The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Star Born (direct quotes compilation)
Yuillegan:
--- Quote from: Mira on March 03, 2022, 06:22:31 PM ---The evidence for that is in my opinion is the fact that she apparently knew the significance of on and how to conceive of one. Now it is possible I guess that it was Lord Raith that was pushing her for this. Wouldn't he have loved a star born child that he could use as a weapon? Provided of course it was female, a male child especially a star born one would have been seen as a threat. So I don't think that happened, and while the idea of star born children may be general knowledge, the details of how to conceive one is another matter. Apparently the Senior Council has this knowledge, Eb wasn't a member at that time, but as Blackstaff with the job perhaps of taking one out from time to time, he'd need the knowledge. I think the real reason the Merlin wanted Eb to observe and possibly wipe out young Harry wasn't because he feared he'd revert to warlock, but because he knew Harry was star born. And just how did that know this? I mean they may have had Harry's birthday, but did they have the other information about him? That tells me they knew very well what Margaret had done, and had been a part of it at one time.
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I think several parties want their own star born. But were they trying to make one or did they luck out when they found one? Considering their were around 50k at Harry's birth, it isn't like there wasn't a plethora to choose from. Given some comments made by Jim about how the White Council is so out-gunned and desperate for fire power, I wonder if they wouldn't normally have allowed a star born to exist (think about Morgan's diary entry - he finds it abhorrent that a "Destroyer" should be born and the Merlin wished to execute Harry, and Morgan was one of the top hatchet men for the job) but once presented with the opportunity some wished to exploit this potential weapon. Was it happenstance or planning by the White Council? I don't doubt Raith was involved in trying to get a star born of course, considering his involvement around that time. I don't know that Raith needed a child as much as a slave, so I am not sure the gender mattered much. I think we are both in agreement on the real reasons Eb was to watch (and potentially execute) Harry. The White Council knowing about it is still fairly removed from them planning and/or orchestrating it (although I wouldn't put it past certain rogue elements to be involved like Justin and/or potentially Simon). I just don't see Margaret Le Fay, legendary White Council rebel, working with her organisation that she was on the run from.
--- Quote ---Is it? I mean several characters have come out and called Harry a star born without much trouble. Harry doesn't have a tat too on his forehead proclaiming it, so without additional information how did they know? Now HWWB didn't seem to have any trouble, though he didn't come right out and call him a star born. Do Outsiders make a habit of visiting and checking out possible star born confidantes?
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Well, Maeve could have known due to her Fae knowledge or via Mab, or perhaps being of two-worlds she can just "see" it. But she also was infected by Nemesis, and I am sure Nemesis (like any Outsider) can spot a star born instantly. The Erlking has similar reasons in that he is Fae (and potentially an ex-god), and that Mab may have informed him, and he also knew Maggie. Apart from Outsiders I can't think of who else has called Harry star born. Obviously Eb and senior wizards know, but were they told or can they see something with the Sight? Something most wouldn't recognise. River Shoulders knows (and I guarantee Blood-on-his-Soul also knows) but I would tie that in to what they are. Drakul is a star born himself, so he might recognise his own kind, but he also seems very clued in. I am sure He Who Walks Behind knew exactly what Harry is, just like the other Walkers and other Outsiders. I also suspect gods and angels, and perhaps some demons, certainly the Fallen would also know. Look at the interest Harry gets from these beings. Certainly above normal. I am curious if Alfred knows (or cares). I also wonder if the Naagloshii knew...given what they were I would lean towards yes but it did seem puzzled by Harry's soulfire. I know not all star born would have that but still.
--- Quote ---But Harry has always known since White Knight that he was different because of how his mother and father conceived him, he had power over Outsiders. Also from the soul gaze with Thomas, Margaret told him that it might be unfair the burden her and his father placed on him. Also in Harry's vision/dream of Malcolm, he repeated what Margaret said. As late as Peace Talks Eb told Harry he can deal with Outsiders, yet Harry hasn't used that knowledge to go Outsider hunting.
So he knows quite a bit, but unless there is some more to the huge reveal, why not tell him? I think a lot of people will have a lot to answer for once Harry knows, that is why no one is sitting him down and telling him the whole truth.. I include the Winter Court in that, I think they had a lot to do with why Margaret ultimately made her decision.. Andthat'swhy Harry is really going to be pissed at Lea for becoming his godmother, he is going to be pissed at the whole Winter Court.. Hell yeah, he will feel used and abused in the typical fashion that only Harry Dresden can feel.. ::)
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Is it to do with how he is conceived? I believe Ebenezar says it's about where the child is born that matters i.e. in the celestial light from the conjunction. If she hadn't birthed him in that light it might not have done anything. To be fair to Harry, he only found out a small bit of information about himself and what he is and part of what that means in Peace Talks. He hasn't really had an opportunity to really test out that strength (although we've seen it in action against the Walkers and other Outsiders of course). It's not an ultimate weapon, it just means he can get them where most beings struggle to. Doesn't mean he can lay them all out (at least for now).
Well I would have thought it was obvious there is going to be a huge reveal. That's been hinted at since the beginning. In more recent interviews though Jim has said we are not going to know everything until the very end of the BAT, which makes sense. He's got books to sell after all. I agree that it's frustrating and sometimes stretches belief, but Jim will have his reasons. Time will tell if those in-universe reasons make sense or not.
And yes, he is going to feel very betrayed by everyone (especially Margaret). But that's all part of the fun!
--- Quote from: Conspiracy Theorist on March 04, 2022, 08:39:44 PM ---Not Winter, Lea. Not everything Lea does is on behalf of Winter.
