The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Harry is a Dad...Again..😳
LordDresden2:
--- Quote from: Mira on June 27, 2024, 04:23:26 PM ---Agreed, we also know if true love happens before the first feeding, the Hunger Demon can be burned out. That was the hope for Inari in Blood Rites. Thomas had his first feeding until death and his demon is engaged, he is a WCV.. It would make sense that once that happens the host shouldn't be able to feel true love again, because why would the parasite want to die once it matures and is feeding.. I know want is a poor word to use, but the parasite/demon depends on the host feeding to survive..
--- End quote ---
The demon can't really prevent the WV from feeling/experiencing love, or anything else. A WV is still a human, with all that that implies.
--- Quote ---
Vamps can feel love, Thomas loved Justine, supposedly true love, and Lara loves her little brother, a different kind of love.. Maybe it is something that superficially sounds cool, but doesn't stand up to logic if you think too deeply about it?
--- End quote ---
There's isn't any contradiction.
To produce the protection effect, there has to be genuine, self-abnegating love on both sides. Sexual intercourse transfers energy from one to the other, not just fluids. If that mutual love is present, the energy from the other person will then burn a WC vampire that tries to feed on it...even if that energy came from that WV.
Subsequent sex without love transfers energy as well, which wipes away/drowns out/covers the protective energy, and after that the person is vulnerable again. Note that even if two people are protected after a single encounter, one of them can have sex with someone else and lose the protection, while the other still has it.
Can the personal energy transfer by means other than sex? JB has said yes, at least in theory, but we've only ever seen it work with sex. Apparently even a hug transfers a little energy from person to person, from what Bob has said. Maybe an intense enough love might provide protection from no more than an embrace, but we've never seen it happen.
The fact that Justine burns Thomas indicates that there was indeed mutual love present when they were together. It wouldn't work otherwise.
LordDresden2:
--- Quote from: Mira on June 26, 2024, 11:59:36 AM ---Did she? Or can Nemesis mimic true love so that Thomas would truly believe she loved him?
--- End quote ---
The protection doesn't depend on belief, it depends on the actual presence of mutual Love. Nemesis would have to do more than make Thomas believe it, it would have to be able to produce the burn when a WV tries to feed, to maintain such a deception.
Regenbogen:
--- Quote from: LordDresden2 on June 28, 2024, 04:39:20 AM ---The protection doesn't depend on belief, it depends on the actual presence of mutual Love. Nemesis would have to do more than make Thomas believe it, it would have to be able to produce the burn when a WV tries to feed, to maintain such a deception.
--- End quote ---
What makes you think that Nemesis isn't able to maintain the deception.
I believe he can.
@all
--- Quote ---True love – real true love, not just romantic love – protects only against WC vamps feeding through lust/intimacy.
--- End quote ---
Also, I have thought about this concept of true love. When is it true love instead of just love? And does that mean that not every kind of romantic love between equals is true love? What is it then? What is the difference?
--- Quote --- Any time it is Real Love between equals, there’s the possibility of protection.
--- End quote ---
So it is just any real love. But what is it that triggers the protection?
Is it the mutual will to selfless sacrifice oneself? Ok, so what if the will is there but there is no opportunity to act on it? Is there still protection.
The quote only says "the possibility of protection", so not all couples who truly love are protected automatically. There must be a trigger not all couples experience. Otherwise it wouldn't be so rare.
We don't have many true love examples in the books:
#1 Harry twice: Susan and later Murphy.
Susan: Harry was willing to sacrifice himself to safe her in Grave Peril. He went into the Rampires' stronghold to safe her, completely disregarding the consequences.
Murphy: they saved each other's lives several times.
#2 Thomas and Justine: though I honestly doubt , that it is real, because I believe that Nemesis can fake it really well.
#3 the unknown owner of the wedding ring which burned Lara's hand. Story told by Thomas.
--- Quote --- Q: Do you have to have sex in order to have protection from the White Court?
A: No, you don’t have to. It is helpful, though.
