The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
So Fitz is...
g33k:
--- Quote from: Ed0517 on November 28, 2022, 06:13:38 AM --- I don't read it that way. They brought in the Korean kid. They had a trial, they soulgazed him, they knew he drove at least 4 to suicide. Drove dozens insane. And they still brought him in for a trial. And they brought him in.
They would have likely had the equivalent to a "suspect is considered armed and dangerous" warning but it is an arrest team, not an assassination squad ...
--- End quote ---
Yeah, but "considered armed and dangerous" is often enough to get the suspect killed.
I think they captured the Korean Kid because he was actually pretty weak. Likely a "one-trick pony" and not much of a foe for seasoned wardens. One of them could just walk up to him -- shields up, so they don't get brain-fried -- and knock him out (I bet Morgan's right cross would do the job; but they've got magic if needed).
They captured the Korean Kid because it was easy.
But -- at this point in the narrative, as of Fool Moon -- the Wardens are part of Harry's "threat assessment," he sees them as foes likely to kill. So he's protecting Kim from that (expecting they will kill her).
--- Quote from: Ed0517 on November 28, 2022, 06:13:38 AM --- ... They catch he, bring her in, gaze her, and likely tell her minor wizards should not be playing with this stuff. You are dealing way beyond your power level.
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I suspect you're right... But Harry didn't think so, at the time!
Harry expected that the kind of summoning-circle she was proposing would be taken as proof of guilt, and she'd be executed for it.
Later-Harry (a book or three after he dons the greycloak) would probably realize the Wardens would more likely rescue Kim, than kill her: investigate, find out she was trying to contain a loup-garou, and either finish the circle for her, or kill MacFinn themselves. And warn her never to mess around with those powers again!
g33k:
--- Quote from: Mira on November 28, 2022, 09:39:27 PM --- Finn was no wizard, but he had put together elements of the circle to contain himself in the woods when Harry found him ...
--- End quote ---
Cite, please? I don't think you are recalling correctly.
Harry said that he himself could do such a thing, not that MacFinn could (nor had).
--- Quote from: Mira on November 28, 2022, 09:39:27 PM --- ... Somehow he managed not to expose himself when he was a soldier in Viet Nam, or during basic ...
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Basic training is an issue -- a huge issue -- but maybe it is just down to Jim being careless. It's 8-12 weeks, depending on the branch of service (that's 1 full moon if you are VERY lucky, but probably 2, and maybe even 3).
HOWEVER -- MacFinn was rich. His family was in railroads. He could probably arrange timing of Basic for just a single-full-moon cycle, and then ALSO fake-up a "family emergency" that would let him go home for a day or two. This could be managed, with money.
But also (and IMHO the more-likely explanation): the MacFinn curse only affects 1 family member at a time. If the circle was imported by dad/grandpa/etc, maybe one of those elder generations was at home -- inside the intact circle! -- while young Harley was in Basic; then they died, when he was in 'Nam (and he used the curse to take revenge on the Viet Cong).
Then -- being the CEO of a shipping conglomerate -- he was probably eligible to go home and take over the family business.
--- Quote from: Mira on November 28, 2022, 09:39:27 PM --- ... Harry was going to try ...
--- End quote ---
Harry expected to succeed. Remember: Harry grabbed chalk and 7 stones to go set the circle inside the police station. He was betting other peoples' lives on his success. He'd have been working on another plan, if he didn't expect to succeed!
Ed0517:
--- Quote ---Here's one.... they say archangels - could this circle, perfectly drawn, hold Uriel? a Mother? I tend to think humans can't even channel that sort of mana. Maybe Jim should have left out arch-
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: Mira on November 28, 2022, 11:40:14 AM --- It is the second book in the series, Jim could have changed his mind, but then again the circle has never been tested on page against the like. Uriel did shrug his shoulders at the pitiful circle a wounded Harry made to try to contain him in Changes, but that wasn't the same kind of circle.
