Author Topic: True Love's Protection  (Read 1056 times)

Offline Mira

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Re: True Love's Protection
« Reply #45 on: Yesterday at 07:48:27 PM »
Mirror Mirror isn't a time travel book and our Harry doesn't choose to go. The alternate Harry pulls him. Book 22 is going to be the time travel book so Jim can go back and fix all the continuity errors.
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Thanks, I only know what I have read here and time travel was one of the possibilities, suggested for Mirror.   

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And WoJ has stated that the "True Love" protection can only arise between two equals, not from an unequal relation (such as parent/child, etc); any form of dependence prevents it.  I don't think Lasciel's Shadow -- nor "Lash" -- can in any way be a "equal" to Harry, as she was wholly-dependent on Harry for her very existence.

Define "equals" in a relationship.  I wouldn't call Harry and Susan equals nor Harry and Murphy, and honestly were Justine and Thomas really equals?   If dependence prevents the protection, then there was a problem in all three of the above cases.  You could say that Murphy/Harry may have been the most equal, but in a lot of ways not.

Offline Bad Alias

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Re: True Love's Protection
« Reply #46 on: Yesterday at 09:00:05 PM »
There are a lot of people here who keep saying it's a time travel book. I don't know why.

Alternate universe, Evil Harry brings Harries over to take the fall for him
 (I've always thought he leaves their bodies behind). The difference is caused by a choice "near the end of Grave Peril." The Red Court won the war.

Offline LaraBeck

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Re: True Love's Protection
« Reply #47 on: Yesterday at 09:30:38 PM »
There are a lot of people here who keep saying it's a time travel book. I don't know why.

Alternate universe, Evil Harry brings Harries over to take the fall for him
 (I've always thought he leaves their bodies behind). The difference is caused by a choice "near the end of Grave Peril." The Red Court won the war.

Yeah, I'm not sure why exactly but Mirror Mirror always gets confused with the Time Travel book, which now we know is going to be, most likely, book 22.

Yeah, but... That's why there has been problems with the concept from the start!  How do you define true love?  Harry may feel self loathing at the moment, he is grieving, he feels guilt about all the people that died under his banner that allowed him to fight.  He feels guilty because he wasn't able to keep Murphy physically out of the fight, though it was Mab's banner that made it possible, and ultimately Murphy's choice.. Having said that, what does that have to do with true love? Harry still believes he truly loved Murphy, and whether he thinks he deserves it or not, how does that change Murphy's supposed true love for him?  I say it doesn't, true love isn't a logical emotion, often it defies logic!

So no, I don't think Harry's current feelings of guilt and self-loathing over what has recently happened to him and his actions have anything to do with him not being protected.

I would agree up until this point.

I do belive what Harry and Murphy had was True Love™, I mean, to me if what Susan and Harry had was by canon standards was, Harry and Murphy better had it too, it was, IMO, a much more believable love story.

The way I see, there are two answers for why we're seeing the seed of doubt in Twelve Months:
1. There's something nefarious going on, something that Mab is doing. I mean, I wouldn't be surprised at this point. Harry's feeling of self-loathing are not enough.
2. Jim messed up. He wants to shoehorn in the relationship with Lara and he realized he made a mistake by announcing that Harry and Murphy had True Love™ in Peace Talks (he could have just not put it there and it would have been one of those things that make Harry and Murphy's story more tragic. I honestly don't think he cared that much about what "shippers" had to say about that or we wouldn't be here in the first place).

Personally, I want to believe is the first one, I know it's probably the second one, which makes me lose a lot of respect for him. This is not a minor detail in the series, IMO.

Because we now know that Harry and Lash 'conceived' Bonea in a moment of love and connection that gave rise to new life. Harry has love for Susan, but the being he went home and wept for that night was Lash. And she let herself be destroyed for the love of him, saving him from Lasciel's damnation. That interaction was what shielded Harry from the Hunger that night.

It's not possible. 1. Jim has stated that there is both a physical component and a spiritual component to the True Love™ protection settling in place, and it is born out of mutual love.

2. Harry was never in love with Las or "loved" her as a woman/partner. They were not in a romantic relationship. As far as what's on the page, he cared for her, they were friends.
I've seen some takes that Bonea was created by Harry having a sort of secret relationship with Lash in his head but his own AlternaHarry (ID Harry) tells him in Skin Game that he's been a fool for not taking her up on her "offers" of sexual intimacy. Bonea was born of an act of love, yes, sacrifice, Lash sacrifice out of love for Harry, whether romantic or not, but it was pretty much unilateral. They didn't act together.

And WoJ has stated that the "True Love" protection can only arise between two equals, not from an unequal relation (such as parent/child, etc); any form of dependence prevents it.

This. It is a matter of two consenting adults giving to one another in equal measure.

Offline Mira

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Re: True Love's Protection
« Reply #48 on: Yesterday at 10:31:07 PM »
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I do belive what Harry and Murphy had was True Love™, I mean, to me if what Susan and Harry had was by canon standards was, Harry and Murphy better had it too, it was, IMO, a much more believable love story.

  I think there were problems with both relationships.  I am not saying what Harry felt for Susan wasn't true love, he was protected after all.  However I have problems with whether or not she felt it for him. Murphy's original reason for not wanting to have a relationship with Harry is very valid, and that hadn't changed by the time she died.  I just think that though she enjoyed the sexual relationship and the excitement of going into battle with Harry, I think in the back of her mind it was lurking.  "When I am an elderly 80, Harry will be still a young wizard in his prime." 

Offline Bad Alias

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Re: True Love's Protection
« Reply #49 on: Yesterday at 10:47:56 PM »
However I have problems with whether or not she felt it for him. Murphy's original reason for not wanting to have a relationship with Harry is very valid, and that hadn't changed by the time she died.
The problems were never whether or not she loved Harry.

"When I am an elderly 80, Harry will be still a young wizard in his prime."
That's the one thing from her Proven Guilty speech I never agreed with.

And we know they had True Love because Harry burned Lara in Peace Talks.