The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Souls and Ghosts.
Arjan:
--- Quote from: nadia.skylark on January 13, 2020, 12:35:44 AM ---I found the quote. It's not as definitive as I thought it was, but here it is:So Uriel definitely refers to Sir Stuart in the third person when hiring Sir Stuart's ghost.
--- End quote ---
nadia.skylark:
--- Quote ---I found the quote. It's not as definitive as I thought it was, but here it is:So Uriel definitely refers to Sir Stuart in the third person when hiring Sir Stuart's ghost.
--- End quote ---
Do you have some actual evidence that hasn't been refuted? Because as I understand it, your only evidence is that Uriel hired him, and I've already provided reasons for why he'd do that even if Sir Stuart's ghost is a ghost rather than a ghost + soul.
Arjan:
--- Quote from: nadia.skylark on January 13, 2020, 06:04:56 AM ---Do you have some actual evidence that hasn't been refuted? Because as I understand it, your only evidence is that Uriel hired him, and I've already provided reasons for why he'd do that even if Sir Stuart's ghost is a ghost rather than a ghost + soul.
--- End quote ---
He is more substantial than most ghosts. He stayed behind with a special mission to protect his family. We know from Monty that is one one of the reasons Shades stay behind for a while, they have something to do. Lea has noted him as special. The way how Uriel interacts with him as an individual worth saving not as some magical appearance.
The whole tone of the book makes me think that Morty actually underestimates the number of spirits that have actually souls. But in the end it is not about one or two sentences. It is about reading ghost story as a whole and the impression you get from Sir Stuart. He is simply too substantial.
It is how the story is build up. We are shown the complexity of sir Stuart without explicitly stating it and Uriel's interest is the confirmation of our suspicions. Ghost story is a show not tell book.
nadia.skylark:
--- Quote ---He is more substantial than most ghosts.
--- End quote ---
So he's a strong ghost.
--- Quote ---He stayed behind with a special mission to protect his family. We know from Monty that is one one of the reasons Shades stay behind for a while, they have something to do.
--- End quote ---
We also know that ghosts can be formed because the person who died was focussing on a specific mission, and that the resultant ghost is therefore tied to that mission--it's what Harry did in Grave Peril.
--- Quote ---Lea has noted him as special.
--- End quote ---
And Jim has noted that ghosts that evolve and gain new power sources are special.
--- Quote ---The way how Uriel interacts with him as an individual worth saving not as some magical appearance.
--- End quote ---
Well, if Uriel didn't interact with him as an individual, Sir Stuart's ghost would hardly agree to work with him, would he?
Also, we've never seen Uriel interact with any being without a soul to my knowledge (except Sir Stuart's ghost, which, due to the current debate, is not evidence on this point) so we have no basis for comparison. For all we know, he treats everyone like that.
--- Quote ---The whole tone of the book makes me think that Morty actually underestimates the number of spirits that have actually souls. But in the end it is not about one or two sentences.
--- End quote ---
Tone's pretty subjective. I certainly never got that impression.
--- Quote ---It is about reading ghost story as a whole and the impression you get from Sir Stuart. He is simply too substantial.
--- End quote ---
The impression I got was that Sir Stuart was a particularly strong and substantial ghost who worked with an ectomancer, and possibly a line of ectomancers.
--- Quote ---It is how the story is build up. We are shown the complexity of sir Stuart without explicitly stating it and Uriel's interest is the confirmation of our suspicions.
--- End quote ---
Of your suspicions, please. I never had such suspicions, and I certainly don't view them as confirmed.
--- Quote ---Ghost story is a show not tell book.
--- End quote ---
And as I understand it, it showed Sir Stuart as a ghost that, while strong and substantial, was nevertheless a normal ghost.
If he'd done things like go through a church threshold, or disagreed with Mortimer when Mortimer told Harry that he wasn't the real Harry, saying something to the effect of "no, sometimes these ghosts we get from Karrin's dad actually have souls attached" it would be one thing, but he doesn't do any of these things.
toodeep:
--- Quote from: morriswalters on January 11, 2020, 06:37:41 PM ---My head canon is that neither Harry or Corpsetaker were ghosts. I only say this because both were capable of moving back into a body if one was available. We see this when Butters spirit is left outside his body after being forced out by Corpsetaker. On the other hand Sir Stuart doesn't appear to have this option. My internal canon says that Corpsetaker and Kimmler figured out how to encapsulate whatever it is that makes them human and detach it from the body, much as Uriel does to Harry. This in my canon is how they body jump. And if we assume that whoever gets dispossessed is still human, like Luccio, then they encapsulate the soul as well. So Corpsetaker could take a ride on a train.
--- End quote ---
Ya, that is pretty much how I view it as well. I really think that getting "almost dead" got Harry's spirit/soul a little less firmly stuck to his body, and gave him a better appreciation of other levels of reality. Now I expect that he will Astrally project on purpose at some point (essentially what he accidently did in ghost story). I suspect that the time travel we will eventually see will be done by an astrally projecting Harry, because it overcomes the entire "moving mass through time" issue and instead enters into the "is time real for spirits" kind of thing, and we've heard a lot about how linear time isn't accurate from Angels and stuff...
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