--- End quote ---
Or, maybe the WC had their heads up their butts. They do seem to have underestimated the Archive, certainly. Harry told Luccio so.
--- Quote ---It really wasn't a trial, it was more of a kangaroo court, that is what Harry objected to. That is what he insisted on for Molly, a real trial at the end of the book.
--- End quote ---
they did have fact findings. It's not really a kangaroo court when the guilt is plainly proven.
--- Quote --- Harry hints that knowing how to build such a circle flirts with the dark arts. It isn't just about having one of these circles in your back yard, but what you could call up with it. She wasn't a minor wizard, she wasn't even an apprentice, she had a little talent. The speech Harry gave her about the circle, what it could contain, controlling such a thing sounded a lot like the one the Merlin gave him about young would be warlocks, the immense amount of danger, deaths, if they were allowed to live and something went wrong.. Which it did, and Kim and a lot of innocents died.
--- End quote ---
Actually, the Merlin treated Harry a lot less dismissively than Harry did Kim. Harry knew more of what could happen. Harry did not sit Kim down and say "What that is meant to hold is NASTY. You screw up any TINY detail about the circle, it gets free and dozens are probably going to die. You are putting a nitroglycerine factory between a school and an apartment building. "
--- Quote ---
Why didn't she explain about Finn? I think Harry would have gone with her and tried to help Finn. Kim wanted Harry's knowledge, but she wanted to handle it herself, she wanted the credit.. In other words she was beginning down the road to the dark side, I believe the White Council would have seen it the same way.
--- End quote ---
Or it was simply pride. "I'm a big girl. I can do it myself" Acting like some teenager eager to be of age. She didn't want help due to her pride. Not evil. Just immature.
Ed0517:
--- Quote ---How else did the summoning rite for Chauncy get out into the mortal world? ...
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: g33k on November 28, 2022, 07:18:26 PM ---Hell itself has strong interest in having these sorts of summonings available to mortals -- and has the means to get them into mortals' hands!
--- End quote ---
You mean like some organization that basically got a "How to kill black court vampires" book published as Dracula? Wo were they? ;)
Ed0517:
--- Quote from: Mira on November 28, 2022, 09:39:27 PM ---kind of circle was needed to contain him, no, I think he knew a lot more than
No, then who built it there in the first place? Why? How did Finn know about it?That's a possible way, if that is what he did, he must have hauled it all over the world with him.
--- End quote ---
Hey, the Pope and the President of the US bring their cars with them. Why can't he bring a slab of stone? If you have the bucks.....
--- Quote ---Harry was going to try.. Materials are important,and maybe just just useless bling in this case. Remember I think it was after Harry was made a Warden and had a regular paycheck, one of the first things he did was upgrade the circle in his basement to silver, I cannot remember what it was made of before, but I remember him saying that the silver made a stronger circle.
--- End quote ---
I think it was copper. I may be geeking, but did you know copper is the second best conductor of electricity amongst the elements? the only thing better.... is silver. It may be the more power you have, the less material assistance you need.
Hypothetical example. It takes 100 wizard-volts to power a circle that will hold Chauncey. An aluminum circle loses half the power sent by the wizard to waste. Light, heat, whatever. Minor practitioner with 150 wizard-volts can't summon safely. Harry had 1000 wizard volts, even with the relatively cheap aluminum, he shoots out 250 WV to have a safe margin, the field is a 125 WV flux density, Chauncey is caged.
Harry wants to summon the Erlking, who is likely going to be pissed. His field needs 750 WV. Harry would have to have 1500 WV minimum. He doesn't. But SILVER has a 10% voltage drop. So his circle, he can throw all 1000 WV and achieve a 900 WV field. Erlking has to sit and listen. Still makes sense to be very polite, apologetic, and make it worth his while.
But note, with Harry's nice silver circle, minor practitioner would have been able to cage Chauncey. So materials do count.
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