The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Queen Succession Rules
Cozarkian:
In CD Mab explains Harry shouldn't kill her because Molly will have enough difficulty with the Lady mantle without being handed hers. Cold Case shows us the Lady mantle strives to prevent conception, rather than just forcing miscarriages. The above suggests that the definition of Mother requires conception, not birth. Likely, the Lady conceives around the time she gets the Queen mantle.
Personally, I think the Queen mantle jumps to the WK and drives the WK to have sex with the Lady. The act of consumation passes the Queen mantle to the Lady and drives the Lady mantle out. This would mean when Mab indicated Harry would be handing Molly her mantle, she meant that literally, not figuratively.
That is why sex was part of the ritual for Mab to make Harry the WK, because it is a tribute to the ritual that the WK makes the Queen.
The other question is whether the WK can always have sex with the Lady (which would add a new twist to why Marve put some much effort into seducing Harry in CD) or whether he needs the Queen mantle to overcome the defenses.
The above preserves the rule of Maiden/Mother while cleanly allowing the transfer of the mantle down the line.
raidem:
--- Quote ---In CD Mab explains Harry shouldn't kill her because Molly will have enough difficulty with the Lady mantle without being handed hers.
--- End quote ---
It's clear that the Lady can become Queen without being a mother. I'm not arguing that one at all. I'm just arguing the case regarding the Mother.
--- Quote ---Cold Case shows us the Lady mantle strives to prevent conception, rather than just forcing miscarriages. The above suggests that the definition of Mother requires conception, not birth. Likely, the Lady conceives around the time she gets the Queen mantle.
--- End quote ---
I don't think the mantle could force a miscarriage that would probably be against the 'law.' I think the defense mechanism is against sex to prevent conception, sex isn't the point at which the mantle is destroyed. That point is a bit further down the road as to what constitutes 'motherhood' of which I'm not sure what exactly that means regarding birth or just conception?
So, what do you guys think? Is the point at which the Lady mantle is unmade, as defined by 'motherhood,' conception or birth?
Let's clear something up. Capital Mother refers to say Mother Summer or Winter or their mantles, lowercase mother refers to simply being a mother. Maybe I should go with MOTHER for the Mother mantles or titles instead. Queen refers only to the Mab, Titania position. Oh, I see where some of the confusion might be coming from, Mab's quote regarding the law or at least when she is talking about it says "Maiden, Mother, Crone." This has the titles different than the Queen titles Lady, Queen, Mother. So, again I'm suggesting the Maiden could never be a mother until she acquired the Mother mantle. The Mother could never be a Crone until she actually was a mother. So as long as those conditions existed within the regular succession rules the argument is largely irrelevant as it's a normal case. In case of a abnormal case in which the Mother/Queen (Mab or Titania) isn't a mother then the Crone mantle may seek out one who is.
Quantus:
I suspect it to be fuzzily defined, shifting with the common social outlook and the Nature of Magic, which could be why the Mantle seems to be taking safety-minded approach of protecting against the most conservative/restrictive definition to be safe. Thus if it prevents the Act itself then it can be certain of preventing all other questionable circumstances, rather than having to adjust itself (fundamentally anti-Winter, that) to the evolving nature of Magic that seems to experience cyclic changes every few centuries.
Fwiw, if this is true then I suspect Summer's Lady Mantle operates with a bit more finesse.
Arjan:
--- Quote from: raidem on January 16, 2018, 05:33:16 PM ---That really isn't the comment to be quoted from though I get your point but it addresses other statements I have made other than that one.
Again I argue otherwise, I think the Mother mantle requires one to be a mother. I mean her title is MOTHER Summer or Winter, I think that means something regarding the mantle. If you can't meet that requirement then you're not eligible despite teh Lady=>Queen=>Mother rule. I think that succession rule is in effect as long as the proper conditions are satisfied whereby Lady!=a mother and Mother=mother. It hasn't been spelled out but I believe we will find out later there is a particular rule regarding the Mother mantle similar to how we found out there was a particular rule regarding the Lady mantle.
This is what I argue would happen. And what I argue would happen to the Mother mantle should the Queen not be a mother. The Lady is inherently prohibited from being a mother as that would be an instance in which the mantle would be destroyed. It's a complication outside the generic rules we know of so far. We have precedent though whereby the mantles aren't funneled through the Lady, namely the time when they were created.
--- End quote ---
But another thing has been spelled out. If Mab dies Molly gets the queens mantle and shou can not be a mother at that moment.
groinkick:
--- Quote from: Arjan on January 16, 2018, 07:32:02 PM ---But another thing has been spelled out. If Mab dies Molly gets the queens mantle and shou can not be a mother at that moment.
--- End quote ---
It's been inferred that Molly would become Queen. Leah is second to Mab. She's cunning, dangerous, and ambitious. Don't be shocked if Leah has plans to get Mab's Mantle.
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