The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
What is a Saint? (Series Spoilers)
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Ive long wondered about the Nature of a Saint in the DF. We have three mentions of Saints in WOJ. One that St George is in fact responsible for the rarity of lesser dragons in modern times, one that says they were one possible example of a Champion of the mortal masses (listed along "an independent wizard, or a shaman, a Knight of the Cross or some other champion, or other spiritual allies"). The last is confirmation that one of Vadderung names (mantles?) is Saint Nicholas, along with other various versions of santa (kringle, Sinterklaas, Father Christmas).
In common usage (as I know it), a Saint is somebody that is holy and/or chosen by God, which the Church eventually recognizes. That's an important distinction, I think, because the Church does not claim to actually make anyone a Saint, nor do they consider the known Saints to be a complete list (the idea is that a bunch of anonymous Saints would be revealed during the Second Coming/Revelations). So while the RL process for Saints cannot be completed until after the person's death, there is no theological conflict with them having Saintly abilities in life, as would be indicated by them acting as living Champions.
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2009 WoJ forum post
4. if the elders of the black court could have taken mab, then HOW ON EARTH did any mere force of humans manage to go up and stake them? i mean, they should've wiped out anything that was coming after them if they can take on MAB herself...just a thought
Power in the spirit world isn't the same thing as power in the material world. And a one-on-thirtyish fight (Mab vs the elders of the BC) is WAY different than a one-on-20,000 fight (a BC vampire against a modest mortal city). Especially when the 20,000 know what your weaknesses are, and how to kill you with them. Smiley And that's assuming that you don't have a saint, or an independent wizard, or a shaman, a Knight of the Cross or some other champion, or other spiritual allies on your side which was not uncommon. Hell, for that matter, you might well be aided by vampires from the other Courts. *Everyone* resented how powerful the Blacks had become.
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2009 WoJ forum post:
6. ferrovax - is this because he's the OLDEST dragon? (i thought it was an empty boast) or because he's a dragon?
Ferrovax feels absolutely no need to boast. It's because he /is/ a Dragon, large D, an elemental force of the cosmos. He isn't some kind of Smaug hanging around a nice apartment. He's a Dragon in a more Asian sense of the concept, a semi-divine being who was once given authority over various portions of the mortal universe, and who was responsible for their orderly procession. There /are/ Smauglike dragons (though not nearly as many now as there have been in the past, thanks George!) but they are essentially nothing but emissaries and servitors created in the image of the real thing.
Regardless of big D or little d, dragons almost universally resent humanity for usurping the balance of power in the world.
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Vadderung is Santa Claus, is he also St Nicholas?
And Father Christmas and Sinterklaas and a variety of others. But in our modern era, a lot of people wear multiple hats on the job.
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Teslas Shadow:
Saint Patrick was also mentioned as having used the Loup Garou curse.
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--- Quote from: Teslas Shadow on June 06, 2017, 06:55:06 PM ---Saint Patrick was also mentioned as having used the Loup Garou curse.
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True, Id forgotten that actual text mention, thanks. Grain of salt on that one is that the context of the mention was a Demon placing blame for a centuries-old murderous Curse on said famous Saint, and several forumites over the years have expressed skepticism given the infernal source. Hell, harry expresses skepticism for the same reason.
--- Quote from: FM Ch. 11 --- Chauncy smiled, a rather intimidating expression. "MacFinn is a member of an ancient family line from an island known as Ireland. His family has a notable history. Sometime in the murky past, legend would have it, the man known as Saint Patrick cursed his ancestor to become a ravening beast at every full moon. The curse came with two addenda. First, that it would be hereditary, passing down to someone new each and every generation. And second, that the cursed line of the family would never, ever die out, lasting until the end of days."
I wrote that down as well. "A Catholic saint did that?"
Chauncy made a sound of distaste. "I am not responsible for the sorts of people the Other Side employs, wizard. Or the tactics they use."
"Considering the source, I think I'll note it as a biased opinion. Your folk have done a thousand times worse," I said.
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groinkick:
Hrmmm Maybe Saints are wizards who specialize in faith based magic to the point it's the only form of magic they practice and therefor aren't actually part of the White Council?
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--- Quote from: groinkick on June 06, 2017, 08:15:49 PM ---Hrmmm Maybe Saints are wizards who specialize in faith based magic to the point it's the only form of magic they practice and therefor aren't actually part of the White Council?
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Interesting notion. We've been told repeatedly that Harry is pretty far on the Magic=Science end of the spectrum and that not all on the Council see it that way. But despite that there is a qualitative difference between Magic and Faith energy by all accounts, so I wonder if a practitioner of a more Faith-based tradition would be distinct enough to be left separate by the mostly draft-based Council.
I mean, LTW seems to have a lot more faith mixed into his style, but he's not an actual priest of his people (near as I could tell by the exchange with Shaggy).
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