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Messages - Ed0517

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151
DF Spoilers / Re: So Fitz is...
« on: December 06, 2022, 10:14:04 PM »
  I would tend to agree, but at the same time as far as the series goes at any rate, this circle has never been used for anything more dangerous than a Loop.  However while a Loop is real bad ass I don't remember it actually having power like a demi-god or an archangel..  So was Harry right about what he said about the circle?  Remains to be seen, or at least we haven't seen the evidence of it as of yet.

Yeah, the biggest BAs we have seen circled are Mab, Titania, and the Erlking.

Plus, we have to separate Word of Harry from Word of Jim. Harry may THINK it holds archangels. The WC also thought the Archive was on the level with the Fairy Ladies, and we have seen she is well above that. Harry can be just wrong. Isn't he the one who said Uriel could undo worlds... and Uriel upgrades to "Galaxies"? That's a few orders of magnitude....

152
DF Spoilers / Re: Can Demonreach do this?
« on: December 06, 2022, 05:13:59 AM »
Could Fidelacchius kill the demon side but save the human side?

But to take this a step further, how would Thomas react if this was possible?

I think it would boil down to one thing - did they get Nemesis out of Justine?

If they couldn't.... he stays a Whamp

If they could - to be with her, he gets separated. She would be the reason. 

153
DF Spoilers / Re: Can Demonreach do this?
« on: December 06, 2022, 05:11:58 AM »
I suspect Margaret LaFay couldn't really experiment, tho:  Papa Raith would likely frown on any wizard working out a method to un-Whamp someone, it would be too huge a vulnerability once the method (inevitably) got loose.  So no, she didn't have an opportunity (IMHO).

Margaret looks like she could have taught sneaky to Harry. She was evading the Wardens for years.  I think the question is more would she have had a reason to try

154
DF Spoilers / Re: So Fitz is...
« on: December 06, 2022, 05:10:34 AM »

I continue to think, however, that the most-likely reason for MacFinn's reticence with regard to Harry is that Harry is WC.  I think the family lore is probably that WC soften ends in the Wardens, then the Loup goes wild, there are deaths & other mayhem, and eventually one or more Loup's / heirs get killed, until the Curse passes to some sufficiently-obscure cadet branch that the Wardens don't find it for a while.

that would seem awfully short-sighted, considering they know that they need a heavy duty circle for the loup. Letting any Tom, Dick, or Kim try to fix it? They seem responsible, considering the time between outbreaks (if the French outbreak was even them) - why not reach out?

155
DF Spoilers / Re: Can Demonreach do this?
« on: December 06, 2022, 04:59:57 AM »
I was thinking: maybe it would be possible to make the demon sleep, instead of separating it. Like Lea did with Susan and Martin. So technically Thomas would be awake and possibly alive after intense feeding WITH his demon still there but inactive.
I can imagine, that Demonreach could do that.

I expect it is the demon that actually feeds, not the "human" side. So the demon has to be active

Also, Martin and Susan were born human. Whamps are born Whamps.  Nothing to go back to. 

156
DF Spoilers / Re: So Fitz is...
« on: December 06, 2022, 04:38:41 AM »
Well, the circle that Uriel said wouldn't do squat was one that Harry did while he was flat on his broken back in Changes.  It was more mental than physical, it wasn't the same circle as Finn had. As to having one like that in his lab, think he answered that question when he wouldn't show Kim how to make it, draws too much attention from the Wardens because of what can be summoned with one.  Also through out the series he has managed to contain some pretty powerful beings with an ordinary chalk one.

Uriel is magnitudes of power above the beings Harry caged. He scares MAB. She won't speak his NAME she's so scared.  Plus, didn't we have WOJ on a multidimensional continuum? Even multiple Mothers. One unique entity we have seen. Uriel. You think TWG is going to let creatures have enough power to cage HIS top spook? Uriel walks.

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Women have been trying to buy men off with food since the first mastodon steak....  works quite a bit.

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It is a bit more complicated than that, trust me..

I said TRYING. Didn't say it always worked. But it sure has in some cases

157
DF Spoilers / Re: So Fitz is...
« on: December 05, 2022, 05:19:52 AM »
ah, shouldn't be a Highlands castle... got thrown by Mac, which is more typically Scottish.. Irish more commonly Mc. But it does happen on both sides. They are closer to each other than the Sassenach....

158
Would Harry even see anything... is Nik too far gone?

159
DF Spoilers / Re: Who else is out there?
« on: December 05, 2022, 05:12:53 AM »
Haven't seen roman or Greeks. Lea is definitively Celtic, but have we seen any other named beings from the Tuatha? Their enemy fomorians have been seen. The Morrigan could be an interesting spice. And she's higher up the chain than Lea.

160
DF Spoilers / Re: So Fitz is...
« on: December 05, 2022, 05:05:44 AM »
I think we should presume the MacFinn lineage was in possession of the major Circle since that 1600's date.

Well, something. It may have been different circles. Or, could this thing be caged? Could it be contained in a  Highlands dungeon in heavy chains and 2 inch thick bars? Such cells don't travel easily, though



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That "outbreak" (in the 1600's) might have represented a discontinuity in Circle-possession & family-lore.  The main family line may have died out, and they were unclear who would inherit.  Then they had to wait to find out who wolfed-out, and maybe it was a very distant relationship.  Eventually the horror story reached the family-in-the-know, and they rushed circle & family-records to the site...


