The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Star Born (direct quotes compilation)
Yuillegan:
--- Quote from: Mira on March 06, 2022, 11:31:03 AM ---In White Night Lash Harry;
Perhaps I'm wrong, but that sounds way more complicated that finding the right place at the right time to give birth. It takes planning, time of conception and matter of conception is very much a part of that.
--- End quote ---
Well if we play out the idea that Margaret intended Harry to be a star born, the logic says she must have known a) what star born are (otherwise why bother), b) when the star born conjunction was going to occur and where the light would shine on Earth, c) any sort of preparation/sanctification of Harry that may have been required prior to his birth.
Now we have to figure out where she got this information (information that seems very carefully guarded). Margaret was no slouch and she travelled far and wide; but she was also at odds with the White Council for much of her life (particularly around the time of Harry's birth). It doesn't rule them out but you then have to go the extra step and say it was a conspiracy between them and her.
The more simple explanation is she got the information in her travels (in particular with Lord Raith and his big library that has made Lara turn from a manipulative politician to an expansionist drawing all available power to her, the same library that convinced Lord Raith to become a player in this cycle). But she then did the unexpected and ran away and used the information for her own goals, and not the goals of her previous allies.
In any case, I don't believe the circumstances of Harry's conception played into this. If you're suggesting Malcolm was selected on purpose (particularly for his rare personal characteristics let alone any possible supernatural ones) how does that account for the other 50,000 at the time? You wouldn't suggest that there are 50,000 Malcolms for such purposes. And then you look at a character like Listen. Were his parents specifically selected? While I don't doubt the importance of bloodlines I am not so sure that necessary for the creation of star borns. I think the main components are being in the Light of the conjunction (i.e. the time and place) and any specific sanctification/preparation of Margaret and/or Harry. What other components are there really?
--- Quote from: BrainFireBob on March 06, 2022, 11:04:10 PM ---Magic is generally inherited from the female line and exposure to talent prebirth.
I rather think the deal with Maggie Sr is that she mastered the Ways young enough as a woman to guarantee a wizard-level offspring born whenever she picked via time manipulation via the Ways. The trick is a starborn with metaphysical capabilities. Since the Fomor favored the talented for their modification, I suspect Listens happens to have Paranet level talent. Maggie was still fertile when she attained that level of Ways mastery, and as a female wizard could guarantee foetal exposure to high level magical energy.
But Harry has a big, big talent. And not by chance. I think Maggie hacked the process, and her amulet represents the ability to create an army of starborn wizards next time around.Therefore, it's dangerous and the Merlin will want it smashed.
I think Thomas was a test run, with Valentine's picked for sentimental reasons. He might represent a 5 month objective 9 month subjective pregnancy kind of situation, as could Harry. Or vice versa- 9 month subjective 5 year objective.
Also, @Yuillegan, I think Edinborough represents the Erlking's old digs- his contribution to Odin's pet project.
Typed on mobile, sorry
--- End quote ---
But why go to the effort? Margaret's bloodline was already strong enough (and has Ebenezar in it before her, and potentially dates back to the original Merlin). She didn't need to shop around as she had all the power she needed in her bloodline to produce such a strong wizard.
I don't think that there is some grand conspiracy with choosing Malcolm. I think she chose Malcolm for the simplest yet most mysterious reason of all: love.
This is how she had the strength to escape Lord Raith. She fell in love. So Raith no longer held power over her. And she fled to protect her new love, and perhaps her soon-to-be-born offspring.
I am very confused about the Erlking being linked to Edinburgh. The second Merlin won it off a Sidhe lord - the Erlking is a (the) goblin lord (and stronger than almost any Sidhe bar the Queen and possibly Lea and Eldest Gruff).
Mira:
--- Quote ---Now we have to figure out where she got this information (information that seems very carefully guarded). Margaret was no slouch and she travelled far and wide; but she was also at odds with the White Council for much of her life (particularly around the time of Harry's birth). It doesn't rule them out but you then have to go the extra step and say it was a conspiracy between them and her.
