Thomas

[Dina]

 
I really hope there is a baby and he or she is safe.

[g33k]

... I think the Hunger won but it could be reverted... 

Say rather, the Hunger is in the lead right now.
It hasn't "won."

Thomas still sees Harry as a trusted ally, still loves Harry (and Justine).

[Dina]

Yes, I like that.

[Mira]

Thomas still sees Harry as a trusted ally, still loves Harry (and Justine).

  The same in many ways could be said for Lara, however she remains a dangerous vampire with the values that go with it.
   More clearly Thomas is now like having a pet tiger in your house.  No, I am not saying that Thomas is in any way a pet.  What I am saying is that pet tiger might trust that you will feed him and care for him, he might even show affection for you.. However that tiger is still a tiger and has reverted back to what nature intended, and you can't trust that he won't turn and eat you some day.  I believe that is what Eb is trying to tell Harry.

[Talby16]

  The same in many ways could be said for Lara, however she remains a dangerous vampire with the values that go with it.
   More clearly Thomas is now like having a pet tiger in your house.  No, I am not saying that Thomas is in any way a pet.  What I am saying is that pet tiger might trust that you will feed him and care for him, he might even show affection for you.. However that tiger is still a tiger and has reverted back to what nature intended, and you can't trust that he won't turn and eat you some day.  I believe that is what Eb is trying to tell Harry.

I would contend that Lara sees Harry as a trusted enemy not ally. Someone you know can turn on you, but you also can trust them to act a certain way. In Harry's case, he is a know white knight that has a strong moral compass. Lara knows what strings she can pull to get a certain response out of Harry. It will be interesting to see how this might change in Twelve Months.

[Mira]

I would contend that Lara sees Harry as a trusted enemy not ally. Someone you know can turn on you, but you also can trust them to act a certain way. In Harry's case, he is a know white knight that has a strong moral compass. Lara knows what strings she can pull to get a certain response out of Harry. It will be interesting to see how this might change in Twelve Months.

 It isn't about Lara or Thomas trusting Harry, they can.. It's about Harry trusting them.  It isn't a matter of morality either, back to the pet tiger analogy, as much as you love it and believe you can trust it, if it is hungry enough, it's natural instinct wins, and it could eat you.  Vampires do what vampires do, that is what Eb is telling Harry.  Now whether this is from Eb's own personal trauma, as in one killing his wife, or from the general experience and knowledge of his 200 plus years we haven't been told yet.

[LordDresden2]

It isn't about Lara or Thomas trusting Harry, they can.. It's about Harry trusting them.  It isn't a matter of morality either, back to the pet tiger analogy, as much as you love it and believe you can trust it, if it is hungry enough, it's natural instinct wins, and it could eat you.  Vampires do what vampires do, that is what Eb is telling Harry.  Now whether this is from Eb's own personal trauma, as in one killing his wife, or from the general experience and knowledge of his 200 plus years we haven't been told yet.

Yes.  I like the 'pet tiger' analogy, it really fits in many ways.  Every now and then you hear about a tragedy where somebody who thought they had tamed a wild predator finds out the hard way that it's still what it is.  As the late Rush Limbaugh was fond of saying, "A snake is always a snake, a tiger is always a tiger."  Even when the wild animal is safe enough around its owner, it can be dangerous to others, such as that case a few years ago where a pet chimp tore a visitor's face apart.  Plus those incidents where a pet python gets out of its container...

Now since Thomas is also a human being, his sapient mind can restrain the animalistic predator...as long as it doesn't get too hungry.  But once it crosses that line, it can override the human and go hunting, and any human available is prey.

En and Bob have both warned Harry about this, but it's not a message he wants to hear.

[Tinfoil hat]

I would contend that Lara sees Harry as a trusted enemy not ally. Someone you know can turn on you, but you also can trust them to act a certain way. In Harry's case, he is a know white knight that has a strong moral compass. Lara knows what strings she can pull to get a certain response out of Harry. It will be interesting to see how this might change in Twelve Months.

To quote Codex alera Harry is her Gadara. Sorry couldn't resist their are a few places were my jim butcher books knowledge to use.
 

Yes.  I like the 'pet tiger' analogy, it really fits in many ways.  Every now and then you hear about a tragedy where somebody who thought they had tamed a wild predator finds out the hard way that it's still what it is.  As the late Rush Limbaugh was fond of saying, "A snake is always a snake, a tiger is always a tiger."  Even when the wild animal is safe enough around its owner, it can be dangerous to others, such as that case a few years ago where a pet chimp tore a visitor's face apart.  Plus those incidents where a pet python gets out of its container...

Now since Thomas is also a human being, his sapient mind can restrain the animalistic predator...as long as it doesn't get too hungry.  But once it crosses that line, it can override the human and go hunting, and any human available is prey.

En and Bob have both warned Harry about this, but it's not a message he wants to hear.

