The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Murphy in Peace Talks (WoJ spoilers)
Mr. Death:
--- Quote from: Rasins on August 16, 2017, 07:26:28 PM ---WOW ... you guys sure do type a lot.
--- End quote ---
I do admit I get pretty verbose. I seem incapable of making a point without going into several paragraphs and at least one analogy.
Quantus:
--- Quote from: Mr. Death on August 16, 2017, 07:54:01 PM ---I do admit I get pretty verbose. I seem incapable of making a point without going into several paragraphs and at least one analogy.
--- End quote ---
Whereas I always feel lost without a whiteboard and at least three colors to explain myself... :P
Mira:
I think some are thinking that it is a right or a wrong with whether or not Murphy trust Harry totally.. It is clear that she doesn't... She may have had good reasons considering the Winter Mantle and all, but her not giving the Swords back to Harry and the issue of Bob, says she doesn't... End of story.. Harry gives into her because he completely trust her judgement.. He trusts her judgement so much that it makes him question everything about himself.
Again, her reasons for not trusting Harry may have been good, she still doesn't trust him as of Skin Game, because she still won't release the Swords to Harry's care, though their custody was something she took upon herself, yet she implies that it was handed to her by divine judgement, with a dig that she knows because she has faith and Harry doesn't. Now this doesn't make her a bad person, she may have been totally right not to completely trust Harry because of what he had been though... But while those issues remained, and they did up until the shattering of the Sword, love or no love, in spite of what she said to Butters about complete trust, Murphy did not completely trust Harry.. Either she was lying to Butters to make him feel better, or something worse.. She does trust Harry completely but has her own agenda.. It may not be all that sinister either, she may have wanted to keep control of the Swords because she felt that she was losing influence.
Mr. Death:
--- Quote from: Mira on August 16, 2017, 08:16:29 PM --- I think some are thinking that it is a right or a wrong with whether or not Murphy trust Harry totally.. It is clear that she doesn't... She may have had good reasons considering the Winter Mantle and all, but her not giving the Swords back to Harry and the issue of Bob, says she doesn't... End of story.. Harry gives into her because he completely trust her judgement.. He trusts her judgement so much that it makes him question everything about himself.
--- End quote ---
"End of story"?
So her actions in the rest of the book and in Skin Game don't count? That point locks Murphy's character development in place, and nothing she says or does afterward reflects any change in how much she trusts Dresden?
--- Quote ---Again, her reasons for not trusting Harry may have been good, she still doesn't trust him as of Skin Game, because she still won't release the Swords to Harry's care, though their custody was something she took upon herself, yet she implies that it was handed to her by divine judgement, with a dig that she knows because she has faith and Harry doesn't.
--- End quote ---
Harry doesn't ask for the Swords in Skin Game. She never once implies it was "handed to her by divine judgment," and her saying she has faith is not a "dig" at Harry.
The things you are saying here are simply not true.
--- Quote ---Now this doesn't make her a bad person, she may have been totally right not to completely trust Harry because of what he had been though... But while those issues remained, and they did up until the shattering of the Sword, love or no love, in spite of what she said to Butters about complete trust, Murphy did not completely trust Harry.. Either she was lying to Butters to make him feel better, or something worse.. She does trust Harry completely but has her own agenda.. It may not be all that sinister either, she may have wanted to keep control of the Swords because she felt that she was losing influence.
--- End quote ---
Just repeating "she doesn't trust Harry" doesn't make it true, and ignoring all the arguments against that assertion doesn't erase them. I asked you several questions and you're just not addressing them.
Yet again, you're accusing Murphy of not trusting Harry, and completely whitewashing Butters' roll in shattering the Sword.
Yet again, you are acting like the clear, obvious and explicit character development of both Murphy and Harry between the two books didn't happen.
Mira, I ask again: Why do you say nothing about Butters' distrust of Harry? Why do you exclusively target Murphy as if she is the only factor in the breaking of the Sword?
Mr. Death:
I have several questions I would like to see addressed. I've asked them a few times, nobody seems to have answered them.
A. Is nearly punching your friend and ally's head off because you're angry the proper behavior for a custodian of the Swords of the Cross?
B. Why is Butters exempt from any criticism for his clear distrust of Dresden, which directly led to the Sword being broken?
C. Why is Murphy slammed for hiding something from Dresden, while Dresden is not at all criticized for hiding information from Murphy? The information they're hiding is for the same reasons, and neither intended on telling the other that something was hidden.
D. How is Harry correct in his assessment that in his state of mind and situation he should give Bob back, but thirty seconds later, he's suddenly absolutely the right and only person who should have the Swords, which are just as important as Bob, and which are at greater risk?
E. Sanya, a Knight of the Cross, says that someone who is sure they should have the Swords is not someone who should have the Swords. Harry, in Cold Days, is sure he should have the Swords. Is Sanya wrong?
Someone please answer those. If Murphy is really at fault here, if she just distrusts Dresden and is just an arrogant manipulator only concerned with her own influence, then these questions shouldn't be hard to answer.
That they haven't yet sends a pretty clear message.
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