The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
I'm A Bit Confused... Nemesis or Outsider or Both???
Griffyn612:
--- Quote from: Dimitri on November 01, 2020, 02:30:13 PM ---This is dragging up an older topic but I wanted to share my thoughts.
I suspect Justine was infected around the time of White Night (likely after but possibly before). It was right around the time she was clearly becoming useful to Lara and Nemesis could have learned of her through Vittorio either during or before the Deeps. The Justine we saw there was much more functional than the one we'd seen before (though meds were her given reason) but the Justine we saw from every other interaction was much more functional than that. Its likely she accepted Nemisis willingly (without it revealing what it really was) under the promise that it could reunite her with Thomas. (Which it did...) After that she was likely manipulating things from the background. Like pitting Marcone vs Formor in Even Hand.
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I think it depends on the nature of possession by Beside, which we don't know for sure. I could see it being a quick forced possession in the Even Hand adventure, or I could see it being a slow seduction possession starting around White Night.
But the comment by Maeve in Cold Days just seems damning to the latter. If Justine was already possessed and in Beside's control, there'd be no need for Maeve to call out that Justine was of interest to her, being so close to Lara.
Even if Justine was being slowly corrupted at that point, it seems unlikely that Maeve would spell out the reason that she was already being corrupted. It seems much more likely to me that Maeve and Beside had genuine interest in getting to Justine, and that slipped out when Maeve thought her win was assured.
Mira:
--- Quote from: Dimitri on November 01, 2020, 02:30:13 PM ---This is dragging up an older topic but I wanted to share my thoughts.
I suspect Justine was infected around the time of White Night (likely after but possibly before). It was right around the time she was clearly becoming useful to Lara and Nemesis could have learned of her through Vittorio either during or before the Deeps. The Justine we saw there was much more functional than the one we'd seen before (though meds were her given reason) but the Justine we saw from every other interaction was much more functional than that. Its likely she accepted Nemisis willingly (without it revealing what it really was) under the promise that it could reunite her with Thomas. (Which it did...) After that she was likely manipulating things from the background. Like pitting Marcone vs Formor in Even Hand.
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My theory is she became infected as far back as Blood Rites.
Bad Alias:
--- Quote from: The_Sibelis on November 01, 2020, 07:11:47 AM ---I really feel like him 'breaking' the laws is him doing what others have done and finding the grey areas.
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That's kind of where I'm at. It might also just be a book centered around someone else violating the law. I wonder what the "Thou Shalt Not Transform Others" book will look like.
--- Quote from: Mira on November 01, 2020, 09:55:29 PM ---My theory is she became infected as far back as Blood Rites.
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Yeah. I don't think it could have been any further back than that unless Behind was lying. For theorizing, I assume what we see on page is true unless we have good reason to think otherwise.
Mira:
--- Quote ---
Yeah. I don't think it could have been any further back than that unless Behind was lying. For theorizing, I assume what we see on page is true unless we have good reason to think otherwise.
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It was from Blood Rites on that Justine's relationship with the Raiths in general began to change, she began to work closer and closer to Lara. Justine also went through a bit of a transformation also that was mainly attributed to her near death from feeding by the injured Thomas. But what if it wasn't from the feeding?
Griffyn612:
--- Quote from: Mira on November 01, 2020, 09:55:29 PM ---My theory is she became infected as far back as Blood Rites.
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What do you think Maeve meant when she said this in Cold Days?
--- Quote ---Justine made a quiet sound and went to Mac’s side.
Maeve’s eyes fastened on her. “And the vampire’s crumpet. Luscious little thing, aren’t you? And so close to Lady Raith. You and I are going to have a long talk after this, darling. I just know you’re going to start to see things my way.”
--- End quote ---
It sounds to me like Justine is not yet infected, but Maeve plans to change that.
The only compromise I can think of is that Justine was infected with a shadow of Beside, similar to the shadow of Lasciel that worked to get Harry to take her in. But like Harry, Justine was resisting.
But if that's the case, I'd still want to know who infected her earlier.
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