Harry is blinded by love. Think about how many red flags in family and friends we over look.
How many toxic family members we still cling to and toxic friends we defend.
Thomas the human partbis a good guy. And harry sees only that part. He cant imagine Thomas the vampire or he cant allow himself to see that part.
The pet tiger imagery is good but how about a violent big dog. You know the breeds which everyonce in a while is in the news for biting kids, neighbors and owners. And which we the owners of said dogs defend as being innocent and friendly but misunderstood.

[g33k]

... Harry is blinded by love...

I don't think he is; not really.

... Thomas the human partbis a good guy. And harry sees only that part. He cant imagine Thomas the vampire or he cant allow himself to see that part ...

Remember:  he has Seen the Hunger Demon inside Thomas.
Seen it in a way he cannot un-See.

Harry has seen Thomas lose control (and knows how to deal with Thomas losing control).  And when he knows Thomas is stressed/injured & close to the edge, he takes extra care.  We saw him with Susan, feeding her a bit of blood that she needed, but then punching her in the face to stop her feeding. 
Harry just chooses to believe that Thomas is mostly going to continue to be worthy of Harry's trust.

And let's face it:  most people are occasionally un-trustworthy... this "problem" isn't unique to Thomas!  About 90% of American adults have drivers' licenses, and when behind the wheel they are one moment of rage (or simple inattention) away from hitting someone harder than Thomas ever could.  Yet we drive public highways & walk down sidewalks by the millions, daily...
 
Everybody human is fallible.  We can all do tremendous damage, in a critical moment, if we do fail.  Hell, Harry himself can do more damage than Thomas could!  Harry's entirely cognizant of this.  We need to extend trust, if we're to be trustworthy ourselves:  if we treat everyone else, at all times, as if they were on the verge of being their worst selves, that'd be a terrible way to act and to live.

[Mira]

Harry is blinded by love. Think about how many red flags in family and friends we over look.
How many toxic family members we still cling to and toxic friends we defend.
Thomas the human partbis a good guy. And harry sees only that part. He cant imagine Thomas the vampire or he cant allow himself to see that part.
The pet tiger imagery is good but how about a violent big dog. You know the breeds which everyonce in a while is in the news for biting kids, neighbors and owners. And which we the owners of said dogs defend as being innocent and friendly but misunderstood.

That is very true with dogs and their owners, because often the beloved pet dog is good with the owner and the immediate family but has problems with other dogs or people.  The owner of the dog has a very hard time dealing with the truth.  Actually it can be true of parents as well, very difficult to admit that your child has some serious problems sometimes.

[Talby16]

I don't think he is; not really.
Remember:  he has Seen the Hunger Demon inside Thomas.
Seen it in a way he cannot un-See.

Harry has seen Thomas lose control (and knows how to deal with Thomas losing control).  And when he knows Thomas is stressed/injured & close to the edge, he takes extra care.  We saw him with Susan, feeding her a bit of blood that she needed, but then punching her in the face to stop her feeding. 
Harry just chooses to believe that Thomas is mostly going to continue to be worthy of Harry's trust.

And let's face it:  most people are occasionally un-trustworthy... this "problem" isn't unique to Thomas!  About 90% of American adults have drivers' licenses, and when behind the wheel they are one moment of rage (or simple inattention) away from hitting someone harder than Thomas ever could.  Yet we drive public highways & walk down sidewalks by the millions, daily...
 
Everybody human is fallible.  We can all do tremendous damage, in a critical moment, if we do fail.  Hell, Harry himself can do more damage than Thomas could!  Harry's entirely cognizant of this.  We need to extend trust, if we're to be trustworthy ourselves:  if we treat everyone else, at all times, as if they were on the verge of being their worst selves, that'd be a terrible way to act and to live.

This concept of extending trust and help is a major component of the books. We see very plainly in Skin Game where Murphy challenges Butters with his perception of Harry. He sees someone who is different from what he remembers and could be evil now. His perception is coloring his actions towards Harry. She sees a man fighting for his soul. She is asking him to extend Harry trust and help saying that if they treat him like he is the bad guy they will mold him into the bad guy.

[Dina]

Yes.
I do not think Harry is blinded by his love for Thomas. He may be a little overconfident because he know he is a powerful wizard and the WK so he thinks he can take a vampire if needed. He is right about that, he can, but there is a chance of Thomas catching him off-guard. A sneak attack can be lethal. But beyond that, I think Harry knows how dangerous can be Thomas, even for his allies. That said, I do not think Thomas would actually kill Harry. He may hurt him if he sees him as a threat, but even hungry I do not think he would kill Harry.

[Mira]

Yes.
I do not think Harry is blinded by his love for Thomas. He may be a little overconfident because he know he is a powerful wizard and the WK so he thinks he can take a vampire if needed. He is right about that, he can, but there is a chance of Thomas catching him off-guard. A sneak attack can be lethal. But beyond that, I think Harry knows how dangerous can be Thomas, even for his allies. That said, I do not think Thomas would actually kill Harry. He may hurt him if he sees him as a threat, but even hungry I do not think he would kill Harry.

I don't think Harry is completely blind about Thomas either, however of all of those judging Thomas, including Eb, Harry is the only one who has ever soul gazed Thomas.  He understands how Thomas struggles.