The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
The Nature of the Creator
Serack:
Hi all, long time no see. I've had a theory brewing in the back of my mind for so long that I'm not sure if it's seeds go back to when I first wrote my GUCMT theory, when Mother Winter seemed so resentful of Reality, when I read the scene with Hade's crown of Mordite, or later when I heard a WoJ from the 2014 DragonCon, but some recent topics on the DF reddit sub about TWG reminded me of it, and when I reviewed my GUCMT, I didn't see anything hinting at it, so I decided I have to write it out.
First, the WoJ, which my WoJ website has a link to the time stamp in the youtube video, but I didn't transcribe until I decided to write this out.
The Theory up front: The Creator of the DF Universe was originally a rebel Outsider Lord. (C=ROL)
Derivative theory: Some version of TWG (The White God) is the Creator, and thus was a ROL, and either he immediately created subordinates to populate/help create creation, or he brought subordinate outsiders along as fellow rebel outsiders to help.
First a WoJ that establishes some critical DF cosmological canon:
--- Quote from: 2014 DragonCon Q&A ---As far as the extra dimensional stuff goes, there’s /tons/ of extra dimensional stuff. It just happens that some of them are a bit more extra dimensional. Or in this case /non/ dimensional.
The established canon of the Dresden Files is that the Universe has been created, and there are things that come from Outside of Creation and don’t like Creation and want it gone because it’s so disruptive, and sucks. You know, from their point of view.
--- End quote ---
So it's a small step from the above WoJ about the DF "canon" that if the DF Universe was "created" there was a "Creator" or "Creators."
Next to get to C=ROL, it is reasonable to think that if there are beings Outside the dimensions of/non dimensional to Creation, they exist outside of Time (which is probably a big part of why they would find creation disruptive, I mean what a horrible idea bounding things with this new time thing?). So if Outsiders are non dimensional to time, and apparently want things back to before there was a time, it's reasonable that it was one of /them/ that is responsible for Creating it in the first place.
As for considering the Creator a "Lord" of Outside, well first, we know there is a hierarchy among the outsiders from White Night chapter 41 when Lash helped Harry overcome the Outsider psychic whammy in the Deeps, we get:
--- Quote from: WK, Ch 41 ---"He who walks Behind is an outsider Harry. A terrible creature, the most potent of the Walkers, a powerful knight among their ruling entities."
--- End quote ---
As for my derivative theory, we have the below WoJ about how Harry was able to enter Michael's house at the end of GS to see Maggie and Mouse:
--- Quote from: WoJ ---The presence of an Archangel, essentially an executive VP of Creation, probably had something to do with it.
--- End quote ---
Now for some circumstantial evidence for these theories beyond the above WoJ and logic:
Chronicles of Amber Parallels
In my old GUCMT theory I went through the effort to show some connections between Zelazny's Chronicles of Amber, and the DF, and drew some parallels between my cosmology theories and the underlying principles of that series. In this derivative theory, the parallels are more blatant, so I'll write a more detailed summary of those principles, and how they compare to the above WoJ about the DF canon.
In the Chronicles of Amber, there are many "mirror" worlds not unlike the Dresden Files "other earths that exist in the continuum of possibility" Jim has discussed a few times in WoJ I quoted in my GUCMT. The thing is before these "mirror" worlds existed, there was only "Chaos" until a "Lord of Chaos" rebelled, and created a polar opposite of Chaos known as "Amber" (which was, as the name implies, stuck in a perty stasis). The very act of creating Amber and having some progeny resulted in a continuum of "mirror" worlds that stretched from Amber all the way to Chaos. And just as Jim describes about the DF canon, the remaining Lords and denizens of Chaos found this disruptive and wanted to destroy Amber and, thus the derivative continuum of mirror worlds.
Some really powerful DF beings have hints of Outsider tendencies
Except maybe Ferrovax, the three most powerful beings we have seen on screen are Uriel, Mother Winter (And Summer), and Hades. Of those, I say Mother Winter, and Hades are either former Outsiders who still have a level of affinity for the Outside vs being totally cool with our Creation.
