The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Denarian Dresden
wardenferry419:
Mab willing tortured a sadistic killer out of revenge for helping to nearly destroy the world.
Nicodemus willing tortured a child whose power could potential destroy the world.
Mab used Harry to kill her daughter to prevent her from destroying Demonreach.
Nicodemus personally killed his daughter in order to gain an object of power.
Mab made a deal with Harry for power that led to the elimination of a vampire infestation in order to gain an ally.
Nicodemus was going to use Harry's blood to cause a plague just to see what happens.
See the difference?
Anubissama:
--- Quote from: wardenferry419 on September 09, 2017, 09:18:23 PM ---Mab willing tortured a sadistic killer out of revenge for helping to nearly destroy the world.
Nicodemus willing tortured a child whose power could potentially destroy the world.
--- End quote ---
Mab willingly tortured a mind control victim forced into heroin addiction, for nothing but vengeance. Purely punitive imprisonment is barbaric. Not to forget that the torture stretched for nearly 10 years, went beyond what's physiologically possible for a human body to sustain and literally turned him mad.
But you know we like Ivy and Shiro, but don't like the mentally unstable heroin addict. So it's a "that's Maaab" (sitcom laughter) for one and pitchforks and torches for Nic. Says more about us than the two.
--- Quote from: wardenferry419 on September 09, 2017, 09:18:23 PM ---Nicodemus personally killed his daughter in order to gain an object of power.
--- End quote ---
What does it matter who does the killing? The instigator and result are the same. Parent, dead child.
And I fully admit if it ever turns out that Nicodemus is doing this just to get personal power I'll admit he is E evil, but from all the hints we have so far it seems more than likely that Nicodemus has an end game goal that fights the Outsiders. Which we also use to justify all that Mab does, so again they are at worst equal.
--- Quote from: wardenferry419 on September 09, 2017, 09:18:23 PM ---Mab made a deal with Harry for power that led to the elimination of a vampire infestation in order to gain an ally.
--- End quote ---
She did that to gain a tool. Mab stressed herself that what the Red Court is doing means nothing to her, which actually puts Nic in a better light than her since he says that he doesn't like the Red Court, and implies that he would deal with them at some point too. So Mab is a-okay with letting the Reds run amok as long as they don't touch fairy, Nicodemus had them on his to-do list.
Anyway, you can't give Mab credit for the elimination of the Court. Especially since Dresden had 2 other means of finishing the job (Dark Hallow, and what we are discussing here). All credit of the Courts death is Harrys. Although I'm sure the Winter Court and White Council did everything they could to credit hog.
Arjan:
--- Quote from: Anubissama on September 09, 2017, 01:02:08 PM ---Furthermore, you can't say "because they oppose the White God they are E evil'. Remember in the Dresdenverse the genocide of the Firstborn of Egypt is a real historical event. So the "good" guys are not above killing children and babies to make a political statement. As such the Angel side doesn't hold the morally superior position any longer, and just being against them doesn't make you automatically E evil.
--- End quote ---
But you can say because they oppose the knights of the cross....
Those things are not the same after all if you ask Lasciel she is still doing gods will...
wardenferry419:
Mab is not a saint and Nico is not a saint. Both have lived a long time and done many bad things. But, I would sooner take Mab's word over Nico's. Nico starts problems and Mab resolves problems. Mab haas to be cold and calculating as her mantle demands. Nico can be charming when he wants or have temper-tantrums when he wants. Mab has responsibilities to manage. Nico has whatever whim or scheme he is currently cooking.Never hate one person for doing their job while admiring another person who is playing around.
maGoh12:
--- Quote from: DonBugen on September 09, 2017, 05:28:26 PM ---So yee WG is a bit of prick here, not only killing babies but also mind controlling the pharaoh in to not agreeing so that he can torture him some more.
I just want to say, this is one area in which the Dresden Files' White God doesn't match up with our world's Christian God. I have a feeling that this section of the Dresden Bible might be different, sort of like how Thomas' "Faith, Hope and Love" quotation was so obviously different (beyond a reasonable allowance for paraphrase). TWG and his followers have outright stated time and time again, and demonstrated time and time again, that their greatest priority is the preservation of freedom of choice.
I'm not arguing Christian morality or theology, I'm using the Bible in the same way that Harry mentioned the story of Persephone to Hades. Besides, that bit about TWG was just a minor point.
At this point, we know the worst that Mab has done, and we know the reasons why. However, as for Nicodemus we know the worst that he's done - which is far worse then Mab - and you only have some guesses as to the reasons why. The only way in which Nicodemus' actions are not seen as an atrocity would be if he is trying to do some amazing fantastic wonderful thing that saves the entire world. And that is just so much hypothesis.
Besides, I think that an intellectual evil and temptation is far more difficult to contract than an emotional one. If a person is being emotionally tempted, they can usually reason and logic their way out of it. But if I'm being tempted using intelligence, logic, reasoning, by a being a million times more intelligent than I am, how would a person counteract that?
Maybe, possibly, it might be easier to walk away from a coin. But I think that the collateral damage would be far greater.
--- End quote ---
The party about God hardening Pharaoh's heart is straight out of the real Bible. Exodus 7:3-4 says He would do it. Exodus 9:12 says he did it. Strictly in the context of the Dresdenverse, and not speaking about Christian theology in the real world at all, it is kind of a dick move.
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