The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Murphy in Peace Talks (WoJ spoilers)
Mr. Death:
My biggest problem with the "someone must be a traitor" thing -- aside from literally everyone in Harry's inner circle having proven themselves time and again to be totally on his side -- is that the suggestion that someone could be a traitor comes from Lily, who got all her information from Maeve, who was an agent of Nemesis and therefore had every motivation to lie her frigid butt off and sow dissent among her enemies.
If there is a traitor among Harry's crew, it'd make a lot more sense for Maeve to get Lily to tell Dresden he's safe.
On the other hand, if there is not a traitor among Harry's crew, then telling him there is one is a great way to start putting wedges between people.
Kindler:
--- Quote from: Mr. Death on August 15, 2017, 03:43:15 PM ---My biggest problem with the "someone must be a traitor" thing -- aside from literally everyone in Harry's inner circle having proven themselves time and again to be totally on his side -- is that the suggestion that someone could be a traitor comes from Lily, who got all her information from Maeve, who was an agent of Nemesis and therefore had every motivation to lie her frigid butt off and sow dissent among her enemies.
If there is a traitor among Harry's crew, it'd make a lot more sense for Maeve to get Lily to tell Dresden he's safe.
On the other hand, if there is not a traitor among Harry's crew, then telling him there is one is a great way to start putting wedges between people.
--- End quote ---
Mirrors my thoughts pretty well. I do think that there is a high probability of conflicting loyalties, but not outright betrayal. Thomas having to make bad choices during the course of the Oblivion War, Molly obviously having to fulfill her role as Winter Lady, Billy choosing his wife and daughter over Harry—that kind of thing.
The only one who doesn't really have a chance for any conflicting loyalty at all is Murphy. She's the least likely candidate to turn on Harry, at least now. Her family is (presumably) estranged and/or dead (I'm assuming that Jim's "Murphy's funeral" comment refers to her mother, and Karrin and her sister don't get along, especially after she married her ex-husband), her friends and allies on the force aren't doing much for her anymore (considering she has to ally herself with someone like Marcone rather than feed information directly to SI)... pretty much the only thing she has to hold on to is Harry and company. He's the one who brought her into all of the conflicts she participates in now, so it's not even as though she'd need to keep secrets from him, like Thomas does.
The only motivation she'd have to turn on him would be a feeling of inadequacy compelling her to seek a power-up that changes her personality, and I really, really doubt she'd do it willingly. Especially not after the mental invasion that she still has PTSD over.
Rasins:
It'd be really cool if Mirror Mirror revealed any traitors.
Quantus:
--- Quote from: Kindler on August 15, 2017, 04:53:01 PM ---Mirrors my thoughts pretty well. I do think that there is a high probability of conflicting loyalties, but not outright betrayal. Thomas having to make bad choices during the course of the Oblivion War, Molly obviously having to fulfill her role as Winter Lady, Billy choosing his wife and daughter over Harry—that kind of thing.
The only one who doesn't really have a chance for any conflicting loyalty at all is Murphy. She's the least likely candidate to turn on Harry, at least now. Her family is (presumably) estranged and/or dead (I'm assuming that Jim's "Murphy's funeral" comment refers to her mother, and Karrin and her sister don't get along, especially after she married her ex-husband), her friends and allies on the force aren't doing much for her anymore (considering she has to ally herself with someone like Marcone rather than feed information directly to SI)... pretty much the only thing she has to hold on to is Harry and company. He's the one who brought her into all of the conflicts she participates in now, so it's not even as though she'd need to keep secrets from him, like Thomas does.
The only motivation she'd have to turn on him would be a feeling of inadequacy compelling her to seek a power-up that changes her personality, and I really, really doubt she'd do it willingly. Especially not after the mental invasion that she still has PTSD over.
--- End quote ---
I think all of that is beside the point here. If Nemesis can simply Replace an ally, possess them into a perfect infiltrator, their past or current motivations, and any past Trust, is inherently suspect. It's playing on the Red Scare Witchhunt Mindset: ANYONE can be(come) a traitor at any Time, which undermines the very concept of earned Trust.
And I think /That/ was the value to Nemesis via Maeve via Lily telling Harry about it all. She didnt finger anyone specific, and in particular didnt try to draw a specific line of "Your inner Circle is Safe" vs "Your Inner Circle is Suspect". She just described a situation where innately Trust cannot survive, planting a hell of a powerful Seed of Distrust.
Rasins:
--- Quote from: Quantus on August 15, 2017, 05:53:06 PM ---I think all of that is beside the point here. If Nemesis can simply Replace an ally, possess them into a perfect infiltrator, their past or current motivations, and any past Trust, is inherently suspect. It's playing on the Red Scare Witchhunt Mindset: ANYONE can be(come) a traitor at any Time, which undermines the very concept of earned Trust.
And I think /That/ was the value to Nemesis via Maeve via Lily telling Harry about it all. She didnt finger anyone specific, and in particular didnt try to draw a specific line of "Your inner Circle is Safe" vs "Your Inner Circle is Suspect". She just described a situation where innately Trust cannot survive, planting a hell of a powerful Seed of Distrust.
--- End quote ---
And the Mothers unwillingness to even name the Enemy helped to cement Harry's distrust.
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