The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Is there anything Mab can't command Harry to do? (Getting out of the WK idea.)
nadia.skylark:
--- Quote ---A weasel that keeps her word, which is more than you can say for Harry. Murphy tells him so.
--- End quote ---
He's broken one promise. Admittedly, he broke that multiple times, but so far as I can remember he hasn't broken a promise since Grave Peril. These days, I would say that he's more a weasel in Mab's style.
--- Quote ---To answer your second question In the relevant exchange Toot tells Harry it's Winter law and Harry says he didn't sign on, at which point the Mantle shows him the error of his way. While Harry may not know Winter Law, the Mantle does.
--- End quote ---
This doesn't answer my second question. Harry doesn't know what Winter Law is. Sure, it sounds important, but for all he knows it is part of the bindings on Winter faeries and it's part of his purpose as Winter Knight that he is not bound by it. After all, Harry can still lie despite having signed on as Winter Knight and iron doesn't bother him unless he's stabbed with it, so there's no reason for him to assume that just because Toot subject to a restriction he would be as well.
--- Quote ---Just because the Mantle is having a bad day it doesn't mean that it just quit working, it means it just quits working well.
--- End quote ---
...is there any evidence that the mantle is working apart from Harry's back being broken? Because I thought all the evidence pointed to the opposite.
--- Quote ---It turns out that the book doesn't support that position.
--- End quote ---
There's a WoJ somewhere saying that this point is deliberately unclear, and Harry doesn't know everything about what's going on. As such, I feel fairly confident that Harry contradicting my does not prove my position wrong.
groinkick:
--- Quote from: morriswalters on February 28, 2019, 10:29:34 AM ---It turns out that the book doesn't support that position.
--- End quote ---
The deal was that Mab would heal Harry if he became her Winter Knight. When Harry was going to break the laws of Winter, Mab reminded him of the deal. If he breaks his end of the bargain, Mab would return him to the state she found him in when they made their bargain.
Also Harry has been wrong in the books before. It wouldn't be unlike Mab to make him think that by giving up the Mantle he'd be paralyzed again. Just like Leah convinced Harry she gave him the ability to beat his former mentor when in reality she just gave his confidence a boost.
morriswalters:
--- Quote from: nadia.skylark on February 28, 2019, 02:51:02 PM ---He's broken one promise. Admittedly, he broke that multiple times, but so far as I can remember he hasn't broken a promise since Grave Peril. These days, I would say that he's more a weasel in Mab's style.
--- End quote ---
He lies in Changes. Which leads to Ghost Story.
--- Quote from: nadia.skylark on February 28, 2019, 02:51:02 PM ---This doesn't answer my second question. Harry doesn't know what Winter Law is. Sure, it sounds important, but for all he knows it is part of the bindings on Winter faeries and it's part of his purpose as Winter Knight that he is not bound by it. After all, Harry can still lie despite having signed on as Winter Knight and iron doesn't bother him unless he's stabbed with it, so there's no reason for him to assume that just because Toot subject to a restriction he would be as well.
--- End quote ---
Harry doesn't, the Mantle does. There is an existing legal mechanism in the real world which says ignorance of the law is no excuse. And in point of fact, this appears to be true in Winter. There is no Winter Law that says Harry can't lie.
--- Quote from: nadia.skylark on February 28, 2019, 02:51:02 PM ---...is there any evidence that the mantle is working apart from Harry's back being broken? Because I thought all the evidence pointed to the opposite.
--- End quote ---
So you want to ignore the broken back, because why? The text points to the Mantle being disrupted, which is different to it being broken. If you break your collar bone I'm pretty sure your whole day is gonna be shot, but your heart won't stop beating.
--- Quote from: nadia.skylark on February 28, 2019, 02:51:02 PM ---There's a WoJ somewhere saying that this point is deliberately unclear, and Harry doesn't know everything about what's going on. As such, I feel fairly confident that Harry contradicting my does not prove my position wrong.
--- End quote ---
Well maybe, I haven't seen it, but I acknowledge that it might exist. However it is pretty clear during the attack in the car Harry never loses his legs. And when Harry attempts to break Winter law by interrogating Lacuna his legs quit working.
@groinkick
Why would Mab heal Harry if she can use the Mantle to achieve the same results? By not healing him she retains leverage to manipulate him in the future as needed. She has a history of that kind of thing.
peregrine:
Let's not forget that Harry outright and knowingly lied to Susan when talking about how the armor would protect her in Chichen Itza. He knew steel would go through fae enchantment like hot knife through butter, and was Winter Knight at that point.
nadia.skylark:
--- Quote ---He lies in Changes. Which leads to Ghost Story.
--- End quote ---
Fair enough.
--- Quote ---Harry doesn't, the Mantle does. There is an existing legal mechanism in the real world which says ignorance of the law is no excuse. And in point of fact, this appears to be true in Winter. There is no Winter Law that says Harry can't lie.
--- End quote ---
This is all completely true. None of it refutes my point that Harry is not trying to weasel out of anything in that scene.
--- Quote ---So you want to ignore the broken back, because why?
--- End quote ---
Because I believe that Mab stuck an illusion in his head that it was broken, and that his back is separate from the mantle. If there is other evidence that the mantle is still active when Harry is stuck with iron, it would be evidence against this belief.
--- Quote ---Why would Mab heal Harry if she can use the Mantle to achieve the same results?
--- End quote ---
Because her deal required her to heal Harry before he became her Knight.
--- Quote ---Let's not forget that Harry outright and knowingly lied to Susan when talking about how the armor would protect her in Chichen Itza. He knew steel would go through fae enchantment like hot knife through butter, and was Winter Knight at that point.
--- End quote ---
Absolutely, but that wasn't breaking a promise.
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