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Messages - Kindler

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61
DF Spoilers / Re: Morgan Micro Fiction
« on: March 09, 2020, 08:28:07 PM »
19 pages out of 600 word short story. You nerds.
In my opinion, it's a 600-word short story with implications way beyond any other short he's ever written, with the possible exception of Backup and the explanation of the Oblivion War. This story puts Morgan's actions across the whole series in a totally new light and implies a level of familiarity that's totally unaddressed in the main series, and likely never will be. I mean, just that Morgan knew about Nemesis 10-20 years ago is a big deal, let alone the idea that he was supposed to look out for Harry because he promised Margaret.

On the other hand, I totally agree that many or most of us are nerds.

62
DF Spoilers / Re: LC and the Outer Gates
« on: March 05, 2020, 05:04:00 PM »
This is interesting, especially as Little Chicago goes (as far as I can remember) unmentioned except for a casual reference to the table with a cloth thrown over it.
EDIT: I meant to say in Turn Coat, the next book. I don't recall Harry even considering using it to track Thomas.

63
I vote Starborn as both a singular and a plural. Like deer. How did Justin have a Kung Fu grip on the idiot ball? As I see it, his mistake was not expecting Harry to skip school to check on Elaine. That's about it, unless you count not knowing how to program people through non-magical means.

We should keep in mind that Justin was "dirty" from the moment that he took Bob.

I count the fact that he went to enthrall them at all as grabbing the Idiot Ball. It was totally stupid and unnecessary, a completely hamfisted approach to getting what he wanted out of a pair of teenagers. Justin has never been characterized as stupid or shortsighted. Enthralling Harry and Elaine is both, in my opinion.

64
DF Spoilers / Re: Question about the Queens and the Mothers
« on: March 03, 2020, 08:33:58 PM »
Man, that WOJ has always made me wonder whether or not we've met the former Mother Summer. I think someone had a WAG that Mrs. Spunkelkrief (however you spell it—Harry's landlady) was Mother Summer originally. Anyone recall any random old ladies Harry's met on the page? Especially in Summer Knight, Proven Guilty, Small Favor, Cold Days, and Skin Game?

65
DF Spoilers / Re: Heinrich Kramer
« on: March 03, 2020, 08:29:25 PM »
The Thule Society is not nearly as interesting as sci-fi/fantasy writers make it out to be. Their real-world claim to fame is they started the whole Aryan Superiority thing in an organized way around 1918ish, and they were one of the organized sponsors of the party that became the Nazi party.

Thule's link to the occult is pretty lame. It's mostly that they believed in the Aryan ideal, pretty much worshiping the concept of Hyperborea. They therefore worshiped Odin (and it's why they played a lot of Wagner, who died like forty years before the Thule Society was created but who probably would've been happy to join). They were about as occult as people believe Freemasons are today. It also didn't last very long. It came and was dissolved in less than a decade, I think (someone can check the dates, I'm tired and ornery).

But yeah. They were the ones who put the antisemitism into politics in an organized way (it was already there, but obviously not to the extent that you see from Nazi Germany), and helped prop up the German Workers Party. When Hitler started taking control of the GWP and began turning into the National Socialist Party, he cut ties with the Thule Society. I think one of the founding members was even expelled from Germany under the same Aryan ideals the Thule Society promoted, which is funny until you realize how many other people had the same thing happen to them.

By the time Hitler was elected, the Thule Society had been gone for something like ten years (at least officially). I think I recall that Thule was an offshoot of a more occult-ish organization by one of the founders. But yeah, Thule was more Pagan than Occult. You frequently hear terms like "occult organization" and "mysticism" in connection with Thule, but I've never found any evidence of them doing anything even remotely connected with the Occult as I see the Occult. They weren't practicing magic. They were basically just racist Pagans who believed they could become Ubermensch through selective breeding and national pride.

66
DF Spoilers / Re: Time Travel in the Dresden Files
« on: March 03, 2020, 07:58:22 PM »
Man, where's Raidem when you need him?

67
DF Spoilers / Re: Morgan Micro Fiction
« on: February 26, 2020, 08:22:58 PM »
You've just blown the case wide open!  ;)

I can barely finish a 90 minute movie when I don't care about (or dislike when I'm supposed to like) the main character.

