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Messages - Tami Seven

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151
DF Reference Collection / Re: Dresden Files: Series Timeline
« on: January 26, 2014, 06:04:49 PM »
Um, why? Is something wrong about his name?  ???

There is/was a Sports Commentator at the BBC named Harry Carpenter.  Aside from that, and the general teasing a name like Harry might get in the U.S., I don't really know either. 

152
I wasn't sure if we wanted to include Marcone & company, since they aren't really Harry's /friends/, but I've thrown them on the second post.  Thanks for the Justine reminder.

I can't remember all of their injuries in Even Hand, but Marcoen and company were in need of medical attention by story's end.

Some more - Carlos got knocked unconscious in Dead Beat
Thomas got strangled and possibly electrocuted by Elaine in WN

153
"Even Hand" Marcone, Gard and Hendricks all got knocked around, Justine had been kidnapped.
Justine got slashed in the abdomen by the Skinwalker in TC.

154
DF Reference Collection / Re: Harry Naming Things
« on: December 31, 2013, 07:50:55 PM »
Those who have never been renamed include
Karrin Murphy
Thomas Raith
Waldo Butters

did Harry come up with 'fist of God' for Michael?  Or was that someone else? 

155
DF Reference Collection / Re: Harry Naming Things
« on: December 31, 2013, 04:59:50 PM »
Some of those I would question, liek Grey Cloak and Passenger. He only called them that because he didn't know who they were. Names stick when you know who someone or something is, know their true name, but decided to rename them or give them a new name.

156
Site Suggestions & Support / Re: (Off Topic) I have to ask...
« on: December 26, 2013, 05:20:42 PM »
A mod would never remove a thread title completely. They might remove a sensitive word or phrase, but they would always leave something.

157
Site Suggestions & Support / Re: (Off Topic) I have to ask...
« on: December 26, 2013, 04:57:04 PM »
Ask b4utoo. He choose to remove the titles on his threads. They are still active, though. So, if you want to post to them I don't see any reason not to.

158
DF Spoilers / Re: Request help for finding recent topics here!
« on: December 15, 2013, 10:43:26 AM »
Thanks.  :)

159
DF Spoilers / Re: Request help for finding recent topics here!
« on: December 15, 2013, 05:31:10 AM »
Looking for the WOJ on the list of who can take down Mab. The one that includes the point about the Whole White Court and if they did they woudl get her power.

160
DF Reference Collection / Re: Suggest Topics Here!
« on: December 06, 2013, 02:19:02 AM »
Ok, if nothing else, the unlock should make it easier to pull the code from the old post.

If you didn't notice from my reply containing a reposting from my 2011 topic, this happens to be a subject I find important :)

Haven't forgotten,  plan on redoing this even better than before.

161
I didn't mean my post here to read hostile or dismissive of your effort and I apologise if it came across that way.

Reading those two quotes again, though, the one from chapter 29 of DB seems to admit of more than one possible interpretation, and to my mind, "I've seen the fruits of that kind of path"  followed by a bunch of examples of murder, suffering and misery skews towards Harry objecting to paths involving murder, suffering and misery rather than using necromancy specifically - I'd cite the main plot of FM as an example of a road paved in the corpses of innocents to what the people involved believed was a greater good, which Harry has previously encountered, that had nothing to do with necromancy.  On the other hand, I am at a loss for a way of reading "It had been used to preserve life, just as the magic I knew could be used either to protect or to destroy." compatible with regarding necromancy as an inherently corruptive force.

All magic has the potential to corrupt, though some  (like Necromancy) more so than others. How it is used, and by whom is just as important as the type of magic. However, certain magic (again like Necromancy), feeds into a need to kill people. Which is why it is far more corrupting than most other magic.

162
IIRC, there was also at one point a WoJ that the level of belief in magic for a wizard is such that they'd be flabbergasted if they attempted a familiar spell and it didn't work  (in the same way that vanilla mortals would be shocked if they dropped an object and it didn't fall).  That the reason magic works for them is that this is how they believe the world should work on a fundamental level. 

Which might help explain why killing with magic is bad: the wizard believes on a very deep level that that whatever/whoever they're killing isn't supposed to be alive.
Yeah, but if a wizard were to try to move something with telekinesis, for example, be it force or wind, or whatever, and that thing is actually securely anchored to the ground, it's not going to just up and move because they think it should.  It's one thing for their magic to fail, it's another for their magic to not give the effect they want.

JB/Harry has said that the magic must obey the laws of physics. Belief is important to make magic work, but even when it does it can't change the fundamental laws of nature. At least on Harry's level of ability.

163
He isn't tainted to the extent that it messes up his mind and judgement, in the way that, say, the Korean kid at the start of PG blatantly is.

We have evidence that using the force of magic that Harry normally uses, which is repeatedly described as a positive and life-driven/aspected/oriented force, for killing or warping people's minds is corrupting and perverting and messes up the caster.

We also have evidence that necromancy is a fundamentally different force.  Harry notes this in GP when looking at the black barbed-wire spell.  It isn't life-aspected, if anything it's death-aspected.

Therefore we have no reason to lump both forces together under the heading of "black magic" and expect them both to work the same way in every detail.

Sooo...then there is Grey Magic?

164
I'm not disagreeing with that point.  At all.

I am saying that the evidence of the first passage the Count quoted looks to me like using necromancy to actively save a life - the random gangster whose soul Kumori did something to so that it didn't leave his body and the hospital had a chance to get him back to a point where he could live - is not an inherently evil act, and Harry is realising and acknowledging that.

In DB, we see Grevane using necromancy in a crimes-against-individual-humans way - reanimating zombies left right and centre - and we do not see Cowl or Kumori do so; and my overall feeling from the book is that on the whole Harry finds Grevane to feel far fouler and more corrupt than Cowl and Kumori.

Corpstaker, too. But yeah, Cowl is dangerous but was not quite as blatantly evil as the other two. At least not until the ritual. That doesn't mean he's a nice person who isn't tainted.

165
The line in your first quote "if that dark power could be employed in whatever fashion its wielder chose, that made it no different from my own" strikes me as fairly definitive on that point.

Not at all. It seems fairly obvious to me that what Jim is going for there is that plans that involve killing innocents are evil, and then that following your own judgement regardless of the consequences is evil. (This latter from Harry I do take as irony.) Nothing in there specifiies that it's the mechanism you use to do those evil things that makes them bad; Harry would be just as disapproving of a mundane dictator with utopian fantasies that involved killing lots of innocent people, I reckon.

Non-evil, extenuating circumstances can exist to justify 'breaking' each of the laws. In theory. But just because you are convinced that you have to kill Hitler with magic to save millions of lives, doesn't mean you won't be tainted by it, doesn't mean that it's not "Black Magic".

Kumori was idealistic in her desire to use Necromancy to 'end death'. Harry pointed out to her, rightly so, that there are so many ways what she desired could turn wrong. That she was still harming innocents and sacrificing lives for a goal that, as well intentioned as she thought she was, as much as she tried to justify her actions, would still be twisted to evil.


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