The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
I'm A Bit Confused... Nemesis or Outsider or Both???
Mira:
--- Quote --- sounds to me like Justine is not yet infected, but Maeve plans to change that.
The only compromise I can think of is that Justine was infected with a shadow of Beside, similar to the shadow of Lasciel that worked to get Harry to take her in. But like Harry, Justine was resisting.
But if that's the case, I'd still want to know who infected her earlier.
--- End quote ---
Or it has to be triggered by an event perhaps? Because if Justine wasn't infected before Cold Days it had to have happened at some point since.
In Blood Rites it could have happened. HWWBh emerges from Madge's body.
--- Quote ---"I am returned , mortal man,"the demon said through Madge's dead lips." And I remember thee. Thou and I, we have unfinished business between us."
--- End quote ---
The thing is, it is something Harry remembers, but he doesn't say anything to HWWBh, nothing happens after that. Madge's body deflates, and poof, the Outsider is gone? How odd is that there is no direct interaction between an Outsider and Harry? Not one wise ass remark on Harry's part. It is also a very weak Justine who directed Harry and company to go and save Thomas. Was that what she was doing? Or was her real motive to get Harry killed trying to save Thomas? Long and the short of it not totally out of the question that she was infected, heck it might be the reason she survived the heavy feeding from the badly injured Thomas.
Griffyn612:
--- Quote from: Mira on November 03, 2020, 04:58:10 AM ---Or it has to be triggered by an event perhaps? Because if Justine wasn't infected before Cold Days it had to have happened at some point since.
In Blood Rites it could have happened. HWWBh emerges from Madge's body.
The thing is, it is something Harry remembers, but he doesn't say anything to HWWBh, nothing happens after that. Madge's body deflates, and poof, the Outsider is gone? How odd is that there is no direct interaction between an Outsider and Harry? Not one wise ass remark on Harry's part. It is also a very weak Justine who directed Harry and company to go and save Thomas. Was that what she was doing? Or was her real motive to get Harry killed trying to save Thomas? Long and the short of it not totally out of the question that she was infected, heck it might be the reason she survived the heavy feeding from the badly injured Thomas.
--- End quote ---
I'd still rather we have an event where she was at least exposed to Beside.
For now, I'd settle for something like this.
Stages of Beside's Influence
* Contraction - A victim is exposed to Outside power, staining them.
* Impulse - The stain grows, subtly changing their nature without direct involvement from Beside or anyone else.
* Influence - Beside can begin to whisper to them, as a voice inside their head, more directly affecting their decision making.
* Cooperation - The victim becomes aware of Beside's presence, and agrees to work with him for mutual gain.
* Domination - The victim has lost control to Beside, to the point that he can possess them and control their every action.That would be the natural order of operations for mortals, but an object like the Athame can expedite the infection to the point of near-immediate domination.
And we could see different levels of 'infection' in different victims. (Most of these are hypothetical)
* Sells - Impulse. His nature changed, but Beside never possessed him.
* Denton - Impulse. The belt changed his nature, but Beside never got involved.
* Kravos - Influence. Guy might very well have heard voices that progressed things along.
* Aurora - Influence. Beside whispered to her, influencing her ideas and plans, but without her awareness.
* Book 5? Mavra?
* Book 6? Lord Raith?
* Cowl - Influence. Maybe he's hearing voices, or maybe he's already on to cooperation.
* Lea - Domination. Thanks to the Athame, her progression was swift, but then suppressed by Mab.
* Vitto - Cooperation. He made deals for power to the point he was 'possessed' (most likely hosted) an Outsider. (Per weak WoJ, possibly Before)
* Namshiel's host - Cooperation. Possibly against the will of the Fallen.
* Book 11? Madeline? Skinwalker?
* Arianna - Cooperation? Trying to usurp her father?
* Book 13?
* Maeve - Cooperation. She was never controlled by Beside, but after becoming aware, she became a
* Cat Sith - Domination. Maeve cut corners and quickly advanced things, due to her authority over Sith and his lack of free will. willing conspirator.[/li]
[li] Book 15?[/li]
[li] Justine - Domination by then, but when did it begin?[/li]
[/list]
Potential sources for Justine's infection.
* Grave Peril - Mavra, Bianca, or the Nightmare infected her after the party. It started slow and ramped up over the years.
* Turn Coat - Skinwalker infected her with his belly swipe attack while attacking Raith manor. By Cold Days she knew she was infected but not cooperating, a la Harry and Lash. Maeve wanted to hurry things along at the end of the book.
* Even Hand - Justine was exposed to something on the mission to the Fomor territory just before the short story events, and Beside was already beginning to control.
The_Sibelis:
Idk, I think Aurora knew. She said what she was doing was the price set of something to that effect. Always made me think she made a deal with someone, in this case Nemesis.
Arjan:
--- Quote from: The_Sibelis on November 03, 2020, 06:04:09 AM ---Idk, I think Aurora knew. She said what she was doing was the price set of something to that effect. Always made me think she made a deal with someone, in this case Nemesis.
--- End quote ---
She was confused at the end. She had a destructive idea tailored for her.
I think she was influenced and her mind was changed with something like mind magic but different. She had no idea. She was clueless.
Mira:
--- Quote from: Arjan on November 03, 2020, 11:19:28 AM ---She was confused at the end. She had a destructive idea tailored for her.
I think she was influenced and her mind was changed with something like mind magic but different. She had no idea. She was clueless.
--- End quote ---
Yes, I think Aurora was a bit of an innocent not unlike Lily. Oh more intelligent perhaps and she knew her job because her mother was the Summer Queen, but there was a sweetness so yes, she was totally confused by what was happening to her.
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