a mantle, but she is Fae. My impression of her, and now I will have to go back and look for it to be sure, but I think she has a lot of the same impulses that Mab has.  The Fae are not human as the Mothers pointed out to Harry back in Cold Days.  So while the tendencies of Mab may look autistic to us, that is a human diagnosis for human behavior which might be totally normal in a Fae Queen.

The only real information we have on how it feels to be a vessel of a mantel is what Harry says he is going through as Winter Knight.  The affect on him has been hyper-aggressiveness which can be a problem until he figured out that heavy exercise can burn off the excessive testosterone/epinephrine
jolts to his system to a more manageable level.  I have to reread what Molly says about it, if anything, but it appears that the Lady and Queen mantels run on a different system.

146
DF Spoilers / Re: Is Mab autistic?
« on: November 11, 2023, 07:20:53 PM »
Quote
So... is Mab (high-functioning (very high functioning!)) autistic?
:-\
 She could be, then again maybe one has to act like one to be a Fae Queen.  I think it could go
either way, but we need more information about her before she took up the life that ultimately led to her taking up the mantle of the Winter Queen.

147
DF Spoilers / Re: Dabble Interview 23 August 2023
« on: November 09, 2023, 03:40:41 PM »
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None of the younger kids have any power, specifically because Charity was abstaining from magic use.

I haven't seen that, but then I don't keep up with WOJs that much so I take your word on that.

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Now, this still follows "natural" law, the "rule of science:"  epigenetics is the study of how genes express, of how  environmental/dietary/etc factors alter the expression of genes.  It'd be unsurprising if active magic were an epigenetic factor (raising the question of whether just "hanging out with" a very-actively practicing wizard, or having lots of spells cast upon you, could activate latent genes).

That's one of the unexplained things in both magic and science.  As in how is it that a very gifted child in any field turn up in a very ordinary family with no family history of gifted and talented people, or interest in the field the child is so gifted in..  What is more, two geniuses marry and have children who share none of their parent's gifts.  It can get really complicated with exceptions that can prove or disprove almost every rule.  So I think Jim is on pretty safe ground no matter how he chooses or has Harry explain it.
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But it also doesn't rule out supernatural law(s) that might override "natural law" in some magical way(s).
No, it doesn't, but Harry saying the talent is usually passed down through the female line doesn't dispute either natural law or supernatural law from the information we have gotten so far.

148
DF Spoilers / Re: Dabble Interview 23 August 2023
« on: November 09, 2023, 05:30:15 AM »
Sometimes, as Harry tells us, magic has to "do business with" physics (or science, generally).
It's possible there are no "laws of magic" that violate any of the laws of science, insofar as power/talent inheritance goes... It might just be pure genetics, epigenetics, etc.

We *do* know (per WoJ) that magic power can fade, and with it the chance to pass it along.  Molly (Charity's firstborn) inherited power from her mother, but (because Charity stopped using her (never strong) power) her younger kids have no such potential.

Yeah, Charity came to mind when I wrote my reply, but since I was writing about talent genes I left her out.  Whether her talent faded for lack of use or not, that still doesn't preclude her from carrying it and passing on the gene for talent.  I think it very possible that all of Charity's kids inherited talent from their mom, but nothing out of the ordinary, or like their mom they chose not to pursue it.  In general though I think that the laws of genetics do apply in inheriting magical talent like most things.  However it doesn't explain a lot of things, as in two very ordinary parents can produce a genius and two other very ordinary kids, that's the magical intangibles that still aren't fully understood in fantasy or real life.

149
DF Spoilers / Re: Dabble Interview 23 August 2023
« on: November 08, 2023, 04:27:35 AM »
It is IMO highly-possible that:
 - it doesn't actually follow the rules of "science" (it is magic, after all!)
 - it follows scientific rules, but magic-power inheritance is subtle/complex enough and hard-enough-to-study (science mixing poorly with magic) that nobody has actually put in the needed time & effort to figure it out
 - Jim hasn't actually decided on the rules, because he wants to be free to write characters however he wants/needs, and not have weird early-episode decisions get in the way of the story... or just thinks it doesn't matter.

I don't know if in the case of inheritance of talent that it can't both follow science and magic at the same time.  It gives Jim perfect freedom, which ever way he chooses or not to explain it. When a young would be wizard or warlock is described, it is said that their talent as awakened,not their magic.  Talent is the level of power they were born with, magic is what they learn.  I agree that talent is an elusive thing, while it could very well be true that talent/power is passed on by the mother.. The power level of that talent isn't predictable and is complex, lots of potential wizards are born, but truly gifted and powerful wizards are rare.  I seem to remember Thomas quoting Harry as he did a simple tracking spell that all humans are born with some talent.  Thomas is a complex example, Butters could pull off a magic circle, but I think a tracking spell is a step up.  Thomas has never claimed to have much if any talent, though I do think it isn't all that easy to pull off a tracking spell without some talent.  We know who his mother was, so you'd think he'd inherit some from her, since he used a spell to kill Margaret, Lord Raith must have talent as well... One has to wonder, just how much talent does Thomas have?

150
DF Spoilers / Re: Dabble Interview 23 August 2023
« on: November 07, 2023, 01:29:38 PM »
I just think that we -- the fans -- don't really have a solid basis for theorizing about genetic lineages of wizards.

Between Harry being an "unreliable narrator" (which sometimes may include simply being mistaken or ignorant about his info) and Jim Butcher seemingly-intentionally avoiding giving definitive answers, I think "what we can be sure of" in this regard is a vanishingly-small basis for drawing any conclusions, inferences, extrapolations, etc...

Oh I don't disagree with that, often repeated is it is passed though the mother's side of the family, generally. All I pointed out is it is possible for the gene to be carried by the mother, and she, herself, not have talent. There are lots of examples of that in the real world.  So just because Harry's grandmother supposedly had no talent herself, that doesn't mean she didn't carry the gene.  We can quickly get into the weeds when we start talking dominant/recessive genes, sex linked genes, etc.. Listens To Wind has enough science as well as magical background to explain it, though he hasn't.  Harry maybe an unreliable narrator, but in the case of who has and passes the gene on for magical talent, it is a complicated subject.  As you say, we just don't know enough to say that Harry is right, wrong, or both.

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