.... I am thinking possibly the curse follows the blood, not just the name.... the heir might have met some sweet French girl in his travels - perhaps aboard to study -  before he was ever betrothed, and left her something to remember him by. He became the loup later, and when he passed, his legitimate son expected to receive the curse... and didn't...  and the creature was free to prey until the family hunted him down.

(all of which presumes the 1600's Loup (as mentioned by Bob) was a Loup of the MacFinn line, and not some other Loup; maybe the MacFinn's were safely under control through this time ... But I presume Jim wouldn't have written Bob's line to be irrelevant, so...)
[/quote]

161
DF Spoilers / Re: Can Demonreach do this?
« on: December 05, 2022, 04:57:20 AM »
I think Demonreach has the power, but it must be linked to a Warden with the skill to perform the spell. Currently that is beyond Harry's level.
We don't know if it even can be done. Do we have any record of any wizard cleaving off the demon? Maggie was a wizard of skill, and had plenty of opportunity. Did she ever split one off?

162
DF Spoilers / Re: So Fitz is...
« on: December 05, 2022, 04:11:49 AM »
Maybe, but more afraid of them than himself if the circle isn't properly reconstructed?  So he turns to a total amateur?  Yeah, I think it possible most likely probable that Listens to Wind knew and knows Tera West.  His people most likely know Tera West, which when you think of it seems odd that she didn't insist on him going to Listens to Wind or go to him herself.  There is trust there and I doubt that Listens would turn Finn into the WC.  Actually, why would he?  Finn wasn't breaking any of the Laws, he was just trying to keep himself and everyone else safe. 

And the fact the last outbreak was 400 years ago makes you think they have been pretty responsible about it.

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As a group we've been struggling with this for years.  Maybe the problem is this was Jim's second novel, and though the opening premise sound good, it doesn't stand up to logic or common sense.
Yeah, probably best to write it off as a lack of continuity. Just like Harry originally was described as tallm, but now he's 6'9"...  who had the impression in the early books he was a full foot taller than a lot of men? 


 
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Which is when you think of it a bit insulting to Harry.  Yeah, he was broke and likes a good steak dinner as well as the next person, but did she think he could be bought off that cheaply or at all? 
Women have been trying to buy men off with food since the first mastodon steak....  works quite a bit.
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I have this hypocritical question about how to build a circle strong enough to hold demi-gods and archangels, 
This is likely going to be one of the inconsistencies. They may have thought it at the time, but i bet Mr. Sunshine would walk thru it like a summer rain. In fact, why wouldn't Harry have a circle like that in his lab, then? He's had the Erlking mad at him. He;s even circled Uriel, though Uriel said it wouldn't do squat.

163
DF Spoilers / Re: So Fitz is...
« on: December 04, 2022, 01:16:22 AM »
Finn is no bumbling fool, and his "little problem" isn't something he knows little about, his life and others depends upon it... He'd know as much as possible about it. Kim knows nothing, she just thinks she does,that's the problem.

Kim knows a little - she knew the outer circle. MacFinn may not know too much - amd Kim had access to a WC wizard to ask questions of. He didn't
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Then he was either a total ignorant fool easily duped, or desperate.

I think he IS desperate... [/quote]
 
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Except it never was about money with her, that wasn't what she was after.  Notice, her first move is to try and bribe Harry with a steak dinner..

Her first  act is to bribe a man she knows has been broke and not eating well with one of Mac's steaks... not even a sandwich, the steak dinner - she's hitting him in a weak spot now...

Just came to me - in a later book, doesn't Listens to Wind pass along Tera's regards to Harry? I guess it is possible she met him later, but did she know him at this time? If he asked the gf, she knew serious heavy hitters... he didn't ask her? She didn't push? Or is MacFinn afraid of the WC?

164
DF Spoilers / Re: Can Demonreach do this?
« on: December 04, 2022, 12:35:49 AM »
I tend to think Demonreach is a blunt force object, and removing the demon is a delicate operation. It needs a scalpel, not an ax.

165
DF Spoilers / Re: So Fitz is...
« on: December 03, 2022, 05:43:16 AM »
I think Harry is pretty unusual in his money troubles.

In Proven Guilty, Harry explained one of Molly's options was to become wealthy from her magic.
From Ghost Story (where Molly was the Rag Lady, living on the streets & largely without financial resources) to Cold Days was no more than a year (likely much less), and she had done a total 180; a favor for the Svartalves got her a swank apartment, but she herself had filled it with top-grade goods.

Other paranet threads have explored wizard & White Council finances.  I'm pretty sure that (if they feel cash-strapped, and aren't as pig-headed as Dresden) most wizards can easily become wealthy if they have even the slightest desire to do so.

I doubt that money is much of a motivator for most wizards.

Molly got it big from the svartalves. They may be paying a stipend as well, not just giving her the apartment - but if you suddenly did not have to pay rent/mortgage/ property taxes... couldn't you upgrade YOUR gear?  She found a rich patron fast.

We do not know how rich the other wizards are - we haven't seen them. I never got the impression Justin lived it up. Eb doesn't, but that could be him. Possibly Molly's talents could get her rich. Heck, how good a PI tail could she be with her veils? Industrial espionage? Her talents may be marketable. What does Harry do with his? He breaks things. Hardly low key, either.

and I think $10,000 a year to be on call is a nice fee when you rarely even get called.

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