The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Uriel's Seven Words, So Who is the Liar?
The_Sibelis:
--- Quote ---2011 DC signing
Did Mab lie? (At the end of Ghost Story)
Mab did not lie, Mab was wrong. There’s a subtle difference to that, at the end of Ghost Story. As far as Mab is concerned, she’s telling the truth, because she’s telling the truth from her experience, as she knows it. Dresden, however, is getting an earful of truth on a more cosmic level. So we’ll see how that plays out a little bit more in the next book
--- End quote ---
Dina:
Thanks, the Sibelis.
Still, I keep my interpretation. Mab did not want to change Harry into a popsicle or a monster. She can shape him in a way that pleases her...which is basically allowing Harry be Harry. That pleases her. She is absolutely trying to deceive both Alfred and Harry into believing that she could change Harry into a monster or a bad guy or whatever, but she did not really say that. Uriel intervened because Harry was interpreting those words in the way Mab wanted.
CrusherJen:
--- Quote ---So Eb isn't always truthful, but Mab is a deceiver... In Skin Game she neglected to tell Harry what her and Marcone's real plan was.
--- End quote ---
Skin Game, hardcover first edtion, page 25:
--- Quote ---"Do I seem stupid to you, my Knight?" she asked. "Think."
I eyed her. Mab's voice was perfectly calm. After what I'd said to her, the defiance I'd offered her, I hadn't expected that. She had never been shy about showing her outrage when she felt it had been earned. This perfect poise was... not out of character, precisely, but I had expected a good deal more intensity than she was displaying. My defiance endangered her plans, and that never left her in a good mood.
Unless...
I closed my eyes and ran back through her words in my head.
"Your precise instructions," I said slowly, "were to go with Nicodemus and help him until such time as he completed his objective."
"Indeed," Mab said. "Which he stated was to remove the contents of a vault." She leaned down, took a fistful of my shirt in her hand, and hauled me back to my feet as easily as she might heft a Chihuahua. "I never said what you would do after."
I blinked at that. Several times. "You..." I dropped my voice. "You want me to double-cross him?"
"I expect you to repay my debt by fulfilling my instructions," Mab replied. "After that..." Her smile returned, smug in the shadows. "I expect you to be yourself."
"Whatever Nicodemus has going this time... you want to stop him, too," I breathed.
She tilted her head, very slightly.
"You know he's not going to honor the truce," I said quietly. "He's going to try to take me out somewhere along the line. He's going to betray me."
"Of course," she said. "I expect superior, more creative treachery on your part."
"While still keeping your word and helping him?" I demanded.
Her smile sharpened. "Is it not quite the game?" she asked. "In my younger days, I would have relished such a novel challenge."
"Yeah," I said. "Gee. Thanks."
--- End quote ---
Mira:
--- Quote from: CrusherJen on October 27, 2023, 11:54:02 PM ---Skin Game, hardcover first edtion, page 25:
--- End quote ---
Here is another quote from Skin Game, towards the end page 443;
Mab did deceive Harry about what the plan was, he and Molly confront her and Marcone.
--- Quote ---"You could have told me from the beginning," I said. "But it was never about paying back a favor. And it wasn't about foiling his scheme. This was full-scale political vengeance."
--- End quote ---
As a result, people who shouldn't have been hurt were or even died..
The real point is you can say that as long as the person believes he or she is telling the truth it isn't a lie. Perhaps, but that doesn't make it the truth either does it? So Mab can say she cannot lie, but at the same time tell a lie... Mab may believe that Harry is hers to shape as she pleases, think she isn't lying when she says it, but it is still untrue... So Eb says,"don't fall for it,"
Dina:
Of course Mab can be wrong. That is what JB said. But that is not lying. If you know what you are saying is not true, you are lying. If you do not know that, you are just wrong. Mab cannot lie but she can be wrong.
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