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DF Spoilers / Re: How often does Harry's withholding of information actually get people hurt...
« on: June 04, 2019, 08:11:01 PM »Quote
2. Harry caused Kirby's death in Turn Coat. But for Harry going to Billy's, Kirby wouldn't have been involved. Harry being the "but-for" cause does not make him responsible, either legally or morally. Legally, being the cause in fact if necessary but not sufficient for culpability. I'd say it is the same for morally, but morality is infinitely debatable. That, however, has nothing to do with whether or not Kirby died because Harry withheld information from Billy. I agree with the arguments that he did not and don't think I've seen an argument other than "Billy said so" on the other side.
Which he clearly didn't say if one cares to read the text.. Billy is emphatic that it wasn't Harry's fault.
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“Billy,” I said quietly. “This isn’t stuff you can unlearn. Right now, you’re insulated from the worst of what goes on because you’re . . . I don’t want to be insulting, but you’re a bunch of amateurs without enough of a clue to be a real threat to anyone.”
His eyes darkened. “Insulated from the worst?” he asked in a quiet, dangerous voice. “Tell that to Kirby. Tell that to Andi.”
Obviously if he has been shielding then from the worst they can't of had any idea that something like the Skinwalker was a possibility. And if that isn't clear then there is this.
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Because as I have written from when it happened, Will was not blaming Harry... Harry hadn't been trying to shield them from anything because he didn't know what in the hell he had just seen except it was very bad and dangerous...
The quote you cite is on page 220, Harry now knows what they are after and it is on the island. Will is willing to help, but he no longer wants to be shielded from the danger by Harry.. He wasn't assessing blame for Kirby's death to Harry, he was saying that they are not kids anymore, and earned the right to be fully filled in about what is going down..
Harry then says..
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I pointed a finger at him. "I don't want it. I don't wantto drag you into what's going on/ I don't want you walking into more danger and getting hurt." I sighed. "But. . .there is a lot at stake, and I think I may need your help."
Will agrees, and Harry realizes they are not kids anymore, and promises to clue them in as much as he can from now on...
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1) First, that it claims that Harry is the reason for all the nasty stuff happening around him. Whether Harry were around or not, the problems of Storm Front, Fool Moon, Summer Knight, Death Masks, part of Blood Rites, Dead Beat (probably), possibly Proven Guilty (depending on what people's motivations were--we just don't know yet), Turn Coat (although it wouldn't have happened in Chicago), and possibly Cold Days, would still have happened. And most of them would have happened in the same place. So how is Harry considered responsible for bringing down all that trouble onto people?
Because he is the lightning rod, and because for the most part he is the one who cares enough to want to do something about it... What is more has the talent to do something about it... He is living the argument his mother used to make to the Senior Council, that wizards cannot lock themselves away in some ivory tower while the world falls down around them.. Other people naturally want to join his causes, they are very dangerous causes, and people get hurt and sometimes even killed.
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2)"Everyone around him" is too broad a category. Harry does not owe it to the entire city of Chicago to tell them about the supernatural world. You could as easily claim that Harry owes it to everyone around him to go live as a hermit and never get close to anyone, because trouble might find him and hurt those around him. It's just unreasonable.It is, but like he learned from Will, if someone is willing to put his or her life on the line, they deserve the complete skinny on as to why...
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This would probably work, except that I tend to think that Harry was too catatonic to be expected to remember it in order to tell Will at the time. Other people may interpret his level of non-functionality differently, however.
The way I read the text and the aftermath of Kirby's death, Harry wasn't sure what he saw, he had never seen a skinwalker before that moment.. It wasn't until the fight was over that he realized what they were up against..
Page 33
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"What was that thing?"
"I'm not certain," I answered, breathing hard. Georgia was coming along behind us dragging my staff in her jaws. "But if it is what I think it is, things just got a lot worse."
Billy looked up at me, Kirby's blood all over his face and hands. "What is it Harry?"
"A Native American nightmare," I said. I looked at him gravely, "A skinwalker."
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