--- End quote ---
No, she was no fool, but from the way Lash words it when she tells Harry about it says she was being set up to be the little star mother. I will wager it was because of qualities she had.
--- Quote ---In any case, I don't believe the circumstances of Harry's conception played into this. If you're suggesting Malcolm was selected on purpose (particularly for his rare personal characteristics let alone any possible supernatural ones) how does that account for the other 50,000 at the time? You wouldn't suggest that there are 50,000 Malcolms for such purposes. And then you look at a character like Listen. Were his parents specifically selected? While I don't doubt the importance of bloodlines I am not so sure that necessary for the creation of star borns. I think the main components are being in the Light of the conjunction (i.e. the time and place) and any specific sanctification/preparation of Margaret and/or Harry. What other components are there really?
--- End quote ---
My answer to that is something Jim said years ago when asked about Elaine and Harry. Paraphrasing because I cannot remember the exact WOJ, but he said those born at that
particular time have the potentialto be star born, which is a lot different from being
star born. Again I used the example of Harry Potter and Nevil Longbottom, both were born
under the same circumstances to become "the boy who lived," actually if I remember the story
correctly it should have been Nevil, but it was Voldermort that screwed up and went after the wrong baby. So what I am saying is if we go by that old WOJ, if I'm remembering it correctly, fifty thousand born under that light and alignment of stars have the potential to be star born, but out
of that number, very few actually grow up to be one.
Margaret also knew she and her baby would be targeted, thus she made arrangements with the Winter Court and Harry ended up with a real fairy godmother.
Conspiracy Theorist:
Margaret made an arrangement with Lea, not the Winter Court, subtle difference. If it was a personal agreement Mab will stand back and let Harry be Harry. If Winter had been formally involved this might be construed as a move by Winter on the White Council, instead it was an agreement between individuals.
Harry’s own agreement with Lea was personal to her UNTIL Mab took over the agreement as part of the price for a cure. Harry wasn’t going to go to the White Council to help him, and Mab could still claim this was personal between her and Harry, Mab had a claim, not Winter. That ended when Harry accepted Winters offer and became Winter Knight.
Mira:
--- Quote ---Margaret made an arrangement with Lea, not the Winter Court, subtle difference. If it was a personal agreement Mab will stand back and let Harry be Harry. If Winter had been formally involved this might be construed as a move by Winter on the White Council, instead it was an agreement between individuals.
--- End quote ---
I'm not totally convinced of that, I think the godmother bit is pretty significant, also the Winter Court is in charge of the defense of the Outer Gates. So that kind of move in my opinion doesn't happen without passing muster with Mab. Why would it have to be seen as a move on the White Council by the Winter Court? To quote Rashid who plays a significant role both on the Senior Council of the White Council and in the Winter Court as the Gate Keeper as one of the main generals keeping the Outsiders at bay.. "What the White Council doesn't know won't hurt it.."
So I wouldn't be shocked if the White Council is totally ignorant that Lea is Harry's godmother.
--- Quote ---
Harry’s own agreement with Lea was personal to her UNTIL Mab took over the agreement as part of the price for a cure. Harry wasn’t going to go to the White Council to help him, and Mab could still claim this was personal between her and Harry, Mab had a claim, not Winter. That ended when Harry accepted Winters offer and became Winter Knight.
--- End quote ---
Um, Mab is Winter, and I doubt it was personal, if Harry was just your ordinary Joe, who's mother made some kind of bargain with Lea, you'd be right, and I doubt that Mab would be interested. But Harry isn't, Mab knows it, has known it from the time he was a mere gleam in Malcolm's eye, she plays the long game and as a result, got herself a star born as her Winter Knight with the BAT approaching.
Conspiracy Theorist:
Monarchs have their official sovereign capacity and their personal capacity. So yes, Mab can contract in either capacity. When Harry started being useful to her she made sure she took over Lea’s deal over Harry, literally freezing her our. Everything Lea has done since then for Harry was by Mab after Harry became Winter Knight, part of her duties to her liege..
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