The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Did Michael lie?
Mira:
--- Quote from: morriswalters on February 23, 2019, 05:55:06 PM ---The coins kick off the game when picked up by putting a shadow in the mind of the one who picked it up. Clearly the Fallen don't need consent to operate at some level.
--- End quote ---
Yes, and the shadow is the corrupting influence that seduces until the potential host accepts the coin.. Only then according to Michael, when the coin is rejected by the host can the host be free of it... Or that is how it worked until Harry, that is why Michael had a hard time buying that Harry had ridden himself of the shadow.
Mr. Death:
--- Quote from: nadia.skylark on February 23, 2019, 03:16:16 PM ---Maybe. On the other hand, sufficiently powerful beings are not contained by normal circles--Harry mentions it when he's discussing the super-circle in Fool Moon.
--- End quote ---
It's a solid steel ring, and the whispers Harry is hearing cut off when he empowers it. That seems to me to make it clear that Harry was able to cut it off.
Besides, again, the coin itself is a prison meant to keep the Fallen from affecting the outside world.
--- Quote from: morriswalters on February 23, 2019, 05:55:06 PM ---The coins kick off the game when picked up by putting a shadow in the mind of the one who picked it up. Clearly the Fallen don't need consent to operate at some level.
--- End quote ---
Sure it does. Harry picked up the coin willingly, right? And WOJ is that Harry didn't just put his booted foot down over it because on some level, he did want the power it offered.
And note that Lash keeps urging Harry to willingly take up the coin properly. Harry has to actively make a decision to use the coin's power.
Why do you think they needed to torture Marcone and Ivy to get them to take a coin? Because they have to willingly pick it up. You apparently can't force it on someone.
nadia.skylark:
--- Quote ---It's a solid steel ring, and the whispers Harry is hearing cut off when he empowers it. That seems to me to make it clear that Harry was able to cut it off.
--- End quote ---
It might just have limited the amount of power/influence the coin could have. I think of it as sort of like when you close a door to muffle the sound coming from the next room--if the noise is loud enough, you're still going to hear some of it, but it'll be quieter.
Mira:
--- Quote ---It's a solid steel ring, and the whispers Harry is hearing cut off when he empowers it. That seems to me to make it clear that Harry was able to cut it off.
Besides, again, the coin itself is a prison meant to keep the Fallen from affecting the outside world.
--- End quote ---
Except for Harry it was already too late, the shadow had already taken up residence inside his head by the time he got the coin buried and the ring around it. Apparently if the shadow had been able to seduce Harry the coin still could have been summoned as Lash begs him to allow her to do before she herself breaks free. So the "safe guards" of the ring and burying the coin in the ground were really ineffective.. If it had been any other potential host than Harry with his strong will and total fear of being taken over by one of the Fallen, the outcome would have been a lot different. Because of that soul gaze of one of the dying Denarians early in Death Masks, Harry knew he'd never willingly be tempted beyond a certain point.
morriswalters:
--- Quote from: Mr. Death on February 23, 2019, 06:12:17 PM ---Sure it does. Harry picked up the coin willingly, right? And WOJ is that Harry didn't just put his booted foot down over it because on some level, he did want the power it offered.
And note that Lash keeps urging Harry to willingly take up the coin properly. Harry has to actively make a decision to use the coin's power.
Why do you think they needed to torture Marcone and Ivy to get them to take a coin? Because they have to willingly pick it up. You apparently can't force it on someone.
--- End quote ---
Just because I answer the door when you knock, doesn't mean you can set up housekeeping in my basement. Obviously the child that Harry was trying to protect didn't have the capacity to understand what the coin represented. He couldn't have made any type of decision other than, "Look,shiney, let me put it in my mouth." Which belies the idea that you have to let them in by knowing what the coin represents when you pick it up.
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