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Messages - Griffyn612

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106
DF Spoilers / Re: Damn, Maeve really did win
« on: August 05, 2021, 02:13:00 AM »
For sure there might be extra steps to get things done, but it's an option.  I think Molly counts pretty much as fae for the purposes of Winter Law anyway.
Certainly possible.

I don't think that the infection works like that. I think it's an amplification of something that is in everybody, some weakness.  And the infection acts like a reinforcement of that weakness. That's basically how it worked with Cat Sith. He hated serving Harry and the voice whispered to him to kill Harry.  When Harry points it out, Cat Sith resisted and was destroyed. I'm not sure that there is anything left of Justine.

Mab on the other hand had Molly prepared, however the Queen does that kind of thing.  It was Mab's choice where that mantle went.


We don't know much for sure about the infection, but we know that the host can recover from Beside taking control. He took control of Lea in Proven Guilty, and she bounced back.

107
DF Spoilers / Re: More foreshadowing?
« on: August 04, 2021, 10:20:46 PM »
  I line comes into my head about the Fae and "first born children,"  in reference to Molly.  I think it was in "Proven Guilty," but I could be wrong about that or the line all together, frankly I cannot remember, but if it exists it is a huge foreshadowing.
Lea mentioned an interest in Michael's firstborn in Grave Peril.

Quote
   "You have children, do you not?” She shivered
again and said, “Mortal children are so sweet. And
can be bent and shaped in so many, many ways.
Your eldest daughter, I think, would—”

108
DF Spoilers / Re: Damn, Maeve really did win
« on: August 04, 2021, 10:11:22 PM »
In Battle Ground, just after Murphy is killed, Mab orders Harry to kill Molly if she doesn't survive.  She goes on to tell him why, though Molly has the makings of a good Lady, she would be horrible for everyone as Queen... What I am saying and why it has bearing, if Mab feels that way now, she felt that way then... Which is the reason why she had ordered Harry to kill Maeve, even if it wasn't him that ended up doing it.  Titania lost her daughter, she accepted Lily but for how long? Because she had many short comings, she may have had to have her killed also.. And if she wasn't satisfied with Sarissa, I don't think Titania would hesitate to order her killed.  Heck she may have wanted Lily dead, but Fix loved her and may have talked Titania out of it.
Ah, right, gotta.

Probably referencing Mab's comment in BG before the Eye showdown.  I think the point was that even if the Lady mantle chooses someone that Mab disapproves of, as long as Mab knows where it is, she can kill the new Lady in the presence of a more suitable candidate. 
My only comment would be that Mab might have to have Molly killed, rather than kill her herself, if she decided to not keep her. Mostly because Molly may still technically be mortal, and Molly didn't make a contract with Mab like Harry did.

But I think there was WoJ about Molly accepting the mantle, so maybe she's signed on and owned just like Harry.

109
DF Spoilers / Re: Notes on Contagion
« on: August 04, 2021, 05:10:45 PM »
Theoretical breakdown between those corrupted by the outsider contagion spell versus those possessed by Beside.

(Incomplete at this time)

  • Corruption does not require Beside involved, and simply occurs by interacting with power tainted with the Outsider contagion spell, which corrupts the individual by linking them to Outside/Lord of Slowest Terror.
  • Corruption is unlimited.
  • Possession requires willing consent, or no consent for those lacking free will and subordinate to another possessed individual.
  • Possession has an upper limit.

Corrupted (as specified in CD)
  • Victor Sells : Scorpion totem : Cowl
  • Philip Denton : Wolf Belts : Cowl
  • Leonid Kravos : Big Leather Book : Cowl
  • Aurora : ??? : Elaine?

Seemingly corrupted based on behavior
  • Madrigal Raith (feeding habits)
  • Vitto Malvora (aggression, outsider possession)
  • Madge Shelly (aggression, loss of morals)
  • Cowl (lack of empathy, use of outsiders)

Possessed by Beside
  • Lord Raith : ancient times : Ruby earring from someone/some spell
  • Lea : GP/DB : Athame from Cowl
  • Maeve : SK/PG : Willing deal with Lea
  • Scarecrow : ??? : Commanded by Winter Lady
  • Namshiel's Host : ??? : Deal for control?
  • Cat Sith : CD : Commanded by Winter Lady
  • Justine : BR/TC : ? Maybe Lord Rath on Beside-pilot?

