Thomas

[Talby16]

  I see that soul gaze struggle between Thomas and himself as a struggle for his soul.  His vanilla human half struggling to remain human and his demon wanting to take over..  I think all of human Thomas will remain if the demon is removed, but we saw that image also in the soul gaze.  A slight human with glasses, physically more like Butters than the physical hunk he has been all of his life.  The question then becomes, can Thomas deal with being a mere ordinary vanilla human?

That is an excellent question. Thomas may hate his demon, but does he comprehend who he will be without it? Gone are the good looks and the perfect skin. No more super strength or endurance. Thomas will not be able to help his brother in the same way that he is accustomed to. He has said that he wishes his demon gone, but has he lived to long with it to fully enjoy life without it?

[Mira]

That is an excellent question. Thomas may hate his demon, but does he comprehend who he will be without it? Gone are the good looks and the perfect skin. No more super strength or endurance. Thomas will not be able to help his brother in the same way that he is accustomed to. He has said that he wishes his demon gone, but has he lived to long with it to fully enjoy life without it?

Lara understands that, and loves what she is, accepts what she is.. Thomas hadn't fully until the Skinwalker got a hold of him.
Thomas changed and seemingly made a choice, interesting scene at the zoo at the end of Turncoat.  Harry appalled because Thomas told him he enjoyed what he was doing after a while.  Actually Lara was delighted with that outcome and didn't want Harry messing with Thomas on that score..

We never got to see that struggle for the heart and mind of Thomas between Lara and Harry.  Or Harry having to come to grips that his brother was now no different from other vampires now.  I was disappointed that we didn't.

[Talby16]

Lara understands that, and loves what she is, accepts what she is.. Thomas hadn't fully until the Skinwalker got a hold of him.
Thomas changed and seemingly made a choice, interesting scene at the zoo at the end of Turncoat.  Harry appalled because Thomas told him he enjoyed what he was doing after a while.  Actually Lara was delighted with that outcome and didn't want Harry messing with Thomas on that score..

We never got to see that struggle for the heart and mind of Thomas between Lara and Harry.  Or Harry having to come to grips that his brother was now no different from other vampires now.  I was disappointed that we didn't.

I agree that Turncoat brought about a change for Thomas, but we still see glimpses of who he was before that book. His relationship with Justine being a prime example. If he had truly gone all the way back into the fold and become a "good little vampire" then he should have kicked Justine to the curb and gone to disposable lovers.

[Mira]

I agree that Turncoat brought about a change for Thomas, but we still see glimpses of who he was before that book. His relationship with Justine being a prime example. If he had truly gone all the way back into the fold and become a "good little vampire" then he should have kicked Justine to the curb and gone to disposable lovers.

  I understand that, and that is what I find disappointing!  We never saw that developmental progress in Thomas!  I would have loved to have seen Thomas as a full hard assed predator for at least one full book, and Harry and Justine trying to deal with that! 

[Talby16]

  I understand that, and that is what I find disappointing!  We never saw that developmental progress in Thomas!  I would have loved to have seen Thomas as a full hard assed predator for at least one full book, and Harry and Justine trying to deal with that!

Maybe we can get a short story along the lines of what you said or maybe he has to pretend to be the full predator to throw Lara off his scent and we could still get a glimpse of the White Court nightlife.

[Mira]

Maybe we can get a short story along the lines of what you said or maybe he has to pretend to be the full predator to throw Lara off his scent and we could still get a glimpse of the White Court nightlife.

I think it is a bit late for a short story, not that it wouldn't be nice but now it would have no impact. 

[Talby16]

I think it is a bit late for a short story, not that it wouldn't be nice but now it would have no impact.

Yes and no. It would not have a big narrative impact since we are past that point in the storyline. It could still have a big emotional impact. For example, the microfiction Goodbye detailing Kincaids goodbye to Ivy as he heads off to kill Harry was not released until 2020 in the lead up to Peace Talks. Narratively we were far beyond that point story-wise, but the story was still an emotional gut punch. A short story detailing Thomas' struggles with his return to the predator lifestyle could also tug at the heart strings especially as it relates to Justine since we now know that Justine is nemfected.

[Mira]

Yes and no. It would not have a big narrative impact since we are past that point in the storyline. It could still have a big emotional impact. For example, the microfiction Goodbye detailing Kincaids goodbye to Ivy as he heads off to kill Harry was not released until 2020 in the lead up to Peace Talks. Narratively we were far beyond that point story-wise, but the story was still an emotional gut punch. A short story detailing Thomas' struggles with his return to the predator lifestyle could also tug at the heart strings especially as it relates to Justine since we now know that Justine is nemfected.

