The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Denarian Dresden
Con:
Nic has all but confirmed he fights Outsiders.
And I agree with Anubissama that Mab is not least Evil. Add to the fact that she commands thousands of evil beings. Add to that fact the revelation in Cold Case. Mab is not the lesser evil. Jim calls her the most predictale evil despite the fact that the Fae are notoriously not predictable. Dresden had personal experience with the Denarians and had bested them twice. Their number of evil beings is thirty not thousands plus a couple dozen squires. Dresden also had knowledge of how Lasciel worked through her shadow who turned into Lash.
I like to believe that with his use of soulfire Harry could have done something similar with Lasciel. or atleast provided some interesting contrast as mentioned above. Soulfire and Hellfire.
Arjan:
--- Quote from: Con on September 09, 2017, 01:42:33 AM ---Nic has all but confirmed he fights Outsiders.
--- End quote ---
Which all but confirms he doesn't.
--- Quote ---And I agree with Anubissama that Mab is not least Evil. Add to the fact that she commands thousands of evil beings. Add to that fact the revelation in Cold Case.
--- End quote ---
That evil is not that different from the evil of most nations who in times of war and desperation conscript their youth and use them as fodder. Mab probably takes better care of her people than the generals and politicians in the first world war did.
--- Quote --- Mab is not the lesser evil. Jim calls her the most predictale evil despite the fact that the Fae are notoriously not predictable.
--- End quote ---
Mab is more predictable because she has a purpose. Because she has nature, rules.
The only thing predictable about the denarians is that they will lie to you and betray you.
--- Quote ---Dresden had personal experience with the Denarians and had bested them twice. Their number of evil beings is thirty not thousands plus a couple dozen squires.
--- End quote ---
And yet those thirty do more evil than all Mabs cohorts together. That is because it is their purpose to do evil things.
--- Quote ---Dresden also had knowledge of how Lasciel worked through her shadow who turned into Lash.
I like to believe that with his use of soulfire Harry could have done something similar with Lasciel. or atleast provided some interesting contrast as mentioned above. Soulfire and Hellfire.
--- End quote ---
Soulfire and hellfire can not be combined, you have to choose between the two.
Anubissama:
You can't say that the Denari are Capital E Evil without knowing their goals.
Apparently, you are quite okay with calling Mab a "predictable evil" or a lesser evil while her actions include things like: torturing people into insanity for decades, killing sentient feeling beings on the spot for no good reason, abducting babies and turning them into child soldiers. You accept all this because of her purpose fighting Outsiders.
As far as we know Nic is also against the Outsiders, he seemed genuinely outraged and upset about the fact that a Denari might be nemfected. And just saying I don't believe him isn't argument enough. The whole aquarium scene implies heavily that Nic is aware of the Outsider threat and works against it, be it by cruel means but it seems to be his goal.
He is angry at the notion that a Denari is infected, he is in principal against the Red Court who works together with the Outsiders. You have plenty of evidence that he is an "ends justify the means" antihero.
Furthermore, you can't say "because they oppose the White God they are E evil'. Remember in the Dresdenverse the genocide of the Firstborn of Egypt is a real historical event. So the "good" guys are not above killing children and babies to make a political statement. As such the Angel side doesn't hold the morally superior position any longer, and just being against them doesn't make you automatically E evil.
Rememebr, history is written by the victor, and if there is anything the church is good at its propaganda. Maybe Lucifer was a proud rebel spitting in the face of a loving father, or maybe he was a freedom fighter trying to save his brethren from tyranny and enslavement and was ready to fight for what he believed to be the right thing, damn the costs.
Snark Knight:
--- Quote from: Arjan on September 09, 2017, 05:23:44 AM ---Which all but confirms he doesn't.
And yet those thirty do more evil than all Mabs cohorts together. That is because it is their purpose to do evil things. Soulfire and hellfire can not be combined, you have to choose between the two.
--- End quote ---
Agreed that the Denarians are worse. But I don't think we can conclude Nicodemus' reaction to the probable Nem-fection of one of his own was a lie. Which is the more effective at deceit - lying all the time, or some lies mixed with some truths? And if Deirdre was just lying outright that their agenda is "to save the world", why? She had to know there was no was Harry would have believed that at the time.
Even if Hell's apocalypse isn't primarily meant as a drastic measure against Outsiders, an Empty Night win condition for the Outsiders would still bone Nic's plans to achieve the apocalypse on his terms. They're at minimum a competitor, if not right up there with Heaven as his main enemies.
Arjan:
Of course anicodemus mixes truth with lies but consider the following.
We have here one isolated statement without any supporting evidence presented as evidence for Nicodemus motivations and aims. Exactly the thing he would most likely lie about. Ask Kringle.
Then we add the context. Nicodemus had a motive. He wanted to show Harry that they had compatible goals. That Harry could work with Nicodemus, that he could work with Lasciel.
Nicodemus had a good reason to lie, he had a good reason to invent common enemies.
But if Nicodemus was really such an asset against the outsiders Mab and Odin would not work against him.
So at least his statement proves nothing but considering the known context and his career I think we can safely assume it is a lie.
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