The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Queen Succession Rules
peregrine:
As I understand it, Cozarkian is talking about Maeve's use of the word "Should." The Lady and Knight should be sexing like horny bunnies. The Mantles won't let them, but they should.
Cozarkian:
--- Quote from: Quantus on January 24, 2018, 03:07:10 PM ---I have to be misunderstanding you because this sounds entirely counter to the whole "Fae Cannot Lie" rule. She (physically) has no control over her words, against the mantle anyway. Even if she disagreed with the Mantle's rules/boundaries/etc it would still be entirely capable of simply Replacing the words she wanted to speak with one's it prefers, as it did with Molly.
She can think it's stupid all she want, but short of Nemfection that is not enough for her to knowingly speak an actual Falsehood.
--- End quote ---
She didn't say a knowing falsehood. She did not say the Knight and Lady can have sex. She used the words "supposed to" - which are a value judgment, not a statement of fact. It's actually a perfect example of how Fae can be devious and manipulative without lying.
raidem:
It can be used however to support the idea that the Knight and Lady can have sex. True, there is still the argument that can be made against it. Now, if she in fact meant "supposed to" knowing it is in fact an occurrence, then it comes that much closer to a lie. So, I agree with your statement that it isn't a lie, and it largely is an opinion but it doesn't preclude it from being a fact that the knight and lady can have sex. They definitely in Maeve's opinion should want to.
In any event, the point-at least in another thread-was that Maeve was trying to co-opt Harry for her purposes. Most likely to aid her in freeing the Sleepers prior to banefire. I forget to which purpose I place certain posts under specific threads. This one was the knight have sex with lady idea.
Quantus:
--- Quote from: Cozarkian on January 24, 2018, 04:22:04 PM ---She didn't say a knowing falsehood. She did not say the Knight and Lady can have sex. She used the words "supposed to" - which are a value judgment, not a statement of fact. It's actually a perfect example of how Fae can be devious and manipulative without lying.
--- End quote ---
Ah. OK, thanks, I am up to speed. What I am trying to say is that I do not think that the Winter Lady Mantle would let Maeve (absent Nemfection) make, or at least actually Speak, Value statements disagreeing with the Natural Order or Winter Law. Not purely because of the Fae's racial inability to speak a known falsehood, but because of the much more stringent and overriding responses we saw in Cold Case, where the Mantle would simply replace the words she intended to speak with other ones it was more comfortable with. The Lying thing can be circumvented by clever phrasing alone, but I think this gets more into the tangled interweaving of Bargains and Obligation, and in particular whatever the actual force behind Winter Law is.
Granted, I suspect they are driven by the same mechanism, on the logic that sworn Oaths and Bargains are far more literally binding to a race that is incapable of Lying.
Arjan:
Maeve can lie and her mantle murdering Harry is exactly what she wants.
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