  Nothing was wrong about the timing of the short story about when Kincaid said good bye to Ivy.  Because the point of the story in my opinion was the emotional change in Ivy and the two people in her life that she had an emotional connection to.  Something the Archive, for her sanity is supposed to look up to.  Kincaid was her body guard, but in many ways he was a surrogate father to her, and whether he'd admit to it or not had those kinds of feelings towards her.  Harry gave her her name, and like Kincaid saw her as a little girl more than the Archive.. Ivy felt affection for both men and felt betrayed by Harry wanting to take his own life, and by Kincaid willing to take it for a price.  With that she shut herself off from both men emotionally and became what the Archive is supposed to be. 

While yes, as a character Ivy is important, she isn't as important to the story as Thomas is.  There is a huge gap in his development as a character between Turn Coat and Changes, that disappoints me.

[Talby16]

  Nothing was wrong about the timing of the short story about when Kincaid said good bye to Ivy.  Because the point of the story in my opinion was the emotional change in Ivy and the two people in her life that she had an emotional connection to.  Something the Archive, for her sanity is supposed to look up to.  Kincaid was her body guard, but in many ways he was a surrogate father to her, and whether he'd admit to it or not had those kinds of feelings towards her.  Harry gave her her name, and like Kincaid saw her as a little girl more than the Archive.. Ivy felt affection for both men and felt betrayed by Harry wanting to take his own life, and by Kincaid willing to take it for a price.  With that she shut herself off from both men emotionally and became what the Archive is supposed to be. 

While yes, as a character Ivy is important, she isn't as important to the story as Thomas is.  There is a huge gap in his development as a character between Turn Coat and Changes, that disappoints me.

I agree that the short story did an excellent job of exploring the dynamic between Kincaid and Ivy and laying the groundwork for ramifications of that fallout with both Kincaid and Harry in future books. All of this despite this story taking place during Changes and being released 3 books and 10 years after the fact. I think that something similar could be done with Thomas. We can go back and time and look at a period of his life where he is balancing his "newly" found predatory lifestyle and how that is integrated with his relationship with Justine. All to give a greater depth to future events like Thomas and his guilt when he is released from the crystal, Thomas and the hunt for the nemfected Justine, and/or a confrontation between Thomas and a nemfected Justine.

[Regenbogen]

I am almost convinced that either Butters' sword will kill the Hunger Demon or that Harry will find a way to release only Thomas' human part from Demonreach, separating him from the Hunger Demon. This would mean, the Hunger would stay in stasis.

Either way, I think Jim will write it so that Thomas becomes human. I think, in Jim's opinion Thomas' character has become boring and it needs some "juice", not in form of a power upgrade, but as some sort of downgrade and to show his struggles in finding a new purpose and identity. Especially now that Thomas has seemingly come to accept his vampire nature and found a way to live with it.

Thomas in story has mostly been additional muscle with banter and family bonus and vampire troubles.
But there is so much more to him. All the internal struggles, the difficult family situation (Papa Raith, White Court, wizard descendant) makes him interesting, but this has mostly been in the background and only brought into light when it was important for the story. I think it's a pity: there is so much more to Thomas than just the pretty muscle with some deniable problems. Deniable is not my opinion, it's just how it feels to me that Harry sometimes behaves toward his brother. I was a bit shocked at his dismissive reaction to Thomas revealing that Justine was pregnant.

So I think, he will become fully human, maybe during his time of adjustment, he finds out that he has a little magical talent, maybe not. Maybe it's just weak like some paranetters.
And there is of course still the Justine situation: there will be grief, a search going on for the woman and the baby and who knows how this will turn out.

And then, but not too soon, he will find out that he was meant for Amoraccius from the beginning.

Thomas taking up the sword after becoming human is in my opinion the only solution for him to stay in Harry's world, to become "useful" again. From the story's perspective. 
The other would be becoming a wizard, but I don't think his talent would be relevant in future events, meaning the BAT, Outsiders breaking through the Gates and so on. But the Sword of Love will be.

[Mira]

Thomas taking up the sword after becoming human is in my opinion the only solution for him to stay in Harry's world, to become "useful" again. From the story's perspective.
The other would be becoming a wizard, but I don't think his talent would be relevant in future events, meaning the BAT, Outsiders breaking through the Gates and so on. But the Sword of Love will be.

I agree, and that will be good, but I am still disappointed because the first part of that story is missing.  I think too much page time was wasted on the Harry/Murphy romance that could have spent on Thomas.. I know I will get slammed for that, but Murphy had very good reasons for her and Harry not to get together and she stated them back in Proven Guilty.. She might have still be alive even if she had continued as one of Harry's best friends and kick ass supporters, actually that was refreshing! 

[Talby16]

So I think, he will become fully human, maybe during his time of adjustment, he finds out that he has a little magical talent, maybe not. Maybe it's just weak like some paranetters.
And there is of course still the Justine situation: there will be grief, a search going on for the woman and the baby and who knows how this will turn out.

And then, but not too soon, he will find out that he was meant for Amoraccius from the beginning.