110
DF Spoilers / Re: Notes on Contagion
« on: August 04, 2021, 04:42:44 PM »
I'm trying to figure out in my head using book evidence if the contagion *has* to be Beside. I'd prefer if it didn't.

I'd prefer if the contagion is a conduit that corrupts those it touches, changing them, but it doesn't have anything to do with Beside.

The question is, if the contagion in last call tied the beer drinkers to the essence of Dionysus, then could the nemesis contagion tie to the Lord of Slowest Terror, master of the Walkers?

It could be that the contagion is a psychic link, and the link causes behavior corruption without Beside being involved.

Beside could just be using the link to spy on some, and possess a select few that meet additional criteria.

111
DF Spoilers / Re: Damn, Maeve really did win
« on: August 04, 2021, 04:32:46 PM »
  Potential hosts maybe, but acceptable to Mab?  Or Titania for that matter, considering the disaster the last two Ladies were..  Consider Molly, as effective as she has been as Lady, Mab orders Harry to kill her if she became Queen.
I'm not sure what you mean about Mab ordering Harry to kill her? But what Mab or Titania wants doesn't really have a bearing. Titania didn't "want" Lily, but she was the closest vessel compatible to the summer lady mantle when it was vulnerable so it went into her.

Likewise, if Molly hadn't been there, but one of the nine winter Sidhe present to help Maeve had been female, it seems likely that they would have been candidates over Justine or Murphy.

Since the mantle didn't go to any of them, we can speculate that they weren't female or weren't compatible for other reasons. Or the mantle felt like Molly, despite being only human with wizard blood, was a better fit.

112
DF Spoilers / Re: Notes on Contagion
« on: August 04, 2021, 05:05:38 AM »
Theory on Order of Infection
  • Young Lord Raith infects himself; becomes anchor for Beside
  • Lord Raith infects Kemmler
  • Kemmler branch begins and ends
  • Lord Raith infects Margaret Lefay
  • Margaret Lefay breaks free
  • Lord Raith infects Justin DuMorne
  • Justin DuMorne infects Elaine Mallory
  • Lord Raith infects Cowl
  • Cowl infects Peabody
  • Cowl infects Victor Sells
  • Cowl infects Denton & the Feebs
  • Cowl infects Bianca
  • Cowl infects Leonid Kravos
  • Cowl infects Lea
  • Cowl infects Ferrovax
  • Elaine infects Aurora
  • Lea infects Maeve
  • Lord Rath infects Madge
  • Maeve infects Scarecrow
  • Cowl infects Madrigal Raith
  • Cowl infects Vitto Malvora
  • Nemesis-controlled Lord Rath infects Justine
  • Cowl infects Namshiel's Host
  • Cowl infects Madeline Raith
  • Cowl infects Arianna Ortega
  • Maeve infects Cat Sith

113
DF Spoilers / Re: Notes on Contagion
« on: August 04, 2021, 04:32:00 AM »
Suspected Infected = Suspected Vector = Suspected Source
  • Victor Sells = Scorpion = Cowl or Lord Raith (he worked at Silver Co.
  • Philip Denton & the Feebs = Wolf Belts = Cowl
  • Leonid Kravos = Big Leather Book = Cowl
  • Bianca St. Claire = ? = Cowl or Mavra (latter trained her)
  • Lea = Athame = Cowl
  • Ferrovax = Gem = Cowl
  • Aurora = ? = Elaine
  • Madge = Ritual Knife? = Lord Raith
  • Cowl = ? = Kemmler (decades prior) or Lord Raith (more recently)
  • Maeve = Athame = Lea
  • Scarecrow = ? = Maeve
  • Madrigal = ? = Cowl or Maeve
  • Vitto Malvora = ? = Cowl
  • Namshiel's Host = ? = ?
  • Peabody = ? = Cowl
  • Madeline = ? = Cowl or Maeve
  • Arianna = ? = Cowl or Bianca (years earlier)
  • Cat Sith = ? = Maeve
  • Justine = ? = Lord Raith or Madeline or ?

