The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers

Mab's Limits

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Bacail:

--- Quote from: Bad Alias on September 19, 2019, 01:30:47 AM ---Mother Summer was somewhat vague in how correct Harry was and specifically which way he was correct.

--- End quote ---

"He knew certain names.  He was not wholly stupid in choosing them, or wholly wrong in using them." -Mother Winter, Cold Days. Page 383 of the Paperback. 

Since he only called her by two actual Names (Atropos, Skuld) and Mother Summer said, "It was not an imbecilic guess, she said.  And, yes, she has been known by such names before. But you've only guess the name of one of her masks-not our most powerful name."  Atropos and Skuld are in fact two names for Mother Winter, but also two different names for the same aspect of Mother Winter.  And that aspect is only ONE of Mother Winter's, of which she has more and some of them might be shared with Mother Summer. 

Bad Alias:
@Bacail: Was it "the name" or "the names?"

@Yuillegan: The biggest piece of evidence is the the statues of the fairy queens in Hades' vault that Ascher identifies as Hecate. The way the statues are described are very similar to statues of Hecate with the exception that there aren't any ancient Greek statutes showing her as maiden, mother, crone. A chapter or two after we see the statues, Hades talks about Hecate's wedding gift to him, which is part of the origin story for seasons in Greek mythology.

That they are the Fates, and which ones, is pretty much confirmed by WoJ.

--- Quote ---Posted byu/thefran
6 years ago
Who are the other two Moiras?
Apparently, Mother Winter is Atropos, 'cept for a cleaver instead of scissors.

Mother Summer is more likely Clotho with her duty to grant life. This leaves Lachesis
jimbutcherauthor
127 points
·
6 years ago
Right model, but you've got it misaligned by 90 degrees. :)
--- End quote ---
If they're the Fates, I don't see why they'd be Hecate too.

Bacail:

--- Quote from: Bad Alias on September 19, 2019, 03:14:13 PM ---@Bacail: Was it "the name" or "the names?"
That they are the Fates, and which ones, is pretty much confirmed by WoJ.If they're the Fates, I don't see why they'd be Hecate too.

--- End quote ---
Names, plural.  Those are direct quotes from the books that i posted.  So that would mean that mother winter is both Atropos AND Skuld, among any other mantles she holds.

Bad Alias:
"she has been known by such names." Such - of the type previously mentioned. (Google definition). This means Mother Winter has been called by similar, but not necessarily the same, names before.

"But you've only guessed the name of one of her masks." Emphasis added. Singular. This strongly implies that one of the two names guessed is incorrect and one is correct.

This has been informative because it could be that the Greek name is wrong and the Norse name is correct. Therefore, the Queens could be Hecate and the Norns. The WoJ is vague enough that the "right model" has the wrong inputs and it should of been Skuld instead of Atropos. I still lean to them being the Greek Fates. If the second quote had been plural instead of singular, I'd say we've confirmed that Mother Winter is Atropos and Skuld, or at least part of them, but with it being singular, I don't see how she can be both.

Avernite:
My personal read of it is that Atropos and Skuld are both names for one mask of Mother Winter, referring as they do to the same concept (mask).

That being the case, I suspect the Fae started as two triune goddesses. The Fates/Norns/... and Hecate/Gullveig/... (or Freyja for the Norse version, or maybe Freyja is Gullveig, or...) being mashed together into the twice-triple Queens. Then they probably used the Stone Table to murder a bunch of other old goddesses (and gods, for all we know) and take their power.

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