Thomas taking up the sword after becoming human is in my opinion the only solution for him to stay in Harry's world, to become "useful" again. From the story's perspective. 
The other would be becoming a wizard, but I don't think his talent would be relevant in future events, meaning the BAT, Outsiders breaking through the Gates and so on. But the Sword of Love will be.

Just as a side note, Thomas already has some magical talent. Here is a WOJ:

‘Are there White Court vampire wizards?’
Yes, there are. Thomas is middle-of-the-road in power and [ed: think I’m remembering this correctly] the strongest don’t get as strong as mortal wizards [/ed], but they can pull off some strong tricks with their Hunger.

In addition, in the short story where Thomas has to fight in the Oblivion War, Thomas uses a tracking spell to find Harry and mentions that he (Thomas) views magic like a mechanic or a plumber (I forget which) whereas Harry views magic as a higher purpose. If Thomas does decided to pursue magic more it would be interesting to see his viewpoint on magic change.

[Regenbogen]

Just as a side note, Thomas already has some magical talent. Here is a WOJ:
In addition, in the short story where Thomas has to fight in the Oblivion War, Thomas uses a tracking spell to find Harry and mentions that he (Thomas) views magic like a mechanic or a plumber (I forget which) whereas Harry views magic as a higher purpose. If Thomas does decided to pursue magic more it would be interesting to see his viewpoint on magic change.

Cool, thanks for the WoJ.
Yes, I do remember Thomas using tracking spells. This sounds as if magical ability in WCVs can only go to a certain level. Could be suppressed by the Hunger Demon. That's why I think, he might have magic, but not to which extent. But I am not sure if he has used his abilities enough for the magic not to "dry out", like it did in Charity.

Ok, Charity didn't use her magic at all for years and I think Thomas uses his more regularly, though only occasional tracking spells.

And yes, it will be interesting to see how and if his viewpoint would change if he can no longer rely on his vampire powers.

[Mira]

Cool, thanks for the WoJ.
Yes, I do remember Thomas using tracking spells. This sounds as if magical ability in WCVs can only go to a certain level. Could be suppressed by the Hunger Demon. That's why I think, he might have magic, but not to which extent. But I am not sure if he has used his abilities enough for the magic not to "dry out", like it did in Charity.

Ok, Charity didn't use her magic at all for years and I think Thomas uses his more regularly, though only occasional tracking spells.

And yes, it will be interesting to see how and if his viewpoint would change if he can no longer rely on his vampire powers.

Yes, I remember Thomas using that tracking spell as well, though if I remember correctly, he said it was a pretty basic skill akin to Butters being able to do a protective magic circle.  However that being said, Thomas might be just being modest. Or his talent was never allowed to show itself and develop because the last thing Lord Raith would have wanted was one of his sons to have magical talent and kick his ass with it some day.  Especially if Thomas was aware that Lord Raith murdered his mother, like Harry, he would want revenge.  It just makes sense genetically that Thomas would be born with some talent considering his mother, grandfather, and brother are or were powerful wizards.  Thomas may not have the magical talent of his half brother, mother, or grandfather but he could be on the level of the members of the Paranet.  It would explain his connection to them  as a protector, also Elaine may have taught him what magic he does know.

[Talby16]

However that being said, Thomas might be just being modest. Or his talent was never allowed to show itself and develop because the last thing Lord Raith would have wanted was one of his sons to have magical talent and kick his ass with it some day.  Especially if Thomas was aware that Lord Raith murdered his mother, like Harry, he would want revenge.  It just makes sense genetically that Thomas would be born with some talent considering his mother, grandfather, and brother are or were powerful wizards.

I can definitely see Lord Raith actively discouraging Thomas and/or trying to prevent Thomas from learning magic. To keep him weaker and thus easier to dispose of, out of fear because of what Maggie Sr did to him, and as a means of control over Thomas.

Cool, thanks for the WoJ.
Yes, I do remember Thomas using tracking spells. This sounds as if magical ability in WCVs can only go to a certain level. Could be suppressed by the Hunger Demon. That's why I think, he might have magic, but not to which extent. But I am not sure if he has used his abilities enough for the magic not to "dry out", like it did in Charity.

Ok, Charity didn't use her magic at all for years and I think Thomas uses his more regularly, though only occasional tracking spells.

And yes, it will be interesting to see how and if his viewpoint would change if he can no longer rely on his vampire powers.

Charity was actively denying/suppressing her powers out of shame. Thomas spent time and effort to learn how to at least do a tracking spell and has used it actively. We don't know how often. We don't know what other spells he may know. If his vampiric nature is stripped away and he is fully human, I agree that it would make sense for him to explore his magical talents more. This would allow him to still fight the good fight and not shift away from the supernatural completely. It sets up an interesting scenario of Harry having to train him and them butting heads.