The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Murphy in Peace Talks (WoJ spoilers)
raidem:
I think the one character that has the most potential in the way they play out is Murphy.
jonas:
--- Quote from: raidem on August 28, 2017, 02:31:49 AM ---I think the one character that has the most potential in the way they play out is Murphy.
--- End quote ---
I'd say Thomas, cause with the power he has, the way he's been described by Uriel and the totally two dynamically opposed personalities on display throughout the series leads to greater potential for either direction.
Murphy's been through hell, but she's never really changed in a dynamic one way or the other fashion. It's been a slow growth(or wearing down if you prefer) for her.
Mira:
--- Quote ---Murphy does not want to be a knight, she knows she is not suited for it. This however, does not disqualify her for the post of custodian. A custodian's duty is to keep the sword safe and deploy them should the custodian finds it nescesary, which Murphy do just fine. A KoTC's duty is to wield the sword in the name of Heaven and complete missions given to them by the office and under it's code, which Murphy has serious problem with.
--- End quote ---
But she totally failed to keep a Holy Sword safe... Yes, it is the custodian's duty to see that the Swords are kept safe and deployed properly in the hands of the right wielder... She totally failed, because after declaring why she shouldn't wield a Holy Sword, she chose to hide it and bring it along when she went with Harry.. Point, feeling the way she did, she wasn't the right person to wield a Sword.. Her personal feelings shouldn't enter into it.. You can state that as her excuse, but it still says she was a total failure...
--- Quote ---1. Harry is saved.
--- End quote ---
No, Harry was never in any real danger, it was a ploy by Nic to get her to attack him, so the Sword would be broken.. Nic still needed Harry to get to the weapons in the vault.. Even if he could squirm his way out of his agreement with Mab with some cock and bull story, he still wanted in the vault.. So no, he never intended to kill Harry.. So Murphy attacked to save Harry, but he only appeared to be in danger, in truth, he never was... Nic wasn't lying to her as he beat the shit out of her.
--- Quote ---2. Fid is broken in preparation for it's reforging to a more suitable form.
--- End quote ---
Only because of Harry's faith... Not hers, and if Harry had no faith and didn't chose to toss the hilt when he did, the Sword would still be broken.. Murphy didn't chose to break a Sword to make something better, no one knew that would happen.. It is a nice rationalization..
--- Quote ---As a knight, Murphy choose to attack Nick after he has surrendered. The consequences of her choice is:
1. Nick take the chance to break fid.
--- End quote ---
In my opinion she wasn't acting as a Knight... She brought the Sword, it reacted to Nic in a fight, it levels the playing field.. Just as it lit up on Harry's back on the island back in Small Favor, though Harry said at the time, he is no Knight. Murphy didn't take the Sword with her as a Knight, she just took it.
--- Quote ---2. She lost her qualifications to become a knight and the custodian.
--- End quote ---
She had the Swords in her possession, but she was never their custodian, there is a difference. She was qualified to be Knight that one night at C.I. I think if she is the one needed for the job and accepted, she could be a Knight again for the length of time needed..
--- Quote ---There are times when a custodian must make questionable choices. Harry using fid as a betting chip in book 10 is one example. A knight however are more strictly bound by their code.
--- End quote ---
But he knew enough than to try and wield it himself as a Knight or just as a wizard..
--- Quote ---Ask yourself this question. Why there is a need for a custodian in the firstplace? Why not just leave the holy sword in the hands of another knight?
--- End quote ---
Perhaps because they need to be kept in civilian hands, more free choices maybe.
--- Quote ---If what is needed in a custodian is the same as what is needed as a knight, Heaven should have just left fid in the hands of Michael when Shiro died.
--- End quote ---
But Heaven didn't, Fid was passed to Harry to keep until the right person came along.. Michael never questioned it, and in turn when he retired handed Am over to Harry as well..
--- Quote ---It is clear to me that a custodian is a strategic post which someone sneaky like Urieal created because a knight is far too rigid in their conduct and lacks flexibility in the face of unpredictable and fluctuating circumstances.
--- End quote ---
Something like that.
--- Quote ---Here is the mixed up. Failure as knight does not = failure as the custodian. A custodian and a KoTc are 2 separate post with 2 entirely different responsibilities, for example: we know Harry is a great custodian, but he definitely is not knight material.
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Actually we do not know that, as Con pointed out Harry did try to give Hannah a way out very much as a true Knight would.. However she rejected him choosing Lasciel and her vengence instead, and he had to kill her to save the mission.. He didn't judge her like Murphy judged Nic... If anything Harry felt guilt because he couldn't save her, and Michael had to get him to buck up...
Arjan:
--- Quote from: DonBugen on August 28, 2017, 12:25:28 AM ---Ok, now I'm trying to write with an iPad, and can't easily copy/paste. I could only bring in one copied chunk of text, and chose a book quote. Please forgive me for the awkwardness.
I think you're missing the point of the Knights.
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I think you missed the point of my post. Karen has never been optimal knight material and she knew it. It was not about how she should have acted as a knight, it was about picking up the sword in the first place.
And I say saving Harry was worth it.
--- Quote ---Michael has to run out with Dresden to save his pregnant wife from the Nightmare, and Father Forthill is miraculously there to babysit. Sanya confidently asserts that they will arrive at Chichen Itza in time despite being horribly behind schedule. Michael thanking God in Skin Game for never having to make the choices that Harry had to. There's always, always a choice. The choice might suck
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Exactly the point. That suck might mean your loved one is dead, you are dead, etc.
Their souls are saved and for Uriel that is the most important point but Karen took the sword to save a loved one.
And those choices were made after Murphy took the sword. I already said she was not knight material.
--- Quote --- - Shiro sacrificing himself (not his sword) for Dresden certainly did - but there's always a choice.
--- End quote ---
And sometimes that choice is accepting the consequences of you previous choices. That sentence can be quite meaningless.
--- Quote ---How did he break the rules? I don't see it.
--- End quote ---
By trying to save Butters from Nicodemus.
--- Quote ---So he wasn't all that helpful in the fight. You know how confusing fights might go. So his spell failed to kill Butters and knocked him into another yard. He was always a slippery little guy. Nick even acknowledges at the end that his threat to Dresden and attempt to kill him was just a ploy and therefore not a betrayal.
--- End quote ---
That is what he said after the fight. Nicodemus says what suits him. He could have said something different after killing Harry.
--- Quote ---Harry did not hurt Nick or Gen and complied with the orders given. While it's obvious that he's trying to work against Nicodemus, they stay within the letter of the law. If Gen were to kill him now, that would be a betrayal of Mab's trust.
Do you remember in the final battle in Skin Game, when Nicodemus grabs his wife's arm and prevents her from sending a spell in retaliation into Michaels yard? It's not just that the supernatural folk can't enter the yard; they can't penetrate it, even with magic, without risking the wrath of the guardian angels. Reaching magically into Michaels yard to pull out some cursed pocket change, I think, counts as crossing the boundary into the protected zone, and would mean that the Angels would be free to smite him.
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It is just calling the coin. According to Lasciel Harry could have done so through his walls and wards and concrete and circle and so on. I do not think the angels would have interfered, they would have interfered with his free willed choice to doom himself.
Arjan:
--- Quote from: peregrine on August 28, 2017, 01:29:50 AM ---Yes, but you see, Murphy.
--- End quote ---
Denarian skinwalker and leader of the black council? It was all Nemesis. Murphy never existed.
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