@123Chikadee: That's why I hedged a bit with "main characters" instead of just "main character."

I stuck with the Codex Alera 'cuz I liked Bernard, for example. I didn't particularly care for Tavi until Academ's Fury. Though part of that is Furies of Calderon takes about 150 pages to get decent. Once Second Calderon starts, it's good, but most of the book leading up to that is (in my opinion) pretty rough.

In fact, I'm back on a Butcher Binge in advance of Peace Talks, and started listening to the Codex Alera audiobooks again. Rather than start from the beginning, I picked up about 2/3rds-3/4ths of the way through, when Tavi and Kitai
(click to show/hide)
I had a way better time than when I listened to the Adventures of Isana in the Kitchen and The Drama that Happens in Front of the Fireplace and Tavi Throws Salt at Ghost Horses. (For anyone wondering, the Codex Alera audiobooks are pretty solid; the narration isn't quite as excellent as James Marsters post-Summer Knight, but it's on par or better than most of the other ones I've heard).

Contrast that with some other fantasy works, like the Forgotton Realms's Cleric Quintet. I liked Cadderly right off the bat, and he's pretty close to Tavi (archetype-wise, anyway).

Anyway, yeah. Sometimes the lead protagonists can be hit or miss. I lucked out with Dresden wherein I liked Harry and Bob from the getgo. I originally thought that Murphy might be an ongoing Obstructionist Bureaucrat Antagonist, and that maybe Marcone and Harry would end up being bros. I was at least half right about those. But then Michael showed up and the series went from check to check plus.

68
DF Spoilers / Re: Traitors
« on: February 13, 2020, 09:36:04 PM »
Haha, I know, I was just poking fun, because I could almost smell it coming.

69
DF Spoilers / Re: Peace talks excerpt indications
« on: February 13, 2020, 09:34:13 PM »
In the context of a Hero's Journey, it's the mentor you see that matters.
Uncle Owen taught Luke everything he knew, and presumably raised him to be a good guy. It worked. But Luke's first Hero's Journey Mentor is Obi-Wan, not his Aunt or Uncle.
Tavi's mentors are first Bernard (who we do see doing some mentoring) and later Gaius.

Mentors in the HJ are typically the ones you see set the Hero on a Path. We don't see much of that in Dresden, except from Mab. Maybe Lea (and we certainly see that with her relationship to Molly in Ghost Story), too. Eb's role is informed, not really shown. For the most part, Harry's set his own path.

70
DF Spoilers / Re: Morgan Micro Fiction
« on: February 13, 2020, 09:28:35 PM »
No, it's that he looked for Harry for years, but couldn't find him. He arrived at the scene of Malcolm's death 10 hours after Malcolm died. Harry was taken without a trace. Morgan couldn't find him for years, though he looked, and didn't see Harry again until after the White Council captured him post-Justin duel.

71
DF Spoilers / Re: Morgan Micro Fiction
« on: February 13, 2020, 09:22:45 PM »
I don't know if this has been asked before.  I don't really have time to look through 9 pages of history.

Morgan said he arrived 10 hours after Harry went into the foster care system.  I was under the impression from other stories that Harry was in an orphanage for several years before Justin adopted him.  Like, Malcolm died when he was six and Justin didn't adopt him until he was 9 or 10.

Yes, you're right. There's a several-year gap between Malcolm's death and Justin's adoption, during which Harry lived at the orphanage.

72
DF Spoilers / Re: Traitors
« on: February 13, 2020, 09:18:27 PM »
*Reads first post*
*Ctrl+F to see if Mira mentions Murphy as a traitor*
In seriousness, I think there are generally a lot of good thoughts in the thread. But my vote is Chandler, all the way. I find it a bit too suspicious that the guy who screws around with time remains the only "young" warden free during the Purge in Changes. I can see him developing quite a God Complex.

73
DF Spoilers / Re: Peace talks excerpt indications
« on: February 13, 2020, 09:14:25 PM »
The Dresden Files starts after Harry encounters his mentor and has perhaps already crossed the threshold. Honestly, the mentor in Storm Front is the film canister under the bed. There is probably a "mentor" moment in each book, and I don't think it's ever been Eb. Maybe, maybe, in Changes. Eb isn't Harry's "mentor" in the actual books. He's Harry's "mentor" in the Dresden Files prequel.

