The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
I'm A Bit Confused... Nemesis or Outsider or Both???
Bad Alias:
--- Quote from: Mira on October 27, 2020, 06:41:50 PM ---Part of that is, can the Turtlenecks be considered human? They may have been when kidnapped, but they have been genetically altered, they have gills they can live underwater, so would killing them really be breaking the First Law? When does ordinary magic become Black? Just because someone dies, does that make it Black? Or is it just breaking the First Law?
--- End quote ---
I don't know whether the Turtlenecks, or any of the other borderline cases we've seen, count as mortals for the 1st Law. That's why I threw that parenthetical out there.
When magic causes the death of a mortal, it's black magic. Jim's made that very clear. He has not made causes and mortal very clear though. Also he hasn't made it clear whether or not any exceptions to the general rule apply.
--- Quote from: Arjan on October 27, 2020, 06:52:11 PM ---And with these cases it is only braking the law if the council says so.
--- End quote ---
The way I see it is that there is Law. It exists independent of the Council as a part of the fundamental nature of the universe. A rule of cause and effect. Do X and Y happens. Then there is the Council's rule that you can't do X. If you do X, we kill you. X being a "violation" of the natural law. What matters for the Council's enforcement of the natural law is their interpretation of it. Their interpretation of the law and what the law is aren't one to one.
What I'm getting from Griff and Sibelis is that black magic corruption isn't Outsider corruption, but is the fertile ground suited for the growth of Outsider corruption.
Arjan:
--- Quote from: Bad Alias on October 27, 2020, 07:19:36 PM ---I don't know whether the Turtlenecks, or any of the other borderline cases we've seen, count as mortals for the 1st Law. That's why I threw that parenthetical out there.
When magic causes the death of a mortal, it's black magic. Jim's made that very clear. He has not made causes and mortal very clear though. Also he hasn't made it clear whether or not any exceptions to the general rule apply.
The way I see it is that there is Law. It exists independent of the Council as a part of the fundamental nature of the universe. A rule of cause and effect. Do X and Y happens. Then there is the Council's rule that you can't do X. If you do X, we kill you. X being a "violation" of the natural law. What matters for the Council's enforcement of the natural law is their interpretation of it. Their interpretation of the law and what the law is aren't one to one.
What I'm getting from Griff and Sibelis is that black magic corruption isn't Outsider corruption, but is the fertile ground suited for the growth of Outsider corruption.
--- End quote ---
The councils laws are a human construct and while breaking them usually leads to black magic corruption I see them as separate things.
How you choose to use your magic is a very important choice that shapes you. In that sense every bad choice taints you and some of those taints are so black that it shows as black magic corruption. Others might be a few grey patches.
Outsiders are something different entirely.
Bad Alias:
--- Quote from: Arjan on October 27, 2020, 09:05:49 PM ---The councils laws are a human construct.
...
How you choose to use your magic is a very important choice that shapes you.
...
Outsiders are something different entirely.
--- End quote ---
I think the laws are an interpretation of the fundamental laws of the universe. They're a mostly, but not entirely, correct one. Like Newtonian Physics.
Black magic isn't necessarily an act of will. One can choose a magical act that isn't violent that results in death. That results in black magic taint according to JB. This isn't how I'd set up a magical system, but I'm not JB. It's more of a cause and effect thing.
I'm not sure Outsiders and black magic are entirely separate. Some black magic is very different than other black magic. Early in the books, black magic is just a perversion of the forces of creation. As we advance, Harry comes to the conclusion that there is another energy source in BR when he's dealing with the entropy curse fueled by HWWBehind.
Arjan:
Explaining Black magic is not even the purpose of these laws. It is all about preventing the worst excesses of the use of magic by mortals. There are probably plenty ways to darken your spirit without breaking the laws.
And there is magic that in itself is dark. You can use it without breaking the councils laws but it will still taint you.
Mira:
--- Quote from: Arjan on October 29, 2020, 05:08:43 PM ---Explaining Black magic is not even the purpose of these laws. It is all about preventing the worst excesses of the use of magic by mortals. There are probably plenty ways to darken your spirit without breaking the laws.
And there is magic that in itself is dark. You can use it without breaking the councils laws but it will still taint you.
--- End quote ---
I think of Black Magic is more of a drug addiction. It isn't always the easiest way to a goal, but it often is, so one is tempted to use it again. It effects the perception of the one who practices it, the adept who uses it begins to see himself or herself differently, power and superiority over others.. Until one ends up like the Koren Kid or worse, Kemmler.
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