The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Warden of Demonreach: Dragoncon lore-dump or retcon??!?
g33k:
--- Quote from: Mira on September 12, 2024, 05:16:02 PM --- ... something doesn't add up for Kemmler to have been Warden when he was killed.. Or that he had ever been Warden at all ...
--- End quote ---
And yet, WoJ is very clear and specific: Kemmler was indeed Demonreach's Warden (though we don't know for how long).
Mira:
--- Quote from: g33k on September 12, 2024, 07:52:11 PM ---And yet, WoJ is very clear and specific: Kemmler was indeed Demonreach's Warden (though we don't know for how long).
--- End quote ---
That's the thing isn't it? Here is a tin hat theory; Maybe Kemmler was for a time, but he was corrupted by the inmates and corrupted and tempted by the power of the leyline and used it before he was ready to handle it. Remember the warning about the use of the leyline before he was ready that Rashid gave to Harry? Though Rashid wasn't specific about what would happen if he used it prematurely, except they weren't good. So if Kemmler used the leyline underestimating his own power, and not perhaps being a star born, the results were such that Alfred threw him off the island and he was no longer Warden. However Kemmler still retained lingering strength from it to draw upon to do his necromancy and pursue his other evil pursuits.
g33k:
--- Quote from: Mira on September 12, 2024, 05:16:02 PM --- ... it was a credible threat because Harry was Warden as of Turn Coat, he just didn't know it ...
--- End quote ---
Harry threatened Mab with prison at the end of Cold Days, I think -- well after TC -- so Harry was very-much aware of the Warden role; but that isn't the point here.
The point is a very-short logic chain:
1/ Harry issued a command to Alfred to be carried out in the event of Harry's death.
2/ If Warden-specific stuff expires when the Warden expires, Mab wouldn't have seen the threat as credible; but she did.
3/ Therefore, at least some of Demonreach's Warden-stuff survives the death of the Warden.
Presumably, it eventually expires (if everything could be on-tap all the time, I presume it would be, and the Island's defenses wouldn't have been so lax at the time Harry became Warden); hence my speculation above, regarding "year and a day" or the like.
Mira:
--- Quote ---1/ Harry issued a command to Alfred to be carried out in the event of Harry's death.
--- End quote ---
Maybe a technicality here, but still important, when the order was given, Harry was a very alive Warden. So the order was, if Harry is killed by Mab, immediately put her in the slammer.. The order given by a very alive Warden, so I'd say it was still good, given what the order was.
--- Quote ---2/ If Warden-specific stuff expires when the Warden expires, Mab wouldn't have seen the threat as credible; but she did.
--- End quote ---
I think it goes to wording, Harry issued the order and Alfred began to move or indicate that he was ready to move if Mab made any move against Harry. Beyond that order, everything relating to Warden orders might expire, but not in this case, because Harry was very much alive when Alfred began to act, and Mab knew it.
--- Quote ---3/ Therefore, at least some of Demonreach's Warden-stuff survives the death of the Warden.
--- End quote ---
Not really proof because Harry was very much alive when Alfred began to act. I imagine if Mab tried anything the effect would have been pretty instant and she would have been in the slammer before Harry hit the ground.
g33k:
--- Quote from: Mira on September 13, 2024, 01:09:35 PM --- Maybe a technicality here, but still important, when the order was given, Harry was a very alive Warden. So the order was, if Harry is killed by Mab, immediately put her in the slammer.. The order given by a very alive Warden, so I'd say it was still good, given what the order was...
--- End quote ---
Why wouldn't the Warden just give the order to keep the island at elevated defenses "until ordered otherwise" ... Then the island is defended even if the Warden dies, because the order was given by a "very-alive Warden."
We know the defenses were down when Harry took up the job... the question is, how long before a Warden-ordered elevated state of "Defcon" (or other orders) just "wear off" to normal low-grade steady-state, after the Warden dies?
Instantly? Likely not, if we're to judge by Mab's reaction.
A few moments? Possible, but Demonreach-powers bring a lot of psychic "inertia" to just evaporate so swiftly.
Next Sunrise? We now a sunrise -- and successive sunrises -- can wear-away magic & wards &c. But the defenses of the island have seen a LOT of sunrises... I don't think they're susceptible.
All this is supposition, though. AFAIK nobody has ever pinned Jim down on any of this.
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