The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Souls and Ghosts.
Bad Alias:
--- Quote from: nadia.skylark on January 13, 2020, 03:32:37 PM ---
--- Quote from: Arjan on January 13, 2020, 08:29:49 AM ---The way how Uriel interacts with him as an individual worth saving not as some magical appearance.
--- End quote ---
Also, we've never seen Uriel interact with any being without a soul to my knowledge (except Sir Stuart's ghost, which, due to the current debate, is not evidence on this point) so we have no basis for comparison. For all we know, he treats everyone like that.
--- End quote ---
According to all Christian theology I'm familiar with and the "mainstream view in Judaism"1 dogs don't have souls, and we see how Uriel interacts with Mouse. (Now Mouse is different, and I think Jim might give dogs, especially temple dogs, souls in the DF).
As to the "worth saving" part, are "not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground outside your Father’s care. And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered."2 There's other similar Bible quotes saying God cares about "lesser" creatures than humans. These creatures would probably also be "lesser" than ghosts, so I would imagine Uriel would care for ghosts.
1: https://www.thejc.com/judaism/rabbi-i-have-a-problem/does-our-dog-have-a-soul-1.441160
2: Matthew 10:29-31 New International Version (NIV)
Arjan:
--- Quote ---Sir Stuart’s shade looked at Mortimer and smiled, undeniable pride in his features. Then he glanced at Uriel and said, “I still get to fight, aye?”
--- End quote ---
The word Shade is used for soul + spirit combination. I think you need very good reasons not to see Sir Stuart as a soul spirit combination and not the other way round.
nadia.skylark:
--- Quote ---The word Shade is used for soul + spirit combination.
--- End quote ---
Since when? I know that Corpsetaker is referred to as "Lady Shade" but I'm 85% certain that it's been used for ghosts that don't have souls (and aren't Sir Stuart's ghost), and 110% certain it's never been defined in any Dresden Files book as meaning "a ghost that has a soul."
--- Quote ---I think you need very good reasons not to see Sir Stuart as a soul spirit combination and not the other way round.
--- End quote ---
Here's a reason:
--- Quote ---In the Dresden Files ghosts are not trapped anywhere; they’re something new that had been created. They’ve been created out of memories into the form of something else, so as far as they’re concerned they’re the same person who’s now a ghost, but that’s not the truth of the existence. And when they end, they just sort of end in entropy, they just sort of trail away slowly if they use too much energy. Or if they don’t use much energy, then they just sort of hang around, and they … you know, it’s not much of a life, really. But it’s possible for them to grow and change, to find other sources of energy and become something else, but that’s kind of like, the exceptional ghost that does that, a particularly driven one. Most ghosts just sort of like, wander around and hang out with other ghosts, and they complain about the kids, you know “young’ns these days,” …
--- End quote ---
That's the definition of a ghost, given to us by Jim himself. Thus, any ghost not specifically noted as an exception should be assumed to meet that definition.
If you like, I can dig up the link to the youtube video where Jim is talking about it. He also says explicitly that ghosts aren't souls, and that the soul moves on after death rather than getting stuck, but I don't have that bit transcribed.
...
Look, is there any evidence you've provided to back up your claim that Sir Stuart's ghost is also Sir Stuart's soul that I have not refuted? Because I feel like I've gotten everything you've posted, but then you post things like this
--- Quote ---I think you need very good reasons not to see Sir Stuart as a soul spirit combination and not the other way round.
--- End quote ---
and I feel like one of us is missing something.
Arjan:
--- Quote from: nadia.skylark on January 14, 2020, 06:56:44 AM ---
Since when? I know that Corpsetaker is referred to as "Lady Shade" but I'm 85% certain that it's been used for ghosts that don't have souls (and aren't Sir Stuart's ghost), and 110% certain it's never been defined in any Dresden Files book as meaning "a ghost that has a soul."
Here's a reason:
That's the definition of a ghost, given to us by Jim himself. Thus, any ghost not specifically noted as an exception should be assumed to meet that definition.
If you like, I can dig up the link to the youtube video where Jim is talking about it. He also says explicitly that ghosts aren't souls, and that the soul moves on after death rather than getting stuck, but I don't have that bit transcribed.
...
Look, is there any evidence you've provided to back up your claim that Sir Stuart's ghost is also Sir Stuart's soul that I have not refuted? Because I feel like I've gotten everything you've posted, but then you post things like this and I feel like one of us is missing something.
--- End quote ---
You did not refute it.
I know that quote from Jim but that is about ghosts, not about shades. It is about most cases and clearly the book is not just about most cases and in the book Morty states that there are exceptions but usually not. There are exeptions and this book is about the exceptions. I have stated why I think Sir Stuart is such an exception. The other two are Harry and corpstaker.
A Shade is different from a ghost. I have checked all the usages of the word in Ghost Story and they all refer to spirit + soul combinations and one suspect, Sir Stuart so that is a strong indication. Add that to Uriel's interest which is an even stronger indication.
Mira:
--- Quote ---According to all Christian theology I'm familiar with and the "mainstream view in Judaism"1 dogs don't have souls, and we see how Uriel interacts with Mouse. (Now Mouse is different, and I think Jim might give dogs, especially temple dogs, souls in the DF).
--- End quote ---
All dogs go to Heaven.... ::)
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