For Mother Winter, this thought became clear to me during Cold Days when I read the lines:
--- Quote from: Cold Days Ch. 32 ---Calculation and thought flickered through those green eyes, faster than I could follow. "Ah, yes. I see," Mother Summer said. "So many new futures unwinding."
"Too many bright ones," Mother Winter said sullenly.
"Even you must think better that than empty night."
[/snip]
'Time, time!" Winter breathed. "He is not your weapon."
"It is not your world."
--- End quote ---
This passage made me think that Mother Winter is /not/ fond of creation, or any fondness her power has is manifested through "Mother Summer" (MS) (which is how I interpreted MS's line that MW "cares in her own way." MS is the attribute of MW that cares, which is why I grouped the 2 entities as one above). This lack fondness smacked of outsider nature to me, although that's conjecture.
For Hades, when I read the Skin Game passage that his Crown is Mordite, my beta comment was "Oh... My... God..." This is because to me this implies that he can be blithe about mordite because he /is/ of outsider origins, or he his heritage is close enough to allow him to be.
Mira:
Why would Mother Winter be fond of creation? Her job is to clear away, and out of the ashes for
lack of a better word, Mother Summer creates.
exartiem:
So are you implying that Hades and MW are part of the original rebels who then rebelled against TWG, or that they are Outsiders who came here and dug the place and decided to set up shop?
Avernite:
It does remind me that the Greek cosmology I got taught in school started off 'in the beginning was Chaos'.
That said, Greek mythology doesn't make Hades a particularly Chaos-aligned person, and remember that Ivy/the Archive brought Mordite into Harry's duel. If Ivy can somewhat blithely walk around with a bit of Mordite, maybe Hades is powerful enough to not worry about a whole crown (and uses it for his image).
If C=ROL I'd say Mother Winter makes a possible lieutenant, as does say Satan and who knows, Kringle/Odin, but Hades doesn't strike me as obvious. Though of course if the Creator had more lieutenants, Hades could join the list after this top tier.
Bad Alias:
--- Quote from: Avernite on January 19, 2019, 08:19:55 PM ---It does remind me that the Greek cosmology I got taught in school started off 'in the beginning was Chaos'.
--- End quote ---
Most creation stories I'm the least bit familiar with begin with chaos or chaos imagery (as interpreted by Carl Jung). Water is often interpreted to represent chaos. I've seen that interpretation as far back as the 6th century B.C., and I've never been into that whole literary interpretation scene. That would make the Genesis creation story one of "out of chaos, order." There's also one I remember from elementary school, so I could be remembering it completely wrong, from a Native American tribe about a turtle's back being the first piece of land when all the earth was water.
Here's a piece from Jung's wikipedia page:
--- Quote ---Archetype – a concept "borrowed" from anthropology to denote supposedly universal and recurring mental images or themes. Jung's definitions of archetypes varied over time and have been the subject of debate as to their usefulness.
Archetypal images – universal symbols that can mediate opposites in the psyche, often found in religious art, mythology and fairy tales across cultures
--- End quote ---
So, if we believe Jung, there are certain images and ideas that are universally human. Therefore it wouldn't surprise me if Jim ended up with a lot of the same things. In fact, it would surprise me if he didn't. (That is, if I was one to recognize all that stuff. When reading, I prefer not to bother with analysis beyond "what does this mean for the story"). I mean, he would almost have to in building a world that allows a place for all those stories from so many varied cultures, and, what with him being a human and being subject to the same universal human psychology.
Getting back to the whole chaos point, while the Outsiders do have a great deal of order (they all act as one), they also have a lot of chaotic elements. They are associated with water. Chuthulu and other tentacled horrors associated with the Outsiders arising from the oceans. Most of the Outsiders we've seen on the Inside have actually been in the water (attacking Demonreach). They lack symmetry. Nemesis allows, perhaps compels, things to act against their nature.
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