The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Have there been any . . .
Mira:
--- Quote from: g33k on June 12, 2024, 09:58:51 PM ---Not so: the "Eldest" is a mantle for each sort -- Eldest Gruff, Eldest Fetch, etc.
Kringle is a winterfae mantle.
--- End quote ---
You're right, but I think they work differently from the four I mentioned. Is Kringle a mortal, or rather was he ever a mortal?
g33k:
--- Quote from: Lord Kinbote on June 06, 2024, 12:49:33 AM ---I expect something far more convoluted and dark. Say, Lea agreed to hide and protect Margaret from Lord Raith if she followed Lea's instructions (from Mab or the Queen Mothers) so that Margaret would give birth a starborn that Mab needed to beat the Outsiders. And Malcom's death was also caused/orchestrated so that Justin could eventually begin sharpening Harry into the weapon Mab needed ...
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Oh, I don't think they "ordered" Margaret around.... They lured her into doing what they wanted, making her think it was her own plan.
Margaret LeFey was extraordinarily adept with faerie ways, but Mab is just on another level... Mab manipulated Nic & Anduriel. Manipulating Maggie Sr. would be childs' play.
As to the rest... I'm inclined to agree. Justin was Mab's pick for Harry's inital tutelage with magic; Mab arranged Malcolm's death (likely at Lea's hand (or bed)) to begin a pattern of isolation & disaffection, and so Harry would be available when Justin came looking.
g33k:
--- Quote from: Mira on June 12, 2024, 10:06:18 PM ---... Is Kringle a mortal, or rather was he ever a mortal?
--- End quote ---
It's a Winterfae mantle.
I expect a powerful-enough mortal could wear it (tho AFAIK it's un-stated that one ever has (or has not)), but it's likely more-suited to a being with more-than-mortal willpower.
Lord Kinbote:
--- Quote from: g33k on June 12, 2024, 10:10:19 PM ---Oh, I don't think they "ordered" Margaret around.... They lured her into doing what they wanted, making her think it was her own plan.
Margaret LeFey was extraordinarily adept with faerie ways, but Mab is just on another level... Mab manipulated Nic & Anduriel. Manipulating Maggie Sr. would be childs' play.
--- End quote ---
I'd be surprised if they lured Maggie, Sr. into that position unless you also consider Harry as having been lured into being Winter Knight. I think there's likely some symmetry here with Harry's experience, and Maggie, Sr. found herself in a position where her only option out was to bargain with Mab or Lea.
I also suspect that Thomas was Maggie, Sr.'s first attempt at a starborn, and a super-charged WC one at that, and that any bargain with the Fae pre-dated and required/resulted in Thomas' conception. That would explain her relationship with Lord Raith, to date an unexplained and fateful/fatal pairing, as well as why Maggie, Sr. and Raith fell out (WC is also all about family, and Raith couldn't have been happy when he found out that Maggie, Sr. had manipulated him for the benefit of the Fae and for his son), and maybe also why Mab has indicated that Thomas might be offered the WK mantle should Harry no longer be the WK.
Mira:
--- Quote ---I'd be surprised if they lured Maggie, Sr. into that position unless you also consider Harry as having been lured into being Winter Knight. I think there's likely some symmetry here with Harry's experience, and Maggie, Sr. found herself in a position where her only option out was to bargain with Mab or Lea.
--- End quote ---
Yeah, I don't think they lured Margaret into it either. My belief is she knew or was aware of the White Council's desire for a controllable star born, I doubt given her attitude towards them that she wanted their protection and what strings they might have required of her. Yet she knew the need for one, after she met Malcolm and fell in love, she felt he had the needed qualities to father a star born who could be a leader in the coming BAT. She also knew he or she would be in danger and needed protection. She also knew that Mab was very interested in a star born, but one that she could control. I think Margaret felt that a child fathered by Malcolm would have the strength to cooperate with, but at the same time resist Mab's control. So she chose what was for her the lessor of two evils, protection of Winter over protection of the White Council, so she made her bargain.. In effect, like she found and exploited a chink in Lord Raith's armor when she threw her death curse, she found a loop hole in Fae bargaining, Mab may have thought she got what she wanted, but not really, as she has found out since Harry became her Knight.
--- Quote ---I also suspect that Thomas was Maggie, Sr.'s first attempt at a starborn, and a super-charged WC one at that, and that any bargain with the Fae pre-dated and required/resulted in Thomas' conception. That would explain her relationship with Lord Raith, to date an unexplained and fateful/fatal pairing, as well as why Maggie, Sr. and Raith fell out (WC is also all about family, and Raith couldn't have been happy when he found out that Maggie, Sr. had manipulated him for the benefit of the Fae and for his son), and maybe also why Mab has indicated that Thomas might be offered the WK mantle should Harry no longer be the WK.
--- End quote ---
I don't think so, there is a recipe for conceiving a star born, Harry was conceived using the recipe, Thomas was not. That's confirmed by Lash in White Night that Margaret didn't decide to conceive a star child until she met and fell in love with Malcolm.
--- Quote ---I expect a powerful-enough mortal could wear it (tho AFAIK it's un-stated that one ever has (or has not)), but it's likely more-suited to a being with more-than-mortal willpower.
--- End quote ---
So far the only mortal we've seen with that kind of will power is Harry, and he is a star born. Now the other star borns that we know of, i.e. Drakul and Listen may have that kind of will power, but they are not members of the Fae Courts as far as we know.
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