The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
The Nature of the Creator
Arjan:
--- Quote from: Avernite on January 20, 2019, 09:36:36 AM ---Eh, I'd say the Bible is much less like that. It posits 'in the beginning God (or the Lord of the Gods) created the heavens and earth' not 'in the beginning was water/chaos'. Mind I might be overly literal here, but the Judaic version starts with the Creator clearly pre-existing (because He could do things, like creating or being Lord) while the Greek starts with just Chaos. As a result the Genesis version to me describes whoever created as a distinct being, possibly from Chaos but not necessarily.
--- End quote ---
There are scattered references to an older creation myth in the Bible. A quick google search:
https://contradictionsinthebible.com/yahweh-slays-the-primaeval-sea-monster-leviathan/
Mira:
--- Quote from: Arjan on January 20, 2019, 01:11:31 PM ---There are scattered references to an older creation myth in the Bible. A quick google search:
https://contradictionsinthebible.com/yahweh-slays-the-primaeval-sea-monster-leviathan/
--- End quote ---
The myths do overlap, not just for creation but for the flood as well.. There is evidence that there was a huge flood at the end of the Ice Age and populations along what eventually became the Mediterranean Sea were wiped out, this was the basis for Noah and before it Babylonian myths.
Bad Alias:
--- Quote from: Avernite on January 20, 2019, 09:36:36 AM ---Eh, I'd say the Bible is much less like that. It posits 'in the beginning God (or the Lord of the Gods) created the heavens and earth' not 'in the beginning was water/chaos'. Mind I might be overly literal here, but the Judaic version starts with the Creator clearly pre-existing (because He could do things, like creating or being Lord) while the Greek starts with just Chaos. As a result the Genesis version to me describes whoever created as a distinct being, possibly from Chaos but not necessarily.
--- End quote ---
Here is a quote from Genesis 1 NKJV (because it was the first google result):
--- Quote ---1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
--- End quote ---
I'm not disagreeing with you. The Christian creation story is very different. There is one God who pre-exists everything and not Chaos then a succession of gods. But, Genesis 1:2 is all about chaos with a formless void earth and the reference to waters, which is often seen as an image of chaos. The Greek Chaos "refers to the void state preceding the creation of the universe or cosmos in the Greek creation myths, or to the initial 'gap' created by the original separation of heaven and earth." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_(cosmogony). The Chaos concept tracks pretty closely with the first two lines of Genesis.
Here are some on point quotes from that article with subheadings in parenthesis:
--- Quote ---(Etymology)
Pherecydes of Syros (fl. 6th century BC) interprets chaos as water, like something formless which can be differentiated. ...
(Biblical Tradition)
Chaos has been linked with the term abyss/tohu wa-bohu of Genesis 1:2. The term may refer to a state of non-being prior to creation or to a formless state. In the Book of Genesis, the spirit of God is moving upon the face of the waters, displacing the earlier state of the universe which is likened to a "watery chaos" upon which there is choshek (which translated from the Hebrew is darkness/confusion). ...
(Alchemy and Hermeticism)
Because of association with the Genesis creation narrative, where "the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters" (Gen. 1:2), Chaos was further identified with the classical element of Water. ...
(Modern usage)
The term chaos has been adopted in modern comparative mythology and religious studies as referring to the primordial state before creation, strictly combining two separate notions of primordial waters or a primordial darkness from which a new order emerges and a primordial state as a merging of opposites, such as heaven and earth, which must be separated by a creator deity in an act of cosmogony.
--- End quote ---
The whole "Alchemy and Hermeticism" subheading is pretty relevant and also interesting in the context of the Dresden Files considering Jim has said that real world beliefs in how magic worked informed how he developed magic in the Dresden Files.
groinkick:
Hey Serack! Great to see you back on here. I think by definition TWG is on the Outside even if not an Outsider. He's supposed to have created Creation, and therefore "outside" of it, and not born from it.
My personal theory is TWG, and the Outsiders/Old Ones are like Ying, and Yang. Light, and Darkness, good, and evil, love and hate.
I'm not sure I believe in the theories about the Mothers, or Hades being Outsiders. Because of their apparent dependence on human belief it just doesn't add up to me.
Mira:
--- Quote ---My personal theory is TWG, and the Outsiders/Old Ones are like Ying, and Yang. Light, and Darkness, good, and evil, love and hate.
--- End quote ---
I agree, there has to be balance, the problem is when it gets out of wack and that is what under threat at this moment.
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