The deal Lea made with Harry was with her, not Winter. It’s transfer to Winter was part of the price Lea paid to be free of Nemesis. This doesn’t mean that the deal Lea made with Margaret was with Winter, or part of the price Lea paid. Harry was not part of that deal, he cut his own with Lea.
What did Mab get with it eventually ? A competent Winter Knight and Winter Lady. There is nothing else she needs. Lea’s deal with Margaret if about Maggie, is not about Winter, it’s about Lea, and as such neither Mab nor Molly will interfere as it her personal business, not Winters Business.
We will I think see a Battle Royale between Harry and Lea at some point, the problem is Lea is immortal, Harry is not. It may be this is what gets Harry to release Ethnui, to take in Lea, and bring her to Demonreach. We haven’t seen Lea take on Ethnui, she was at the Gates during the Battle of Chicago, and we have had foreshadowing of the release of Ethnui.
And Mab will sit back and do nothing.
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Do you really think Lea does everything she does just for Winter? I believe in Changes she says that even she doesn't owe Mab so much to take out the Red Court for her, but wanted to anyway for their attack on Harry (and his child) - although whether that was the whole story is another thing. Lea is all about power. I suspect she very dearly wishes to supplant Mab - she called Mab her dearest enemy once. Lea isn't necessarily a good guy. How do you think Lea and Margaret met after all? They met when Maggie was becoming buddies with people like Raith and Arianna and Nicodemus...I'd say Lea is out for herself as much as anything.
I believe Jim did say that there would be a show down one day with Lea and Harry, but he also may have backtracked and said he might have missed his moment for it. He's still going to be very angry with Lea when he finds out the terms of the deal, I am sure. Lea isn't immortal though. Nigh-immortal like all Fae. But she isn't an Immortal as far as I am aware. She can't come back if she is destroyed. She can be killed if her defences are breached on any night of the year, not just Halloween (which only applies to capital-I Immortals).
Lea would have been curbstomped by Ethniu. In seconds. Even without the Eye. Even without Titanic Bronze. Ethniu is an order of magnitude greater than Mab. Mab. Mab is an order of magnitude above Lea. Lea is powerful and dangerous. But it would be like watching Tyson Fury take on a small, blind child. Consider also that Titania was stronger than Mab during the Battle of Chicago, and both got stomped. Along with essentially everyone else who tried to match it with her.
I don't think Ethniu can attack Harry once bound. The most she can do is try and break his will, pitting hers against his, just like she did when he was binding her. Which Harry might lose. But he might not either, he's done it before. Both of them were tired and weakened. Not sure how a full-strength match up would go, especially while Harry is on Demonreach. Then again, Harry thought it was a very dangerous and bad idea too.
Harry would have no problems binding Lea if she were in a circle. Certainly no issues while on Demonreach. But neutral territory might be a different thing. I would use Cold Iron myself in such circumstances.
I don't know the range Harry could control Ethniu over (assuming he can do it at all). But Vadderung has said everything has limits e.g. things get weaker and require more energy over distance (like the attack on Demonreach that he discusses with Harry in Cold Days). My guess is Harry would need to be fairly close to her regardless, and even then I doubt he could do it beyond Chicago. The Nevernever might be a different story though - the rules are a bit different there. But Ethniu is probably stronger there too...
Mira:
--- Quote ---Is it to do with how he is conceived?
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In White Night Lash Harry;
--- Quote ---"it's the why he was born."
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Perhaps I'm wrong, but that sounds way more complicated that finding the right place at the
right time to give birth. It takes planning, time of conception and matter of conception is very much a part of that.
Conspiracy Theorist:
Was Listen conceived and born to order? If so by whom and who were HIS parents. I have hypothesised he is a scion, mortal enough to qualify.
Mira:
--- Quote from: Conspiracy Theorist on March 06, 2022, 02:28:01 PM ---Was Listen conceived and born to order? If so by whom and who were HIS parents. I have hypothesised he is a scion, mortal enough to qualify.
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Even if he is a scion, that's even more planned, unless it is rape, but I guess you could call that planned as well. No, I think Listen was born a star born vanilla human who the Fomor kidnapped and altered over time to have gills etc.
BrainFireBob:
--- Quote from: Mira on March 06, 2022, 11:31:03 AM ---In White Night Lash Harry;
Perhaps I'm wrong, but that sounds way more complicated that finding the right place at the
right time to give birth. It takes planning, time of conception and matter of conception is very much a part of that.
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Magic is generally inherited from the female line and exposure to talent prebirth.
I rather think the deal with Maggie Sr is that she mastered the Ways young enough as a woman to guarantee a wizard-level offspring born whenever she picked via time manipulation via the Ways. The trick is a starborn with metaphysical capabilities. Since the Fomor favored the talented for their modification, I suspect Listens happens to have Paranet level talent. Maggie was still fertile when she attained that level of Ways mastery, and as a female wizard could guarantee foetal exposure to high level magical energy.
But Harry has a big, big talent. And not by chance. I think Maggie hacked the process, and her amulet represents the ability to create an army of starborn wizards next time around.Therefore, it's dangerous and the Merlin will want it smashed.
I think Thomas was a test run, with Valentine's picked for sentimental reasons. He might represent a 5 month objective 9 month subjective pregnancy kind of situation, as could Harry. Or vice versa- 9 month subjective 5 year objective.
Also, @Yuillegan, I think Edinborough represents the Erlking's old digs- his contribution to Odin's pet project.
Typed on mobile, sorry
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