The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers

The Nature of the Creator

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Serack:

--- Quote from: groinkick on January 21, 2019, 03:05:34 AM ---Hey Serack!  Great to see you back on here.  I think by definition TWG is on the Outside even if not an Outsider.  He's supposed to have created Creation, and therefore "outside" of it, and not born from it.

My personal theory is TWG, and the Outsiders/Old Ones are like Ying, and Yang.  Light, and Darkness, good, and evil, love and hate.

I'm not sure I believe in the theories about the Mothers, or Hades being Outsiders.  Because of their apparent dependence on human belief it just doesn't add up to me.

--- End quote ---

Hmmmm, apparently I didn't communicate my conclusions on the MW/Hades section well (some redditors expressed similar issues).  I'm not saying they are definitely Outsiders, but that they have Outsider nature.  By which I mean that if they aren't Rebel Outsiders that hitched up with C=ROL as co-conspirators, they are the primal aspects of creation that have a nature that isn't as far differentiated from C=ROL's Outsider origins. 

Other posters are wrapped up in the chaos nature of "outsiders."  For my post, Chaos is a Chronicles of Amber thing, and I don't need the DF to follow that cosmology so closely that C=ROL needs to have an origin from Chaos.  To me, Outside, and therefore the pre-creation existence is so far removed from the mortal experience, I don't think it's possible or even necessary to characterize it as "chaos" or otherwise other than "outside" or non-dimensional as Jim says. 

morriswalters:
Anything is possible.  But if there is an Outsider Court of some type you haven't shown that the White God was one of them or that they are the only faction in the domain outside creation

raidem:
When I read the Amber series and tried to think how it would connect with the Dresden Files, I made the Dresden Files as an offshoot universe within the Amberverse somewhere.  Why?  Because Jim drew lots of inspiration from AmberMUSH.  And I like to have the Dresdenverse embedded in some way in this past inspiration.  That said, I'm sure Amberverse has past inspiration so it would be embedded in other past inspirations... I would also like for there to be Amber characters making an appearance in Dresden Files.


This all said, I formulated the idea that the nonvisited universe created by Corwin's act in Amberverse may parallel in some way the creation of the Dresdenverse.  That all said, probably not.

Yuillegan:
Great stuff Serack, certainly all very plausible. I can certainly see how Mother Winter and other destructive Powers might have Outsider origin, but as they are not "true" Outsiders they are still "for Reality". They are also able to fulfill their various duties as cleaners, wardens etc. Winter serves a special purpose in the DFU, and Summer exists to check and balance it.

I do think that a small spanner in the works is the Prince of Darkness. He isn't against Reality per se, according to WOJ, but he is against the idea of Free Will (or something to that effect). I do wonder about his purpose (either initially or currently). Interestingly, Lucifer is means "Lightbringer" normally interpreted to mean the knowledge-bearer (and if there is a theme in the Genesis, it is that knowledge is dangerous), but he is often referred to as The Prince of Darkness (named in DF) which is almost the complete opposite - these two ideas seemingly at odds. Perhaps he went beyond the borders of Reality and found knowledge that drove him to rebel against his Master and/or Creator? Perhaps he acquired some dark powers in the Outside? Did his nature change or did he fulfill his purpose? Or are they even the same being (we know one can be two...)?

The Dragons (like Ferrovax) also are hard to place. They are clearly high level cosmic beings, and had important jobs in the early days of creation (described as geological movements etc). So where do they fit in?

In my opinion, it was always obvious that TWG and the Outsiders/Old Ones were linked. By definition - TWG (as Creator) came before Creation, so must have come from "Outside" of it. That would imply some level of bond - even if distant - to the Outsiders. Garth Nix's Keys to the Kingdom series touches on this, with the Architect (creator) coming from "Nothing" (a similar concept to Chaos/Outside) and being a type (perhaps the first type) of Nithling (Nix's version of Outsiders). Nix never does go into why no other similarly powerful being then emerged after, however.

What will be interesting to see is whether any other Outsider Lords/Old Ones are of similar power to TWG, and why TWG chose to break away - even if it was just pure instinct. In a strange way, it reminds me of the Warhammer 40k Chaos God Malice/Malal, who represented Chaos' nature to turn against itself.

Arjan:
From Uriel’s discussion with Harry in ghost story you get the idea that if you get too much knowledge there will be no free will left and Uriel always refuses to give any meaningful knowledge despite Harry’s objection that without knowledge you can not make a meaningful choice anyway.

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