The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
WAG - Harry has never met Justin DuMorne. His Justin was Heinrich Kemmler.
Mira:
--- Quote from: KurtinStGeorge on January 08, 2020, 01:16:21 AM ---At first I read, " he (Kemmler) hopped into Justin, corrupted him, then hoped out went on to someone else," I thought OK, maybe that works, but thinking about it I've got to question that idea too. It depends on Justin remaining in his own mind but being overwhelmed by Kemmler. Similar to a denarian taking over the coin bearer's decisions or nemesis taking over one of its victims. We don't have any indication a necromancer can do this. Corpse Taker could paralyze Harry and make him forget he was in danger, but she couldn't corrupt Harry or make him think in differently about right and wrong.
So where does this leave the idea of Kemmler jumping into Justin and then moving into someone else? Well, there is one candidate for him to have jumped into, Elaine. This might seem like a really nasty twist that would be emotionally devastating for Harry; "Yes, Harry Dresden, when you thought you were killing Justin du Morne you were really killing your first love," but it runs into the same problem of Elaine/Kemmler having more than a couple of decades to plan and pull off a dark hallow and not doing so, and Elaine/Kemmler playing private detective and helping minor magical talents survive the Fomor and other supernatural baddies. As Mr. Spock would say, "That is highly illogical." (And I mean real ST TOS Mr. Spock, not pathetic emo Star Trek Discovery Spock.)
--- End quote ---
Yeah, I don't buy any of that. I think Justin is the honest cop that got corrupted, after all the years
he gave as a warden to find himself with very little to retire on.. From there it was a slippery slope.
Bad Alias:
I don't think it was because he didn't have any money. See generally How do Wizards make a living? at https://www.paranetonline.com/index.php/topic,53261.0.html. I think he was either corrupted by Simon, who was a bit iffy, or corrupted for some other reason.
g33k:
--- Quote from: Mira on January 08, 2020, 05:33:52 AM ---Yeah, I don't buy any of that. I think Justin is the honest cop that got corrupted, after all the years he gave as a warden to find himself with very little to retire on.. From there it was a slippery slope.
--- End quote ---
I agree on that last sentence; "from there it was a slippery slope." But I don't think money was what brought him to the edge, pushed him over.
Justin was a wizard. What got to him was power, and/or knowledge.
Mira:
--- Quote from: g33k on January 10, 2020, 12:08:51 AM ---I agree on that last sentence; "from there it was a slippery slope." But I don't think money was what brought him to the edge, pushed him over.
Justin was a wizard. What got to him was power, and/or knowledge.
--- End quote ---
I wasn't as clear as I should have been, I was talking in terms of corrupt cops in general as far as money goes. Yes, power and knowledge, but at the same time let's not totally rule money out of the equation, because even wizards have to live. Up until Skin Game, unless he totally squanders his shoe box full or half full of diamonds one of Harry's biggest struggles has been to make ends meet financially. While he hasn't become corrupt because of it, a driving need to pay the rent has pushed him into making some less than wise choices in the past.
Wardens do get paid, but apparently not that much because in Harry's case at least, he still struggled after he became a warden. Justin might have felt that he had given the White Council the best century of his life with little thanks. This breeds resentment, which might lead to him helping himself to the skull/Bob when they took Kemmler down in payment. This dissatisfaction leaves him
vulnerable to outside influences that would capitalize on his dissatisfaction and eventual rebellion which made him complicit in the plans of the enemy. However Justin's reputation was so sterling that no one ever suspected until Harry took him down and even now many refuse to believe.
g33k:
--- Quote from: Mira on January 10, 2020, 01:21:14 PM ---... let's not totally rule money out of the equation, because even wizards have to live ... one of Harry's biggest struggles has been to make ends meet financially...
--- End quote ---
I think Harry is unusually impoverished, for a wizard. They have LOTS of ways to get rich, or just comfortable, should they choose to avail themselves. Many of them wouldn't get anywhere close to breaking any Laws of Magic, or break Mortal laws, either. I've always taken it to be DresdenStuborness(tm) (the unwillingness to do anything as "selfish" as making money easily with magic) that kept him poor. I mean, Harry is an unusually powerful wizard, with a decided knack for "finding things" -- how many lost/unclaimed treasures d'you suppose Harry could find, if he didn't think that was "icky"? I think it'd be a LOT... And it doesn't even have to be valuables that he takes to liquidate; I bet there are troves of documents that historians would pay a premium to get, and he could grab a cool million or more as a "finders fee," etc etc etc.
If Justin DuMorne was actually hard up for money, it was similarly a "choice."
--- Quote from: Mira on January 10, 2020, 01:21:14 PM --- ... While he hasn't become corrupt because of it, a driving need to pay the rent has pushed him into making some less than wise choices in the past ...
--- End quote ---
Yeah. Harry's stupid that way. Because he's got these magic powers, because he can do stuff... that makes him a real target for manipulation; choosing to be poor hangs a great big lever off himself saying, "Pull Here to motivate Harry Dresden."
--- Quote from: Mira on January 10, 2020, 01:21:14 PM --- ... However Justin's reputation was so sterling that no one ever suspected until Harry took him down and even now many refuse to believe.
--- End quote ---
Do we actually know Justin's reputation?
I mean, he was obviously known as a very combat-capable Warden (or he wouldn't have been on Kemmler duty)! Presumably, he shared in the general "Warden" rep -- the greycloaks are kinda grim, very dangerous, implacable, etc...
But what was his personal rep? "Sterling," or "another powerful greycloak," or do we even know?
But I think the "refusal to believe" is just human nature, they don't want to face it. Just like the mundanes will do almost anything to convince themselves that magic doesn't exist, that the supernatural beasties are just myths, etc.
Most wizards aren't actually very combat-capable (as the Spooky community judges such things). They don't want to believe that one of their Wardens -- the very ones who keep them save from Warlocks and other Bad Magic -- can turn so evil, and be so undetected.
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