The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Warden of Demonreach: Dragoncon lore-dump or retcon??!?
Mira:
Again, my question, how did such a despicable character become Warden? Sounds like he should have been one of the inmates.
g33k:
--- Quote from: Mira on September 11, 2024, 05:43:07 PM --- ... Again, my question, how did such a despicable character become Warden? Sounds like he should have been one of the inmates.
--- End quote ---
Kemmler was a mortal wizard, strong-enough & skilled-enough to pass the warden-tests. That qualifies him. Demonreach is largely amoral -- "despicable" is irrelevant.
If Kemmler had Darkhallow'ed, then Demonreach likely would have seen the issue rather differently...
;)
Mira:
--- Quote from: g33k on September 12, 2024, 02:29:54 AM ---Kemmler was a mortal wizard, strong-enough & skilled-enough to pass the warden-tests. That qualifies him. Demonreach is largely amoral -- "despicable" is irrelevant.
If Kemmler had Darkhallow'ed, then Demonreach likely would have seen the issue rather differently...
;)
--- End quote ---
Still doesn't follow, Kemmler as Warden still would have had control of the inmates. Another thing that doesn't fully compute, the island's defenses.. The ones that one the Warden has control of, they weren't in place when Harry took over as Warden. Alfred was barely holding on and that's why he was so happy to have a caretaker again.. Those Warden controlled defenses remain in control even when Harry isn't on the island.. Are they automatically dropped if Harry died leaving the island vulnerable once more?
g33k:
--- Quote from: Mira on September 12, 2024, 11:43:59 AM --- Still doesn't follow, Kemmler as Warden still would have had control of the inmates ...
--- End quote ---
That's our understanding, yes.
I confess: I don't have track of the WoJ (or canonical cite) which says this.
But AFAIK the inmates are still subject to (as yet unknown) specific rules of Demonreach. It's in BG, I think, where Harry discovered that Alfred does stuff outside of the Warden's orders/control/perception; I expect that brief reveal will prove important later!
--- Quote from: Mira on September 12, 2024, 11:43:59 AM ---... Another thing that doesn't fully compute, the island's defenses.. The ones that one the Warden has control of, they weren't in place when Harry took over as Warden. Alfred was barely holding on and that's why he was so happy to have a caretaker again.. Those Warden controlled defenses remain in control even when Harry isn't on the island.. Are they automatically dropped if Harry died leaving the island vulnerable once more?
--- End quote ---
I don't think the island drops all those defenses instantly, no: remember, Mab acted as if Harry's order to Demonreach (to imprison her if she killed him) was a "credible threat."
I suspect it'll be one or more funky bits of pseudo-mystical handwavium -- "a year and a day" or somesuch -- that is the duration for "final orders" of Wardens who die.
Mira:
--- Quote ---But AFAIK the inmates are still subject to (as yet unknown) specific rules of Demonreach. It's in BG, I think, where Harry discovered that Alfred does stuff outside of the Warden's orders/control/perception; I expect that brief reveal will prove important later!
--- End quote ---
I believe we do, if I remember correctly Harry was told, and I can't remember who told him at the end of Battle Ground that he could order the Titian he just jailed to do his bidding. So if that is true for Harry, it would have been true for Kemmler as well. And given Kemmler's record, and yeah I believe he was a bad guy, it doesn't make sense that he wouldn't have taken advantage and used one of these monsters. Unless he did try, and Alfred threw him off of the island and revoked his Warden status. Like I said, to my feeble brain anyway, something doesn't add up for Kemmler to have been Warden when he was killed.. Or that he had ever been Warden at all.
--- Quote ---I don't think the island drops all those defenses instantly, no: remember, Mab acted as if Harry's order to Demonreach (to imprison her if she killed him) was a "credible threat."
--- End quote ---
Yes, it was a credible threat because Harry was Warden as of Turn Coat, he just didn't know it. He may not have had all the poop on the defenses, but by the beginning of Cold Days, when he and Bob went to the island and Alfred explained about the prison etc, Harry understood he was Warden and that Alfred would obey his order to throw Mab in the slammer.
Mab also understood, and most likely understood since the end of Changes when she took Harry near death body to the island. It was also mentioned at the end of Ghost Story when he woke up in Mab's arms that he was Alfred's caretaker.. I am sure Mab understood that being the island's caretaker and Warder were the same thing.
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