--- End quote ---
So what now? :o
The protection can be there without sex. But when having sex with someone else, you can easily break this powerful protection that is so hard to come by. So bad cards for true love couples who prefer swinger club activities, lol.
Mira:
--- Quote ---The protection doesn't depend on belief, it depends on the actual presence of mutual Love. Nemesis would have to do more than make Thomas believe it, it would have to be able to produce the burn when a WV tries to feed, to maintain such a deception.
--- End quote ---
I think it would be a mistake to believe that Nemesis isn't capable of that, that's why they are such a threat. Yes, the protection depends on the presence of actual mutual love, but how do you define that exactly? True love has nothing to do with sex.. Sex can be be better with it, but you can enjoy sex without any love at all. Sex is a physical act, true love is an emotional state, one that is quite complicated.
--- Quote ---To produce the protection effect, there has to be genuine, self-abnegating love on both sides. Sexual intercourse transfers energy from one to the other, not just fluids. If that mutual love is present, the energy from the other person will then burn a WC vampire that tries to feed on it...even if that energy came from that WV.
--- End quote ---
I remember reading that even a wedding ring of someone sharing true love will burn a WCV. Again true love doesn't depend on sex! What about unrequited love? One person can truly love another and that love isn't returned. Is that person protected? The emotion is present, so why not?
--- Quote ---We don't have many true love examples in the books:
--- End quote ---
What about Michael and Charity, I'd say they truly love one another.. I think Malcolm and Margaret truly loved one another. I think Gard was truly in love.
--- Quote ---So what now? :o
The protection can be there without sex. But when having sex with someone else, you can easily break this powerful protection that is so hard to come by. So bad cards for true love couples who prefer swinger club activities, lol.
--- End quote ---
Which makes no sense and cheapens the meaning of what true love is.. True love isn't a fragile thing, poor judgement under the influence shouldn't break it.. One can make a mistake, and the partner who truly loves that person can sincerely forgive that mistake.. Is the protection broken in that case?
--- Quote ---Also, I have thought about this concept of true love. When is it true love instead of just love? And does that mean that not every kind of romantic love between equals is true love? What is it then? What is the difference?
--- End quote ---
I think they are intertwined, physical attraction can lead to falling in love. However one can fall out of love as easily as one falls in love, very fragile at this state. Next comes actually being in love, it's stronger, there is commitment there between the couple, often leads to marriage or cohabitation. However while it might lead to true love, it doesn't mean that the couple are in a state of true love. So what is true love? It involves a lot of tolerance for starters on the part of both partners, the ability to see beyond all the faults of the other, to see the good and want to share your soul with the other.. That might be trite crap, but that's my opinion of what true love is for what it's worth.
--- Quote ---Ok people, I definitely was wrong. And of course I am very, very sorry. In answer to this I've been checking and I found what I quote below. I swear I was not dreaming. I am sure in some moment Jim said the Protection involved the potential for creating life (more or less like the sex magic in the books). But apparently many years ago he said another thing...and I do not if this helps us or not. Personally I am much more confused, because if True Love is, well, you know, just love, then how can it be so easily broken? I don't know, see for yourselves.
--- End quote ---
I agree Dina, true love isn't easily broken, not by a bit of unfaithfulness, because true love often defies logic. More confusing, the partner who was unfaithful may lose protection, but should the faithful one, who still might truly love the other lose his or hers?
Regenbogen:
--- Quote ---What about Michael and Charity, I'd say they truly love one another.. I think Malcolm and Margaret truly loved one another. I think Gard was truly in love.
--- End quote ---
I agree, I suppose this is true love.
But what I meant to say: there is no evidence in the books that for example Michael and Charity are protected. I mean they are already under protection of the angels.
Did Thomas ever go into their house? I can't remember. Did Thomas ever touch either of them? Maybe I'll put special emphasis on looking for those moments during my next reread.
With Margaret and Malcolm I think it is implied that they were protected from Lord Raith somehow, probably by true love, but again there is no clear evidence in the book. One can just assume.
Also no evidence with Gard and Hendricks. They loved each other, but was it really true love? Or just mutual attraction and admiration? Or just love love, not true love.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version