114
DF Spoilers / Re: Odin's Raven's
« on: August 04, 2021, 02:26:46 AM »
My guess is that only those outside of time itself are singularities like that. I think the only good guy we've seen like that is Uriel. But maybe not even him.

I do like to think that the Walkers are singularities, and the Queens are not. It would help make sense of Harry's thought in Cold Days, where Mab was a photo, and Before was the statue itself. He senses that Mab is one thing representation of the power that transcends dimensions, whereas Before is all of that power in one being that is aware of all his other existences.

And to clarify, I mean that there could be seven branch realities, and there's a Uriel and a Before in each, and they're all aware of each of their versions, and know what they know.

115
DF Spoilers / Re: Damn, Maeve really did win
« on: August 04, 2021, 02:18:05 AM »
It's apparently what Maeve thought.  Could the mantle cross the circle?
Probably not. But there's two things to consider regarding the possible hosts.
  • Justine knew Molly was there in the circle. If she was infected, then Nemesis likely knew. If Maeve was infected, then Nemesis could have told her in her head. So she might have meant Murphy, or she might have meant Molly.
  • There were nine Sidhe in each retinue, not counting Red and Rawhead. That's at least nine candidates of Summer Sidhe that should have been compatible if they were female, and possibly some from Winter in a pinch. The question is, were they all male by design, or were there any females? If so, were they potential hosts as well?

116
DF Spoilers / Notes on Contagion
« on: August 04, 2021, 02:00:58 AM »
LAST CALL
Quote
   “It’s laced with . . . some kind of contagion
focus, I think.”
   I nodded. She was talking about magical
contagion, not the medical kind. A contagion focus
was something that formed a link between a
smaller amount of its mass after it had been
separated from the main body. A practitioner
could use it to send magic into the main body, and
by extension into all the smaller foci, even if they
weren’t in the same physical place. It was sort of
like planting a transmitter on someone’s car so
that you could send a missile at it later.
...
   “The contagion looks like a simple compulsion
meant to make the victim drink more, but it’s really
a psychic conduit.”
...
   “A psychic conduit?” Murphy asked. “What’s
that?”
   “It’s like any electrical power line,” I said. “Except
it plugs into your mind—and whoever is on the
other end gets to decide what goes in.”
...
   “So do what you do. Put the whammy on them,
and let’s track them down.”
   I grimaced and shook my head. “I don’t dare,” I
told her. “All I’ve got to track with is the beer itself.
If I try to use it in a spell, it’ll open me up to the
conduit. It’ll be as if I drank the stuff.”
...
   “That’s what the psychic conduit links them to,” I
said. “To Dionysus. To the god of revels and
ecstatic violence.”

BATTLE GROUND
Quote
   “I am the doubt that wards away sleep. I am the
flaw that corrupts, the infected wound, the false
fork in the trail. I am the gnawer, the worm in the
book, the maggot that burrows in the mind’s eye.”
   “I am He Who Walks Beside.”

PROVEN GUILTY
Quote
   “These mortal notions,” Maeve said. “Good, evil,
love. All those other things your kind natter on
about. Are they perhaps contagious?”
   I rose with her, politely. “Some would say so,” I
told her.
   She grimaced. “In the time since her death, I
have often thought to myself that Aurora was
stricken with some mortal madness. I believe the
Queen of Air and Darkness has been taken by a
similar contagion.”

COLD DAYS
Quote
   “Sir Knight, you must have seen it. You must
have seen the contagion spreading. It has been
before your eyes for years.”
   “I haven’t seen . . .” Then I paused. My head
started adding things together. “You . . . you aren’t
talking about a physical disease, are you?”
   “Of course not,” Lily said. “It is a kind of spiritual
malady. A mental plague. An infection slowly
spreading across the earth.”
   “And . . . this plague. What does it do?” I asked.
   “It changes that which ought not change,” she
said quietly. “It destroys a father’s love for his
family by twisting it into maniacal ambition. It
distorts and corrupts the good intentions of
agents of mortal law into violence and death. It
erodes the sensible fear that keeps a weakly
talented sorcerer from reaching out for more
power, no matter how terrible the cost.”

