The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Queen Succession Rules
Arjan:
I do not think you have to be a mother before acquiring the queens mantle. I think the mantle takes care of that, it will push you to become one.
I do not even think you have to be a virgin to get the Lady mantle otherwise Sarissa would have taken steps. Unless her deal with Mab prohibited it of course but even then.
raidem:
--- Quote ---I do not think you have to be a mother before acquiring the queens mantle. I think the mantle takes care of that, it will push you to become one.
--- End quote ---
The issue isn't to acquire the Queen mantle. The issue is for a lower Queen to acquire the Mother mantle. I argue the Mother mantle requires you to be a mother. And on the time element we are talking about worst case scenario where essentially all three Queen positions are vacant at the same time. There is no time for mantles to 'take care of that to push you to become one" in the case of pushing you to the Mother position which is what we are largely arguing about. The Queen mantle really isn't the issue as it's a bridging mantle that gives time to go from one to the other. But, as I said before, the extreme case in which we are talking about is the filling of the all three Queen positions and in particular the Mother position without having a qualified actual 'mother.'
Look, we have per Mab herself regarding the 'law' with regard to the Lady mantle. The Lady mantle would never go to a mother nor stay with a mother.
--- Quote ---You are the Maiden, Lady Molly. And for you to be otherwise, to become a mother, would be destroy the mantle of power you wear."
--- End quote ---
Balance and symmetry then suggests that the Mother mantle would never go to a non-mother. This would prevent the Lady from shepherding a candidate to the Mother position in a worst case scenario if the Mother mantle requires the wearer to be a mother. So this would mean there would be a powerful drive for the Queen to become a mother in case the Mother abdicates, dies.
raidem:
This is actually sort of reminding me of Jim's other series.
I mean we have Hive Queens that have conditions set upon them regarding procreation etc. As to pregnancy and the hero, we have the main character's magical ability stunted and himself camouflaged by his mom so that others don't learn he is the successor to the throne. This could be similar to my theory on Marcone descending from Murphy/Mab. We find out she gave birth to him and had him placed at a certain place in nevernever that had a different flow of time whereby he'd have an actual present life around the time of his parents. So, his parents are kept secret, his identity is further complicated by his complex origin in the timeline. Etc, etc.
That is going a bit off topic but there could be parallels between the Codex Alera series and this one with regard to familial connections, queen succession rules and procreation conditions, etc.
Arjan:
--- Quote from: raidem on January 16, 2018, 04:42:33 PM ---This is actually sort of reminding me of Jim's other series.
I mean we have Hive Queens that have conditions set upon them regarding procreation etc. As to pregnancy and the hero, we have the main character's magical ability stunted and himself camouflaged by his mom so that others don't learn he is the successor to the throne. This could be similar to my theory on Marcone descending from Murphy/Mab. We find out she gave birth to him and had him placed at a certain place in nevernever that had a different flow of time whereby he'd have an actual present life around the time of his parents. So, his parents are kept secret, his identity is further complicated by his complex origin in the timeline. Etc, etc.
That is going a bit off topic but there could be parallels between the Codex Alera series and this one with regard to familial connections, queen succession rules and procreation conditions, etc.
--- End quote ---
There is an obvious flaw in that. If the mother dies unexpectedly her mantle is taken by the lady who is not a mother at that point. So being a mother is not a prerequisite for the queens mantle, you become one after you get that mantle. There is no need to complicate things.
Changing mantle for the lady is just like growing up and the children will come soon enough.
If all three mantles are free the mantles might look for candidates themselves but it seems more logical that the lady looks for candidates and passes them through. One person would get old pretty fast but she can stay old for quite some time. Until the next crisis.
raidem:
That really isn't the comment to be quoted from though I get your point but it addresses other statements I have made other than that one.
--- Quote ---There is an obvious flaw in that. If the mother dies unexpectedly her mantle is taken by the lady who is not a mother at that point. So being a mother is not a prerequisite for the queens mantle, you become one after you get that mantle. There is no need to complicate things.
Changing mantle for the lady is just like growing up and the children will come soon enough.
If all three mantles are free the mantles might look for candidates themselves but it seems more logical that the lady looks for candidates and passes them through. One person would get old pretty fast but she can stay old for quite some time. Until the next crisis.
--- End quote ---
Again I argue otherwise, I think the Mother mantle requires one to be a mother. I mean her title is MOTHER Summer or Winter, I think that means something regarding the mantle. If you can't meet that requirement then you're not eligible despite teh Lady=>Queen=>Mother rule. I think that succession rule is in effect as long as the proper conditions are satisfied whereby Lady!=a mother and Mother=mother. It hasn't been spelled out but I believe we will find out later there is a particular rule regarding the Mother mantle similar to how we found out there was a particular rule regarding the Lady mantle.
--- Quote ---If all three mantles are free the mantles might look for candidates themselves
--- End quote ---
This is what I argue would happen. And what I argue would happen to the Mother mantle should the Queen not be a mother. The Lady is inherently prohibited from being a mother as that would be an instance in which the mantle would be destroyed. It's a complication outside the generic rules we know of so far. We have precedent though whereby the mantles aren't funneled through the Lady, namely the time when they were created.
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