The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers

Mab's Limits

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Regenbogen:

--- Quote from: Kindler on September 18, 2019, 07:27:00 PM ---If Mab/Molly/Mother Winter are Hecate, then what are Titania/Sarissa/Mother Summer? Are they also Hecate?

--- End quote ---
That doesn't make sense to me. Perhaps the essence of Hecate is spread over the world in different Trios. Summer and Winter Hecate being only one example. Shakespeare's three witches (bubble, bubble,...) and many more manifestations.

Hekate as goddess of magic, necromancy, crossroads, thresholds, in between, and guardian of the gates between worlds (translated from wikipedia).

... gates between worlds -> the Outer Gates...
Goddess of the inbetween. Human universe -> Fairie <- the Outside
Goddess of necromancy... What? OK. Didn't know that, but it makes sense because of the thresholds an in between.

How does that apply to Mab?
I think it doesn't. At least not to Mab alone, but to all three Queens of Winter combined. Mab is just the aspect of the adult one of the three, who is currently in charge though the Mother has still the last word if she wants to.

Bad Alias:
There is an idea from Neopaganism that Hecate (or really any triple goddess) is the maiden, mother, crone. "However, to Neopagans, as a triple Goddess, Hecate represents Maiden, Mother and Crone." http://www.hecatescauldron.org/The%20Goddess%20Hecate.htm. "Though the existence of a triple goddess associated with the Moon and with magic existed in classical pagan religion, the specific character of the modern neopagan Maiden, Mother, and Crone archetype is not found in any ancient sources, in which both Diana and Hecate were almost invariably described as maiden goddesses, with an appearance like that of a young woman." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_Goddess_(Neopaganism), internal citations omitted.

I don't recall how much of the following is confirmed and how much was commonly accepted theory here on the forums. In the DF, Hecate was a maiden, mother, crone god. When whatever happened with the Greek gods and fairies happened, Hecate further split in two. Her maiden aspect split into the two ladies, mother into the two queens, and the crone into the mothers. There is also something about them (the Fairy Queens) being the three fates, Clotho, Lachesis, and Atropos. In Greek mythology, Hecate doesn't have much to do with the three fates. It's all very confused.

Bacail:

--- Quote from: Bad Alias on September 18, 2019, 10:14:34 PM ---I don't recall how much of the following is confirmed and how much was commonly accepted theory here on the forums. In the DF, Hecate was a maiden, mother, crone god. When whatever happened with the Greek gods and fairies happened, Hecate further split in two. Her maiden aspect split into the two ladies, mother into the two queens, and the crone into the mothers. There is also something about them (the Fairy Queens) being the three fates, Clotho, Lachesis, and Atropos. In Greek mythology, Hecate doesn't have much to do with the three fates. It's all very confused.

--- End quote ---

Keep in mind that we have also seen evidence of more Norse mythos in Summer and Winter.  Recall in Cold Days when the mantles were passed that Summer's took the form of an Eagle and Winter of a Serpent.  Among other mentions of these two, its strongly brings to mind the Eagle and Serpent of the World Tree in Norse mythology.  Skuld (meaning Debt or Future)is one of the names of Mother Winter, who was just one of MANY Norns, though one of the three Big Norns (along with Uršr (Fate) and Veršandi(Happening or Present))  Also, Skuld was also considered a Valkyrie in two Norse poems.  So it's actually A LOT more convoluted than just Hecate.

Bad Alias:

--- Quote from: Bacail on September 19, 2019, 12:41:37 AM ---Skuld (meaning Debt or Future)is [possibly] one of the names of Mother Winter.

--- End quote ---
Mother Summer was somewhat vague in how correct Harry was and specifically which way he was correct.

Yuillegan:
The whole Faerie Queens = Hecate thing is just a theory. An interesting one, but by no means the only one. And it has never been confirmed.

What everyone always seems to forget is the sheer Power of things like Uriel. He is so strong he doesn't do contested violence, he has terminated galaxies and even whole universes (WOJ). Mother Summer and Winter are at the same level, and so apparently are the Walkers (HWWBh and HWWBf). But they are all limited because of their extreme might, and so can only use that incredible power in very specific ways at very specific times. This is all WOJ. And lastly, Uriel is considered a Senior Vice President of Creation. Assuming TWG is the President and Chairmen, I really highly doubt Hades and Hecate are at the same level. There are SO MANY gods. Thousands, possibly more depending on the limits Jim has set. There are only two Mothers, three Walkers and five Archangels. That tells you something right there.

And one more thing, there is a WOJ about how the Fae are agents of those whose influence was waning in the world, and so poured a whole lot of power into them in order to maintain that influence by proxy. This hints pretty strongly that many of the old gods put their power into the Fae in order to make them much more than what they were. This goes a long way to explaining their many links to the various religions and mythologies. There was a very interesting WAG that it was Hecate who all the power was poured into, but she was split in two (Summer and Winter) and the Queens are just different aspects of the original being, and the main bit that is left is Mother Winter (on account of the fact she has never changed). But that too is just a theory.

What is clear enough, is that Hades is not at the same level as the Mothers, and therefore cannot be as great in power as all SIX Queens combined. That would be insane. He would then be stronger than two Archangels combined plus extra. It isn't impossible I suppose, but considering everything we know about Power in the series and the various beings, it just doesn't add up.

Also Hades hasn't faded, he isn't like Vadderung. He simply is less involved - by Choice partially but also because of the balance of powers. See the WOJ about sleeping deities.

Morriswalters - Mab, and I suspect many other beings have some form of Farsight or Scrying etc. This is not the same thing as being able to hear and observe every thing that happens in the dark. Not in the same way Anduriel can. Don't you think that would have been revealed by now? No. It is more likely that when she chooses, she can try and observe various events as they happen (and perhaps see into the past and various possible futures, to some degree). Vadderung, Leah, Uriel and others have all shown the ability too, and I suspect they are far from the only ones. Hell, even Harry can view events happening from beyond himself either by scrying (using Little Chicago) or even through premonition.

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