117
DF Spoilers / Re: More foreshadowing?
« on: August 04, 2021, 12:55:54 AM »
I think Mab and Maeve's colors are all winter colors, aren't they? And Molly's were originally full rainbow, I believe.

Ironically or otherwise, Molly has been Lady for a couple years now and she's stayed blonde the entire time.

118
DF Spoilers / Re: What will Eb do?
« on: August 03, 2021, 08:48:51 PM »
Arianna knew, so there's a chance Nemesis knows, which means ant ally of Nemesis can be told, and they can quietly disseminate the info as much as needed. I'd say it's not much of a secret to those with the most knowledge.

119
DF Spoilers / Re: Revisit this. Grey Counsel
« on: August 03, 2021, 05:39:12 PM »
As far as the GC goes, I'd say any member has to satisfy both of the following requirements:
1)  Eb has to know them well enough to say that they are trustworthy to root out the BC with him
2)  They have to be a magic user of some sort (all 13 carried staff-ish tools in CI)

I've always been a fan of Langtry being on the list.  Sure, Langtry doesn't like Eb personally, but he's a strong wizard that Eb knows well enough that he can walk Harry through his three step strategies.  Plus, being on the GC gives him more freedom to do things than he can in his position as Merlin.  Especially when he's worried about BC attention.
I liked him for it for a while, but the more I look at it, the more it doesn't fit. Yes, he wants to root out the Black Council. But to risk being caught with a renegade group to do it seems unlike him.

And if it got out that the Merlin was violating the rules, it'd be more than just the end of his career. It'd jeopardy the council itself.

I see him as knowing about the GC, if not all the members. And I see him hoping they succeed, and even pointing them (like Harry) in the right direction if he needs to. But being an actual member? Not so much.

120
DF Spoilers / Re: Revisit this. Grey Counsel
« on: August 03, 2021, 02:30:33 PM »
River Shoulders is a tad big, no? I get he can shapeshift but why bother? Can't rule him out altogether but I feel if he was going to fight he would have been in his Bigfoot guise. That's how he normally does it.

I can't see Ramirez being on the team. Eb picked the team and he doesn't seem all that close to him. He also would have many older, less brash and vulnerable, and more experienced wizards to choose from. Also, Ramirez has really bought in to the White Council ethos. He's starting to drink the Kool-Aid (although...he might be right according to Jim). So I think he would be very conflicted if not outright sell out the Grey Council. Also, wasn't he arrested by Cristos?

Can't say I agree with the Archive either. Molly felt Vadderung's presence as he was the most powerful being there, I am sure Molly would have mentioned if she felt a similarly powerful being. Not that Ivy is as powerful, but she's well up there. She also would have been a tad short I think around that time, she might have stood out. Not to mention, the Archive is neutral. She quite specifically didn't choose sides between the White Council and the Red Court. I am not even sure she could have participated, considering how much it cost her to give Harry information in that book.

Your last four options (Pinga, Maui, Mama Wata and Sun Wukong) are interesting choices. Why those four in particular, out of interest?
Regrading River, he's large, but in a cloak at a distance while purposefully concealing all of their identities, I think it could be fine.

Regarding Carlos, he's the only one that got away from Cristos, per Chandler. Harry also previously vouched for Carlos, and his Council turn didn't start until after Changes. And he was injured at some point even before the Molly story, and it being in action unseen at CI makes sense.

Regrading Ivy, again, it's a matter of acting in secret, so hiding her identity would be required. And Ivy is neutral for the Accords, but not if the Reds were deemed to be in violation. But her involvement does seem like a stretch, even to me.

Regarding the four unknowns, I just wanted to list some possibilities that could be different than the usual western suspects. Eb seems like the type to collect acquaintances with powerful beings, and those seem like the kind that would help.

There are others I'd like to see as well, but they don't fit as well.

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