I've never been a big fan of "the Hero's Journey." It's always seemed like a horoscope description of plot. Vague enough to fit most all circumstances without being specific enough to be helpful or useful.

Ditto on both counts. I don't really see Eb as much of a mentor, because about 99.5% of his mentorship is informed rather than shown; it's all off-page.

Nor do I really see the Dresden Files truly matching a Hero's Journey anyway. For one, it starts off with Dresden too far along in his career, abilities, and personality/idealism for it to truly apply, in my opinion.

If anyone is Harry's mentor in the books, on the page, I'd say it's Mab, actually.

74
DF Spoilers / Re: Morgan Micro Fiction
« on: February 13, 2020, 09:07:15 PM »
So I've been slowly reading this thread when I have the time over the past few days. I think I'm reading a few bits of the story differently than some (maybe all) of you.

First, I want to say that I think this is the best short story Jim's written so far, if for no other reason than I don't think any other story upended so much of the existing plot in such a small space. Maybe Thomas's bit about the Oblivion War, but even that doesn't alter my view of Thomas as much as this messes with my view of Morgan.

One very important part where I think my reading is different from many of you:

Quote
Malcolm died while I was on mission elsewhere. I arrived less than ten hours after the child went into the foster care system, and someone made him vanish. Magically, physically, bureaucratically. There was no trace of him, and I searched for years.

That bastard Justin DuMorne got to him before I could.

From then on, we could not be sure that the child was not molded to be a creature of Nemesis.

I read this as indicated the order of events were as follows:

1. Morgan goes away on some kind of job. We don't know what it was, but it's not really important (though maybe Justin arranged for the Big Bad Warden to be elsewhere).
2. Malcolm is murdered (not even really up for debate at this point, in my opinion; too many clues otherwise).
3. Someone absconded with Harry. When he says "someone made him vanish. Magically, physically, bureaucratically," I take it that there was no trace of which orphanage Harry went to. He was shipped off somewhere, and left there for years.
4. Justin adopts him. Morgan's line "That bastard Justin DuMorne got to him before I could" implies, to me, that Morgan thought Justin found him, not necessarily that Justin hid him in the first place. My reading is that Morgan is only commenting on Justin's adoption of Harry, not on Harry's original disappearance.

This final line: "From then on, we could not be sure that the child was not molded to be a creature of Nemesis." To me, this only means that Morgan is speaking with hindsight. I don't believe that anyone knew that Justin had adopted Harry OR Elaine, let alone both. I don't think Justin was even really on their radar very much at this point, unless it was as a fugitive.

So I see two possibilities:
1. The White Council and Morgan thought that Justin was just a retired warden chilling out in a mansion somewhere. No real need to keep tabs on him too closely.
2. The White Council and/or Morgan knew that Justin was a bad guy mixed up with Nemesis in some way, and Justin was therefore living in Hiding.

I tend to think it's the second possibility. It would make sense, to me, that Justin caught wind that the White Council had tracked him down, and were closing in on him. I've thought for several years that Justin's indoctrination of Harry and Elaine would've been way more effective without resorting to magic, and that it doesn't really make sense to brute force your way into making a pair of teenagers thralls. Cults do it just fine without magic, and then you've got the benefit of fanaticism. So I think that he found out that the WC was coming for him, and resorted to the brute force method because he'd have to go on the run.

75
DF Spoilers / Re: Peace talks excerpt indications
« on: January 29, 2020, 08:44:49 PM »
I don't generally read horror, because I personally dislike gore. I prefer fear over squick. Like, I'll never watch or even be able to enjoy stuff like Hostel or Saw (after the first one, anyway), because I mostly just find it gross rather than scary. I remember when Fear Factor was first airing, and like half of the "challenges" were "eat this bucket of spiders." Not exactly measuring fear there.

But genuine fear, tension, and horrifying suspense? Hell yeah, I'm on board. I remember reading 'Salem's Lot at three in the morning by candlelight. I spent the whole night holding a cross and keeping one eye on my bedroom window. I didn't move until the sun came up.

Lovecraft doesn't usually illicit that strong of a fear response for me. I mostly read it because I find it terribly interesting. Most of it is unsettling rather than scary, in my opinion.

BUT! If you're not into hopelessness, you're not into hopelessness!

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