The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
I'm A Bit Confused... Nemesis or Outsider or Both???
Mira:
--- Quote ---Now it could be that starborn have really strong resistance, not immunity, to Outsider corruption. This would explain why Harry didn't go full warlock from his corruption and why borderline 1st Law violations don't seem to have any affect on him. Killing the Turtlenecks with magic might make a regular wizard go full on cackling evil. But for Harry, it's no big deal. (Or they're not 1st Law violations at all). I'd have to carefully parse what Eb said in PT about it.
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Part of that is, can the Turtlenecks be considered human? They may have been when kidnapped, but they have been genetically altered, they have gills they can live underwater, so would killing them really be breaking the First Law? When does ordinary magic become Black? Just because someone dies, does that make it Black? Or is it just breaking the First Law?
Arjan:
--- Quote from: Mira on October 27, 2020, 06:41:50 PM ---Part of that is, can the Turtlenecks be considered human? They may have been when kidnapped, but they have been genetically altered, they have gills they can live underwater, so would killing them really be breaking the First Law? When does ordinary magic become Black? Just because someone dies, does that make it Black? Or is it just breaking the First Law?
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The outward signs are not the most important, it is about how the non material part is changed. And there is no hard border, being human has a grey area.
And with these cases it is only braking the law if the council says so.
Griffyn612:
--- Quote from: Bad Alias on October 27, 2020, 06:32:26 PM ---My specific question to Griff is whether or not black magic corruption is Outsider corruption. I ask this because I believe Harry was corrupted by black magic. If a starborn is immune to Outsider corruption, then Harry would be immune from black magic corruption if it was Outsider corruption.
Harry isn't immune from black magic corruption, therefore black magic corruption isn't Outsider corruption. (At least that's my thinking assuming starborn are immune to Outsider corruption).
Now it could be that starborn have really strong resistance, not immunity, to Outsider corruption. This would explain why Harry didn't go full warlock from his corruption and why borderline 1st Law violations don't seem to have any affect on him. Killing the Turtlenecks with magic might make a regular wizard go full on cackling evil. But for Harry, it's no big deal. (Or they're not 1st Law violations at all). I'd have to carefully parse what Eb said in PT about it.
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I think magic a spectrum of energy, with different types of magic working at different frequencies.
I think Outsider magic (spells, incantations) is on a specific frequency that goes Outside. I think the Outsider frequency is in the dark end of the spectrum, so it's dark magic, but not the same as other dark magics. Hellfire is a dark magic, but it's a different frequency.
Likewise, faith magic, soulfire, and other examples that we don't see much of are light magic.
I think mortal magic is unique because it's basically neutral, but the intent and the result can both change the frequency. If Harry casts fire to light a candle, it's not dark. If he does it to kill someone, or he inadvertently kills someone with it, then a spiritual backlash occurs that taints it as dark. That pain and suffering that his magic causes splashes back on his magic/aura/spirit/soul, and it stains it.
It's easier to picture it as paint. If every mortal starts off with a gray base paint, then how they use their magic will affect the color. Do something dark, like killing someone, and you're going to get a splash of black in that gray. Use your power for good, like making a baby laugh, and you're going to get a splash of white. And since every type of black magic is its own color/frequency, it can be distinguished from others.
Likewise, if you come into contact with magic that's dark enough, and it comes into contact with your spirit/paintcan, then stains can be left even without your involvement.
The_Sibelis:
--- Quote from: Bad Alias on October 27, 2020, 06:32:26 PM ---I'm pretty sure he's not.
My specific question to Griff is whether or not black magic corruption is Outsider corruption. I ask this because I believe Harry was corrupted by black magic. If a starborn is immune to Outsider corruption, then Harry would be immune from black magic corruption if it was Outsider corruption.
Harry isn't immune from black magic corruption, therefore black magic corruption isn't Outsider corruption.
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I don't think personally it's the same, but interrelated. My theory involves magic being an unbalanced force in creation and all that, but I simpler way to explain it, I have.(totally didn't mean to talk like Yoda, but there it is lol) black magic is the vector by which it travels as in
--- Quote ---, a disease vector is any agent which carries and transmits an infectious pathogen into another living organism
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we know Morgana's Atheme was a vector for Nemesis but have we considered WHY? Morgana was probably a black magic user, she used her Atheme for black magic and tainted it. Leah using something tainted with black magic is what then gave Nemesis the way in. So it's not necessarily the same to be relative to it. It's simply something that acts as the conduction agent.
*If copper were black magic, lightning would be Nemesis, and Harry would be made of rubber.
Mira:
--- Quote from: Arjan on October 27, 2020, 06:52:11 PM ---The outward signs are not the most important, it is about how the non material part is changed. And there is no hard border, being human has a grey area.
And with these cases it is only braking the law if the council says so.
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Which is a set up, or what the judge said about whether something was pornography or not, "I know it when I see it." What sucks is likely every Senior Wizard that was at the battle along with Carlos, probably made the same kills as Harry.
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