The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
What is a Saint? (Series Spoilers)
Mira:
--- Quote from: Quantus on June 19, 2017, 12:41:31 PM ---Are there any, specifically? I fully expect there to be some sort of empowered "Holy Man" in most if not all religions, but I cannot actually think of any specifically comparable to Saint (who is more an empowered champion than simply a Holy Man). My first thought was possibly a Buddha (as in the title) but that is a far more Internalized ascension, whereas my understanding of a Saint is fairly specifically Empowered by their deity.
--- End quote ---
Yeah, but what does Empowered mean exactly? I see no distinction between what you call an Internalized ascension and an external one, both would tell you they are Empowered by their deity to do or become whatever they have become..
Quantus:
--- Quote from: Mira on June 19, 2017, 01:03:43 PM ---Yeah, but what does Empowered mean exactly? I see no distinction between what you call an Internalized ascension and an external one, both would tell you they are Empowered by their deity to do or become whatever they have become..
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By "Internalized" I mean it's something that is 100% credited to the mortal themselves, as opposed to an investiture of Power from an external source. No deity is ever given credit for reaching a state of Buddha, that's considered the Mortal's accomplishment.
But I dont think we can go quite so far as to say any time a mortal gets Power from a NN source it qualifies them as "Saint". Saint cannot simply be a generic Powerup, otherwise a Coin or a Curse or Knight Mantle or a possessing Spirit would all qualify.
wyltok:
Like I said earlier, I'm kinda partial to assuming all pantheons play by the same rules, even if they appear to be playing different games. And there does appear to be some similarities to what happens to Knights of the Sword and what happens when one is ridden by a Loa in the Vodoun religion...
Quantus:
--- Quote from: wyltok on June 19, 2017, 02:13:24 PM ---Like I said earlier, I'm kinda partial to assuming all pantheons play by the same rules, even if they appear to be playing different games. And there does appear to be some similarities to what happens to Knights of the Sword and what happens when one is ridden by a Loa in the Vodoun religion...
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I agree with not making anything particularly specific to a given religion, but Im still not behind expanding the definition so far, to the point where it applies to anyone with some kind of spiritual significance, regardless of source or characteristics.
Mira:
--- Quote from: Quantus on June 19, 2017, 01:16:56 PM ---By "Internalized" I mean it's something that is 100% credited to the mortal themselves, as opposed to an investiture of Power from an external source. No deity is ever given credit for reaching a state of Buddha, that's considered the Mortal's accomplishment.
But I dont think we can go quite so far as to say any time a mortal gets Power from a NN source it qualifies them as "Saint". Saint cannot simply be a generic Powerup, otherwise a Coin or a Curse or Knight Mantle or a possessing Spirit would all qualify.
--- End quote ---
Yes, I agree that the term "saint" has to be applied with more discretion, however I disagree about what you are saying about the holy men who attain the title or state of Buddha..
--- Quote ---I agree with not making anything particularly specific to a given religion, but Im still not behind expanding the definition so far, to the point where it applies to anyone with some kind of spiritual significance, regardless of source or characteristics
--- End quote ---
Then just what are you saying? With in the Dresden universe, keeping to that for a moment, we've known five Holy Sword holders, Shiro, Sanya, Murphy, Michael, and the latest, Butters, by your definition of sainthood, of these five, who is likely to be one? Since he is the only one of the ones we've known that has died, do you think Shiro will be declared one or is an undeclared one?
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